In the recent Joker/Daffy Duck comic (Side Note: The latest batch of DC/WB crossovers are neither especially good or especially bad), there's a scene in which the Joker kills the patrons of a comedy club and has his gang take their stuff (Another Side Note: Who in the Blue Hell would go to a comedy club in Gotham City? That's just asking for trouble!), and this scene inspired in me a sudden realization.

Now, I'll say up front that I'm sure I'm not the first person to have this realization (or the tenth, or the hundredth, or the thousandth...), it's just something that I never really thought about all that much before.

Anyway, the great realization was this:  

There's no (expletive gerund omitted) way that someone wouldn't have killed the Joker by now.  Victim's grieving relative, vigilante, fed-up cop, "accident in the cells", a villain who's sick of the Joker's crap - someone would have wasted him by now.   I can no longer sustain my suspension of disbelief as regards this character.

 

Views: 513

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

I've said this once or twice before, but on Earth ClarkKent_DC, "No Man's Land" ended like this:

After Commissioner Gordon shot The Joker in the kneecaps, Harvey Bullock took the gun from him and shot The Joker full of holes. 

That's exactly what I wish would have happened too. You know what? That's Earth Sensei's version, too.

ClarkKent_DC said:

I've said this once or twice before, but on Earth ClarkKent_DC, "No Man's Land" ended like this:

After Commissioner Gordon shot The Joker in the kneecaps, Harvey Bullock took the gun from him and shot The Joker full of holes. 

That reminds me a bit of the Punisher origin story where he more or less wittingly made a deal with Death, whereby Death protects Frank while Frank sends a lor of business the Reaper's way.

Randy Jackson said:

Well, just remember, you asked for it...

The Joker didn't exist until Bruce Wayne decided to become Batman. There was no life before he began his career as the Red Hood.  He was created by the Lords of Chaos specifically to oppose Batman, and Batman is the only one who can kill him. Many have tried and failed, with the Joker either healing miraculously, or evading the attempt and exacting retribution on whomever has made the attempt.

So that's my personal headcanno for why no one else has killed the Joker--it's not from lack of trying.

The Baron said:

And?

Randy Jackson said:

I have a pet theory about this, but it's pretty out there.

Thinking about my issue with the Joker led me to think about my overall problem with most DC/Marvel super-hero comics, generally, which is that the characters seldom achieve any kind of more than superficial long-term growth.  It's like they're all trapped in a sort of Hell, forced to live iterations of the same lives over and over again, with any kind of growth or change in their lives periodically re-set. 

This is what I call "losing the narrative." Both Marvel and DC had more or less cohesive universes with legitimate growth -- albeit incremental -- from the beginning of the Silver Age through about the mid-'80s. Then both of them threw that away (DC all at once, Marvel piecemeal) so that now we just see 3- or 4-year cycles before starting over.

The Baron said:

Thinking about my issue with the Joker led me to think about my overall problem with most DC/Marvel super-hero comics, generally, which is that the characters seldom achieve any kind of more than superficial long-term growth.  It's like they're all trapped in a sort of Hell, forced to live iterations of the same lives over and over again, with any kind of growth or change in their lives periodically re-set. 

I don't know how I missed the news item, but I just found out that a stand-alone Joker movie will be released next year, independent from the Suicide Squad sequel.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/joker-origin-pic-land...

Looking through the Joker's past, thanks to my Encyclopedia of Comic Book Heroes Vol. 2: Batman, he died quite often, usually falling from a great height, drowning or both. At first, they would explain his survival, or at least try to. Eventually they stopped that so the Joker would "die" at the end of the story and would "get better" by the next one. In essence, he would reboot himself, possibly forgetting what he did previously or not remembering it clearly. He would still recall his hatred/dependency for Batman and the cycle would begin anew. 

Or his madness gets more and more out of control, reaching a murderous crescendo where his insanity burns himself out but he can revive himself at a "lower" setting which again restarts the cycle.

One of the basic problems of most super-hero universes is that If super-humans had started appearing in number around, say, 1938, then by 2018 society would be unrecognizable. Because most super-hero continuities tend to mirror our "real" world, they can't accurately reflect the way that the confirmed existence of aliens, magic, super-science and mythical beings would change the way people live. Superman by his mere existence would disrupt the world order.

The Baron said:

Superman by his mere existence would disrupt the world order.

The point Alan Moore made in Watchmen. The existence of a single super-powered individual, Dr. Manhattan, changed the world in numerous ways. If there were hundreds, forget it 

On a side note, I saw a Doctor Manhattan/Ozymandias action figure double-pack at my local today, but they wanted fifty bucks for it.
   
Richard Willis said:

The Baron said:

Superman by his mere existence would disrupt the world order.

The point Alan Moore made in Watchmen. The existence of a single super-powered individual, Dr. Manhattan, changed the world in numerous ways. If there were hundreds, forget it 

The Baron said:

One of the basic problems of most super-hero universes is that If super-humans had started appearing in number around, say, 1938, then by 2018 society would be unrecognizable. Because most super-hero continuities tend to mirror our "real" world, they can't accurately reflect the way that the confirmed existence of aliens, magic, super-science and mythical beings would change the way people live. Superman by his mere existence would disrupt the world order.

Marvel did a series (or tried to) where they showed what the world would look like if Reed Richards and Tony Stark and Henry Pym released their inventions to the world in the 1960s. I say "tried to" because the series, Big Town, wasn't anywhere close to where my own speculation would take us. And it wasn't very plausible. In fact, I didn't know the intent of the series until years later, because it missed the mark so badly. But at least they tried.

On the DC side, several characters -- like Batman -- continued to deny the existence of magic in their own books while dealing with it routinely in Justice League and so forth. It made them look like fools if you read the whole line.

That more or less ended in 2011, but even still, Batman still scoffs when someone suggests magic in Detective or Batman.

Captain Comics said:

On the DC side, several characters -- like Batman -- continued to deny the existence of magic in their own books while dealing with it routinely in Justice League and so forth. It made them look like fools if you read the whole line.

That more or less ended in 2011, but even still, Batman still scoffs when someone suggests magic in Detective or Batman.

My ever-hazy memory does cling to something I never forgot once I saw it*: Batman was up against a villain called Doctor Tzin-Tzin, a wannabe Fu Manchu who uses mysticism as misdirection. As he and Alfred prepare a trap, Alfred says surely you don't believe in things like the power to put people in trances.

Batman's reply: "Belief is unnecessary, Alfred. Things work or they don't! Does electricity depend on your belief in it?"

* It was in Batman #284 (February 1977). I just spent way too much time looking it up.

Reply to Discussion

RSS

Welcome!

No flame wars. No trolls. But a lot of really smart people.The Captain Comics Round Table tries to be the friendliest and most accurate comics website on the Internet.

SOME ESSENTIALS:

RULES OF THE ROUND TABLE

MODERATORS

SMILIES FOLDER

TIPS ON USING THE BOARD

FOLLOW US:

OUR COLUMNISTS:

Groups

© 2018   Captain Comics, board content ©2013 Andrew Smith   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service