Hey all... just wanted to put anyone who cares on the alert that DC Rebirth spoilers have been leaked on Reddit, and they're starting to show up other places. I've seen reference to them on Bleeding Cool, and I think Newsarama has a list up, and I think IGN has something up too. So far, I haven't seen anything leaked in headlines and I don't know what the leaks are, but I just wanted everyone to know that they're out there. So be on your guard.

(Newsarama also has a spoiler-free review up which I skimmed... but looked very positive.)

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Wow! I read through the leaks. Civil War II suddenly seems pretty insignificant.

I'm not a reddit user, and a casual search of reddit.com was unproductive. Can you guide me to what you're talking about?



Captain Comics said:

I'm not a reddit user, and a casual search of reddit.com was unproductive. Can you guide me to what you're talking about?


Spoilers here

Sounds like the way Marvel got rid of Heroes Reborn and revived 616. The Atom seems stuck in the same place the Ant-Man movie stuck the Wasp. We may be seeing a lot more "sub-atomica" stories from both companies for awhile. Good to see Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman again looking like themselves instead of fans playing them.


Detective 445 said:



Captain Comics said:

I'm not a reddit user, and a casual search of reddit.com was unproductive. Can you guide me to what you're talking about?


Spoilers here

Thanks, 'Tec. I found a megathread on Reddit yesterday that collated all the spoilers from Newsarama, IGN and Bleeding Cool as a header -- and today that header is gone! All that's left is the actual discussion, which is just a bunch of fans whining or making bad jokes (as fans do). I can still find some Newsarama spoilers if I poke around, and maybe I'd find the others with some hunting, but just the same it's good that you linked to IGN since it doesn't appear to be available on Reddit any more.

I'm going to be writing about this tonight -- it's due today, and I'm going to run a little past deadline -- so I'd like to have a genuine discussion that looks ahead to what you guys think these reveals will mean, or how the play out, or just some whining and bad jokes ( photo tongue.gif).

So let's take the chocks off and use actual proper nouns and spoil away. Anyone who doesn't want to be spoiled shouldn't be this far into the thread anyway.

For those who want 'em, here's our Spoiler tag:

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Okay, well....

There's a lot of this that doesn't interest me. I didn't even know Kid Flash had gone missing. And I really enjoy the New 52 JLA book so I'm not really clamoring for the return of older versions of those heroes.

From a logistics standpoint I am intersted in seeing how Johns goes about the reboot or return of previous continuity because I think he usually does a good job with that type of story.  And I really want to read new (and hopefully good) JSA and Legion stories.

So the elephant in the room; Incorporating the Watchmen into the DCU could be fascinating or it could be a colossal blunder.  The immediate story potential is obviously there and there's no way I can stay away from, for example, a Batman/Rorscach team up.  But it just seems like something that could go south quickly if the writers are not very careful. And of course Alan Moore is going to be pissed no matter what. But still, I have to read those stories.

And I still wonder (as I did after Convergence) what the heck is going to be done with Grant Morrison's Multiversity concepts. He did his own take on Watchmen via the Charlton heroes and I really was hoping to see more of them.


  AMEN


Detective 445 said:

 And I really want to read new (and hopefully good) JSA and Legion stories.

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I went to a midnight release party, and read it as soon as I got home. I was so happy to see Wally again. I had my doubts about bringing him back to the DCU -- I want to give the new Wally West space to thrive. But the idea that they’re cousins is so simple that I think it can work without crowding either Wally out. (I was very worried that they’d be saddled with otherdimensional rigamorole; instead, they’re family, nice and simple.)

I’m glad they had Linda not recognize him. She has no presence in the New52, so her bringing him home wouldn’t have any impact for current fans. And it made it even more important that  Barry recognized Wally; I really choked up.

But other cool thigs: The promise of the JSA! The appearance of a Legionnaire (presumably Saturn Girl). And then the ID of the otherdimensional incursion -- what’s bound to be the most controversial part of the book. 

OK, I can haz read it.  This is where the real spoilers begin. I know we've got a spoiler warning now, but I'm adding some extra spoiler space here, anyway, with a picture of Larry Fine:

DO NOT READ BELOW IF YOU HAVEN'T READ REBIRTH YET AND INTEND TO DO SO.

