Richard Mantle said:
Did they somehow collaborate really closely?
They look like everyone was the same scale and Gyrich is the same height compared to the table and so on.
At first I thought that was John Belushi.
Jeff of Earth-J said:
At first I thought that was John Belushi.
I thought the same thing.
I wonder if the cover might have been better if it was one of the wrap around covers, both front and back?
I'm sure he would have been the first to leave. And probably make Gyrich hate superheroes even more as he trashed the place while leaving. There was a drawing somewhere of everyone that had ever been an Avenger that crowded the drawing. At one end of the picture the Hulk proclaimed "Bah! Hulk quit again!" Some people don't like crowds.
Did Captain Marvel still have a series at that time? Why didn't he ever join the team?
Philip Portelli said:
It's a bit of a cheat as no one thought that the Guardians, Captain Marvel, Hercules, Moondragon, Black Widow, Ms. Marvel and Quicksilver were going to stay.
And Thor, Black Panther and Jocasta were iffy at best!
Good thing that the Hulk wasn't invited!
Then again, poor Hulk!
“Vicarious self-actualization transferal.” I got a lot of mileage out of that phrase over the years.
#181 is, in fact, the first appearance of Scott Lang.
My favorite scene of this issue is the roll call. (“…and lastly—the Falcon!” “The… WHAT?!”) A few issues from now, someone will protest the removal of Hawkeye from the roster. Michelinie (or whoever was handling the letter col that month) then pointed out that Hawkeye has remained a character and had, in fact, been in every issue since.
“Was this four-part run writer David Michelinie's finest hour?”
On Avengers, perhaps, but I think he achieved his finest on Iron Man. (On which specific issues is a matter up for debate.)
On the bright side if Clint hadn't been thrown out by Gyrich he never would have gotten the job of head of security at Cross (I think that was the name) and he sort of grew with that responsibility.
Out of all the "Old Order Changeth" stories, Avengers #181 is my second favorite, with the original in #16 being the best of the bunch for being so ground-breaking. The first time, smack dab in the prime of the Silver Age, you just didn't do what Stan and Jack did. All the original team was gone and the new recruits they left Cap with weren't even heroes yet! Here in the midst of the Bronze Age, they play it a lot safer; as pointed out in a previous post, this is the same as the new line-up unveiled in #151, except we (will) have the Falcon in place of Yellowjacket. But this is a watershed issue because the Avengers will now always have the government lingering over their shoulders, a new status quo that really wasn't there before. It won't always be the abrasive Gyrich, but to use a well-worn cliche, things would never be the same again.
The strength of the story is the characterization bits - Hank and Simon bonding, and even little things like Jarvis preparing a snack for the Guardians. It's aided so well by John Byrne's artwork - I agree with Richard, Byrne is in his prime here.
I'm learning load os things I never realised as I re-read these issues - for instance, I've never really liked this cover but never really knew why it just doesn't seem to work or to fit in with those around it - now I know why....Al Milgrom is a passable artist - but he's not up to the stellar quality of Perez and Byrne that we're being treated to these days. (Although #184 is much better- so I'm going to blame this cover's dullness on inker Bob Layton(?))
The composition is not up to much either but the sort of scratchy inking is probably the reason I'm unhappy - and the lack of a central threat.
What is wonderful is the art inside, Klaus Janson inking John Byrne is more moody than Gene Day was last issue and there is a cinematic feel from the splash page which depicts Dr Don Blake explaining to the team that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch who lie prone before us are comatose ..."almost as though ...someone had stolen their souls"
Hawkeye remarks on , "Geez, what a cold fish!" the Vision is, as the android carries on without emotion. (no great surprise to Hawkeye surely but presumably thrown in for the new(er) reader.)
The Wasp also fills in some blanks explaining that the mystery remains a mystery because most of the guys that could have solved it quickly - have left without helping out. "It's too bad Captain Marvel and the rest of the Cosmic clan had to leave. Maybe they could have sensed something." (Call them back! They are NOT busy!)
