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"They're raping my childhood" begins in 3..2..

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Here’s what I’d like to see: in a reversal of Stan Lee’s announcement which indicated Pinky Pinkerton was gay (with no previous story evidence to support it), I’d like to see DC make an official announcement that Alan Scott is gay, and then move forward with no story evidence to support it.

In today's Daily News, under the headline "Gay Power" (in Superman's font no less), Alan Scott of the Earth 2 title is proclaimed gay, complete with boyfriend. James Robinson ststed it was because the DCnU "erased" the original Green Lantern's openly gay son Obsidian from existence that the decision was made to have the new, younger version of Scott be gay. Of course, Obsidian's sexuality was changed in an earlier reboot.

There is a picture of the new/old Green Lantern and he is "flaming"! Sorry but he is!

And there is a boycott of the book planned by the One Million Moms who are surprisingly against this because, as we all know, reading about gay people, nay even knowing they exist or have existed is enough to make any child gay!

Meh.

I also hear Peter Parker shoots webs from inside his wrists, Steve Rogers is now called Captain Nomad and Barry Allen got his powers from a space gnome.

"Here’s what I’d like to see: in a reversal of Stan Lee’s announcement which indicated Pinky Pinkerton was gay (with no previous story evidence to support it), I’d like to see DC make an official announcement that Alan Scott is gay, and then move forward with no story evidence to support it."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Actually, I kind of suspected this all along.  Especially after the Howlers parody where Pinky hooks his bumbershoot handle onto a passing plane taking off, and drags the rest of the Howlers along into the air.  The footnote, which I still recall, read, "This actually happened in real life once.  Morners may call at the Eternal Rest funeral home."

Anyway, I'm not so shocked by this.  Besides, what prior story evidence would you need for something like this? Pinky in bed with Sgt Fury?  Just what was Marvel supposed to have printed to establish this? And why would they want to in the 60s?



Jeff of Earth-J said:

Here’s what I’d like to see: in a reversal of Stan Lee’s announcement which indicated Pinky Pinkerton was gay (with no previous story evidence to support it), I’d like to see DC make an official announcement that Alan Scott is gay, and then move forward with no story evidence to support it.

because they're fictional characters who don't exist and don't have sex lives.

They're being fictional is kind of beside the point, unless you're saying that nothing we talk about here matters. In that case, whether they're gay or not is as important (or not) as every other thread where we discuss people who don't exist. 

I would say that whether *I* am gay doesn't matter to the board, even though I'm not fictional, but whether a comics character was gay could matter to his storyline. But in the DCU, I doubt it ever will, unless it's a marketing gimmick. These guys don't do much thinking about, much less bedding, of any significant others. Their preferences in mates doesn't come up or affect what we see of their lives, so big deal.

In a few cases it comes up and makes a difference. Or did, pre-Nu52. Superman was married, and I don't think Hawkman was hanging around Hawkgirl because she was his BFF. For many, we'd have to take their word for it, if it came up, which it didn't, because so few of them took the time to have actual outside lives that we would care about.

The most recent version of Saturn Girl and Cosmic Boy were straight, as we saw Saturn Girl wake up in bed with Cos and regret what she'd just done. I don't think she was eating crackers. In regards to Levitz's storyline, I think it did matter that they had sex lives. I think it was pretty inappropriate, but that's another story.

But you gotta love these news stories that are trumpeting this huge news. GL is gay! But no, not THAT GL, this is an alternative universe guy who used to be a 70-year-old character who had a son who was gay but now has been rebooted so he's too young to have a gay son so he's gay himself but hasn't actually appeared in a comic before! Run out and get a copy of that!

-- MSA

Kirk G said:

Anyway, I'm not so shocked by this.  Besides, what prior story evidence would you need for something like this? Pinky in bed with Sgt Fury?  Just what was Marvel supposed to have printed to establish this? And why would they want to in the 60s?