OK, so the pre-Flashpoint Wally West has been trapped in the Phantom Negative Speed Force Bleed Void Limbo Zone, and is trying to return to reality.  He is aware that some unknown force has stolen ten years form the DCU. He reaches out to Batman (who sees three Jokers), Johnny Thunder (who's in a nursing home where no one believes his tales of WWII-era super-heroes, and witnesses someone with a Legion flight ring (Imra?) being interrogated, Ray Palmer reaching out from the microverse to recruit Ryan Choi (Ray has  also detected shenanigans occurring) and Ted Kord trying to enthuse Jaime Reyes about being the Blue Beetle. Doc Fate tries to warn Ted off of messing with the Scarab. We also see Damina Wayne turning 13, Hal recruiting the new female GL whose name escapes me at the moment and a young black gay man named Jackson (Who is he?) who seems fascinated by fish, The purple woman form the DC crossover that I didn't read is killed in much the way that Rorschach was.  Someone named Diana (Prince?) has a twin brother called Jason (Voorhees?).  A bunch of heroes are gathered at a spot where a hero (Superman?) has died.   Wally laments that Ollie and Dinah aren't are close as they used to be - apparently, the world has lost love.  Alternate Superman is confronted by a mysterious "Mr.Oz", who tells him things aren't what they seem.  Arthur proposes to Mera.  Wally finds Linda Park, who doesn't remember him. Elsewhere, Gotham waits for his time and John Constantine and the Swamp Thing go on about something.  Disheartened, Wally seeks out Captain Boomerang, Vic and Dick, before encountering the Nu52 Kid Flash, who is his cousin by the same name. Finally, he seeks out Barry to say goodbye, but Barry remembers him and pull shim out into the world. Elsewhere, Bruce finds the Comedian's button embedded in the Batcave wall.  We end with dialogue between Adrian and Doctor Manhattan from Watchmen.


Overall:  It's an interesting story in and of itself. I was never a big Wally West mark (If they ever bring back the real Jay Garrick, that will be another thing entirely.), but I imagine it's nice for fans of his. As for the apparent reveal that Doctor Manhattan is behind it all, well, the cynical part of me imagines a meeting in the DC offices, "You know, we haven't done enough to piss off Alan Moore lately. Get on that." The fanboy part of me thinks it's out of character for the erstwhile Osterman as I remember him. Still, we haven't got all the facts, yet.

In the end, it is a story that promises much. What it will deliver remains to be seen.

I can help! I can help! Lemme help! (I can haz read it, too, and have written a column I'll post tomorrow.)

Hal recruiting the new female GL whose name escapes me at the moment

Who is Jessica Cruz, Alex.

and a young black gay man named Jackson (Who is he?) who seems fascinated by fish

The black Aqualad who replaced Garth when he went mystical in the pre-Flashpoint continuity

The purple woman form the DC crossover that I didn't read is killed in much the way that Rorschach was.

Pandora. she kicked off The new 52, and now she's ending it.

Someone named Diana (Prince?) has a twin brother called Jason (Voorhees?).  

Evidently Wonder Woman has a twin brother. Could be Jason of Jason of the Argonauts, but that seems a bit obvious.

A bunch of heroes are gathered at a spot where a hero (Superman?) has died.

Yep, Superman

Wally laments that Ollie and Dinah aren't are close as they used to be - apparently, the world has lost love.

Arrow and Canary didn't even know each other in The New 52. Glad to see that un-done.

Alternate Superman is confronted by a mysterious "Mr.Oz", who tells him things aren't what they seem.

OK, I do NOT know who Mr. Oz is. 'Tis a puzzlement.

Arthur proposes to Mera.  

They were de-married in The New 52.

"You know, we haven't done enough to piss off Alan Moore lately. Get on that."

HAHAHAHA *snort* HAHAHAHAHA!

The fanboy part of me thinks it's out of character for the erstwhile Osterman as I remember him. Still, we haven't got all the facts, yet.

True, and my default position is to agree. OTOH, he was losing his humanity toward the end of Watchmen, and it kinda depends on how you interpret these scenes, from Watchmen #12 and Before Watchmen: Dr. Manhattan #4:

Is this not (and no I havern't seen if we see anything of the person themselves) Ozymadias from Watchmen also..?

(Or were you being ironic..?)
 
Captain Comics said:

OK, I do NOT know who Mr. Oz is. 'Tis a puzzlement.

I wasn't being ironic. Ozymandias is a pretty good guess, since the only clue we really have is the name.

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