Jocasta offers to use her abilities to help out leading to one of her best (very few) moments as she faces Gyrich's bigotry and puts him down in a sassy classic exchange,
"Hey! I thought this tin woman was just a tropgy or something! If she's intelligent, she has to have Security Clearance!"
"Really, Mr Gyrich, has the government become so paranoid that it requires security passes for mere machines?"
This seemed to signpost some likely character evolvement for Jocasta but it never really happened did it?
So, despite the team announced last issue, it's a different combination of Avengers that leave the mansion and leave Wonder Man on monitor duty.
There is a school of thinking that for official monitor duty Wondy had to be an Avenger and so this signifies his first official membership of the team...I don't agree, he's filling in as a friend/ally unofficially here - his signing up for membership comes in a later issue. (Honest)
We catch back up with Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch as their 'souls' seem to be inhabiting small toy/marionettes caged and watched over by the mysterious old man we've been tracking recently.
Wanda reminds everyone that despite this guy's claims, they are the children of the Whizzer and Miss America but this man, Django Maximoff, relates his tale of gypsies and family - specifically his son Mateo (speedster) and daughter Ana (magic adept). After battles with locals they lost touch with each other and Django grew old alone as a toymaker.
Via a sideways continuity link to Spider-Woman #12 and through Avengers #16 we race to the present day where - utilising a strange talisman he has kept with him - he has reunited with those he believes to be his children.
Yes, it's convoluted and no I cannot explain why writer Michelinie felt their origins needed re-examination but Wanda tries to assure us all it's a misunderstanding...
"It's all coincidence, don't you see--?"
The Avengers arrive and Django sets animated mannequins on them . Don't think about it too much - it's all magic okay.
The Avengers dispatch these fairly easily, realising they are not real - a nice moment for the Wasp too and it is beginning to seem like our heroes vastly outpower our 'villain'....until Iron Man opens the door on the..."-- unexpected...?"
At that point the threat level gets ramped up and the team are into Doctor Strange territory, (wonderful door to chaos panel.) as a young Django conjures up his own magical versions of the Toad, Princess Python and....Nighthawk.
"Huh? Nighthawk! B-but he's one of the good guys!"
I don't see any explanation for why these three characters are used here or why they are skewed versions of themselves either and it does feel strange - why would Django have any knowledge at all of someone like Nightnawk?
With his guest shot in the Korvac build-up and his kind-of appearance here, I really was wondering if the writers were building towards Nighthawk joing the Avengers
(Was this use of the Toad - with the only (first) depiction of 'that tongue' the influence for the Toad's appearance in the first X-Men film?)
The Vision suffers at the mystical hands of Princess Python who acts more like the Enchantress than Python and famously (?) there are two versions of his 'reaction' panel.
In one he has tendrills bursting out of his eyes and mouth and in the other he has no such blemishes - the hallucination is for the reader to realise in his mind only. I can't see why it was deemed worthy of censoring personally.
(I have both versions - and I probably prefer the mind-only one)
Iron Man literally throwing the kitchen sink at the enemies and the Beast hearing the neighbours shouting draws the Avengers out of the illusions and old man Maximoff tries to escape with his toy 'children'.
The Vision intervenes, (contrasting his andoid emotionless being with Jocasta's sense of fun earlier) " What...have...you...done to...My WIFE?" and with Wanda blaming the talisman he destroys the stone -- which reverts everyone to normal
This stone thingy is never mentioned again in all the rejigging of the origin tales.
The epilogue shows Wanda and Pietro back in their bodies and intent on smoothing Django's delusions by accompanying him to their home country.
Curiously there is no sign here that the siblings actually believe Maximoff's claims of parenthood, rather they are going along with him to be nice and compasionate.
Wanda's 'leave of absence' means that the team roster announced by Gyrich last issue - still is not going to be the imminent line-up...and we haven't even seen the Falcon in these pages yet.
We close with the Beast announcing, "Looks like we can enjoy a little peace, quiet and ree-lak-sa-tion for a change, right, gang?
...nah, I don't believe it either! sigh. "
(God I miss this Beast don't you?)
So a wrap up to the order-change watershed event with some nice moments and some action scenes to keep the pace rolling alongside some wonderful artwork.