 

Those who insist that Percy Pinkerton was not originally intended to be gay---as Stan claimed Pinkerton was, in his 2002 interview with Andrea Sheldon Lafferty---aren't basing their argument on the fact that there were no scenes in the original Fury stories showing Pinkerton doing something explicitly or implicitly homosexual.  Rather, they are saying that Pinkerton was shown acting in a heterosexual manner---trolling for female company when on furlough in London, like all the other Howlers, and that sort of thing.  The most telling example of that, as I mentioned, being the story "The Man Who Failed", which showed Pinkerton to be an inveterate wolf and womaniser during his military-school days.

 

Again, as I also stated before, those who fall into the "Yes, Pinkerton was meant to be gay all along" camp can rationalise those scenes away.  (For that matter, someone could accuse any man on Earth as being gay, and any public indications to the contrary would be explained away as him "posing as a straight man.")

 

Also again, as I stated, it really doesn't matter.

 

Personally, I think Pinkerton was meant to be an analogue to actor David Niven, and at the time, no thought at all was given to the possibility that he was or might be a homosexual.  The idea was that he was a well-bred English gentlemen among the other, more-grizzled, rough-hewn Howlers.  And, frankly, I believe that Stan, in that interview, was simply doing an ad hoc bit of character revision when he claimed that Pinkerton was meant to be gay all along, which I also believe Stan thought would be a good bit of PR for Marvel.  He probably didn't even recall "The Man Who Failed", or if he did, figured the modern public wouldn't know about the story, or even care.

 

But that's only what I believe.  I might be wrong.  Maybe Stan did, indeed, intend Pinkerton to be gay 'way back when.  As you said, Kirk, the writers could scarcely put some overt scene in a 1965 comic-book establishing such.  Or maybe Stan didn't intend Pinkerton to be gay when the character was introduced, but came up with the notion a few years later.  Or maybe Stan, at the time of the interview, couldn't remember exactly what was going through his head at the time he created Pinkerton and genuinely believed that Pinkerton was gay.

 

But, none of it matters.  For those who insist that Pinkerton was heterosexual in the '60's, then they are free to reject any subsequent revisions---as any fan is free to do of any character.  For those who like the idea that Pinkerton was gay all along, they are free to glom on to what Stan said in 2002.  As Mr. Poague said, these are fictional characters---if your son or brother or best buddy comes to you and says that he's gay, then it's a fact, whether you like it or not, but with fictional characters, no-one is forced to accept a later development about a character that he doesn't like.  One simply ignores it and holds on to his personal interpretation of the character.

 

That's why fan uproar over "How could DC (or Marvel) do this to such a beloved character?!" always makes me scratch my head.

Well said, Commander Benson...  I suspect Stan DOESN'T REMEMBER details, but is willing to promote for Marvel whatever is the notion of PC or the issue of the day...

Now, does anyone know which issue number this "The Man Who Failed" story was in?  How much is it going for?

I'm tempted to go dig it out or at least price it on ebay with an eye toward reading it, now that we're discussing it.

Kirk G said:

Now, does anyone know which issue number this "The Man Who Failed" story was in?

 

Sgt. Fury and His Howling Commandos # 23 (Oct., 1965).

 

Son of a gun!   Not only do I recall the cover as one of the first that I had seen on the spinner rack... but also, I have the Marvel Masterworks Vol. 2 that ends with that story, and I'm going to  have to break it out and read it tonight.  Thanks guys!

 

Looks like it was also reprinted in #125... but I don't know if pages were dropped or what kind of shape the story might be  in. The cover is mainly white, not blue in tone... I can tell that much from ebay listings.

I'll read the Masterworks version tonight, and see what I can ad to the discussion, tomorrow...

Xena and Gabrielle would be different, since their show frequently hinted they might be a couple.

Mark S. Ogilvie said:

  As to Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman being outed... that'd be a bit like Kirk and Spock and/or Xena and Gabrielle being outed, it's out there on the net already.

Will this Lantern still hang with a Doiby Dickles? Because I don't think I could stand the amount of sub-juvenile humor that would draw out online.

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