(Oh, and a fan-letter inside the original by one Kurt Busiek for you completists!)
Perez is back and this is a beautiful cover with even the guest-damsel-in-distress being rendered with precision.
After a couple of years of doing this and over 80+ issues discussed - I know I SHOULD know but -- does the Vision actually fire eye-beams as he does on this cover? I kind of expect any blast to be from his forehead jewel and just think this looks wrong but I've flicked through my current available Avengers stuff and I can't be sure either way.(Anyone?)
Nice cover anyway and look - despite the line-up announced in #181 - Hawkeye's still around and Ms Marvel gets a cover appearance!
Inside and the first thing I'm struck with is how much I like this combination of Byrne inked strongly by Janson - there is a realism overlaying Byrne's more comicbookish artwork that makes this phase feel special, maybe the colouring helps too.
Ms Marvel gets her security clearance as a fully-fledged (if 'temporary') Avenger and the seeds for so many (didn't Bendis go on!) future plotlines are spotlighted -
"Look lady, positive I.D. is a standard requirement for joining the Avengers these days! Otherwise how would we know it's really you beneath that Ms Marvel mask?"
Tony Stark comes up with "A solution. I hope. How about using retina prints instead? They're just as distinctive as fingerprints-- but less likely to be recorded elsewhere." - which becomes the norm...but still doesn't explain how it is not generally known at this point (is it?) that it's Tony Stark's eyes inside the Iron Man armour.(?)
The Vision bids his wife farewell as she goes on a road-trip with brother Quicksilver and not-her-father-but-humour-him Django Maximoff. Never understood why Vision didn't go along. I liked the brother/sister dynamic we see and we had not had much of it recently but still seems weird to me that husband did not accompany wife - I'm old fashioned I guess.
So, temporary or otherwise, Ms Marvel gets her official debut as a member here . "Well, I guess I'm a full-fledged Avenger now! Does it show?"
"You mean, aside from that tell-tale glow of pride?"
Iron Man and the Beast help the garbage men load their truck, showing how down-to-earth our heroes are while cleverly making the garbage men rounded figures we kind-of-care for before we follow them to the dump and our villain emerges from the rubbish...
I liked that as a bridging scene. Neat.
For continuity buffs - it was Incredible Hulk #209 we last saw the Absorbing Man, shattered from a glass-form and he has finally put himself together at the dump...
"..I've got me somethin' to do!"
After his forced addition to the roster in #181 - we finally catch up with the Falcon as Steve Rogers tries to convince Sam Wilson his membership is more than a 'token' gesture and he agrees to sign up, "But I don't do windows!"
I was vehermently against the Falcon replacing Hawkeye when I first read these issues - which of course is prescisely how I was supposed to feel.
Candy, the girl from the cover, is working at a clothes boutique when the Absorbing Man breaks in, demanding clothes that remind him of his original 'prison duds' look, demands money and takes her as a hostage. (she wears a green jumpsuit rather than the orange she's wearing on the cover.)(Honestly, that was the whole purpose for 'zorby this issue - get-pants!)
The Vision may not see Wanda off on her trip but Clint Barton does, losing an important woman in his life along with his dream-job of being full-time Avenger.
That's how he happens to be in the dockside diner when Creel crops up and a fight breaks out.
After calling the Avengers for help Clint suits up and Hawkeye fights the villain, "Cripes! There must be a super-clown on every corner in this burg!"
As the fight moves to a waterside ship the Avengers arrive but Creel absorbs the turbine engines and, super-sized, he bursts through the deck threatening the harbour-side will "run red... with Avengers Blood!"
The entire issue is a joy and reminds me incredibly of the Avengers battle with a large-sized Tyrak also at the dockside (and with Ms Marvel along) in issue #172. Very similar.
Cinematic art, interesting characters and a strong Avengers membership.
Love this book at this point.
Detective 445 said:
Just for fun some more versions by Sal Buscema/Brett Breeding, Fred Hembeck, Essentials retouch and a Deviant art mashup:
Also compare John Byrne's Bullpen Bulletins illustration for Sep. 1983.