See Batman, Inc. #4...


I love you, Grant Morrison...oh, and your fantastic artist this time, Chris Burnham!

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...Okay , I guess it's official that Harry's death was - somehow - faked by Mysterio . Even in the pre-OMD world .

  Now , how about Baby May ?

  IIRC , around 1997 , I found the issue of the Spidey titles which finally ( as of then ) wrapped up the Clone story , with the clone melting away , etc.

  They finished with a scene in a hospital , where what I thought happened was that Mary Jane told Peter that their baby , perhaps because of Petey's Spidey-ness , had died .

  Born dead/stillborn ? Died at birth ? Slightly after ?

  Obviously , it can sound , certainly in fiction , lacking in sensitivity to say exact medical terms regarding something like this - However , I believe I interpreted it that way .

  Apparently , however , in the pre-OMD world it bacme - I think - " understood " , but not exactly spelled out as canon in any published story that Baby May had been kidnapped/taken away by Osbourne's agents , and was in Europe somehow .

  Am I right ? Was it " understood " but not spelled out ???

  Or , was it spelled out that May survived somehow ?

  Pre-OMD continuity , please .

...When OMD/BND showed us a now-living Harry , I thought that Baby Normie Osbourne had been , somehow , aged into young adulthood , having years of his life taken away from him but having the reward , too , of having the Osbourne madness taken out of him .

  Now , what if I'm right...but Baby May's wandering spirit became/energized the present-day Harry somehow , and so s/he is a real mixed/" two spirits " ?

  Mephisto , in OMD , kustified his doing all this by saying , essentially , that hewanted to make God's ears burn .

  He wanted to show that Peter and MJ's true love could be corrupted . She felt that it woud stand nonetheless .

  We now know that MJ had successfully trcked Mephisto .

  Do we accept , perhaps , that the memory of Baby May's existence was wiped out of both Petey and MJ's memories at the time they spoke to Mephisto ?

  Oh , and I remember reading of an " expaned TPB version " of th four-or-so last issues of the Clone Saga back in the Nineties , climaxing with the story I read .

  What was this story ?

  There's apprently four volumes of a " complete " Clone Saga book collection .

  How complete is it ? 

  Does it include the 101 WAYS TO GET OUT OUT OF THE CLONE SAGA one-shot ??? 

  Remember when Marvel discontinued their annuals for a few years in the early 00s ?

  I recall that the last Spidey annual to come out before that ( Of Web Of Spider-Man ? ) had a CS-oriented story in it...Can you synopsize it for me , please ? I think it was the Annual that the " photo-cover "-style Spidey/MJ kiss shot that sort of anticipated the first movie's .

Just getting to this thread, and wanted to mention that:


* Grant Morrison has said in various interviews (including with me) that EVERY Batman story "counts" in some fashion. Some of the wackier ones are in the Black Casebook, a diary which includes the Batman adventures that Batman can't explain. Others can be written off as fever dreams or hallucinations. But as far as Morrison is concerned, they all happened ... somehow. Morrison does make it clear that all those stories didn't happen to the same guy, in chronological order as they were published, or Batman would be 90 by now. So I guess he just means that all the bits of business going back to 1939 are fair game.


* Kathy Kane's niece Betty Kane is still here, but as far as I remember, never went away. Aside from her initial Bat-Girl appearances, she re-emerged as part of Teen Titans West just before the original Teen Titans title was canceled (to be resurrected as New Teen Titans some years later). In later stories, she pined for Robin, who ignored her, and largely gave up being Bat-Girl because it was no longer getting his attention. Then she was revived as Flamebird II (III? IV?), and hung around a bit before disappearing again. Lately she's been revived in the new Batgirl title, where she's a fellow student of Stephanie Brown at Gotham U, and is becoming something of a sidekick. So she's come and gone in Silver, Bronze and Modern eras, but has never been killed or anything that I'm aware of.

I think Betty Kane appeared in the final story arc of Rucka's Batwoman run in Detective Comics, where we see Batwoman and Batman facing off against the same foe at different times.

The original Bat-Girl, Betty Kane, was reworked slightly and brought into continuity as Flamebird.  They also made her a west coast twit, instead of someone who would have been respectable enough to wear the bat.


How about the various newspaper strips?  Yeah?  And how about the various cartoon series, and TV series, and movies, including the ones from the 40s and the 60s?  You saying they SHOULD be in continuity, or they shouldn't?  What's your point?

Emerkeith Davyjack said:

...How about the original Bat-Girl ?

  Oh , and what about the various continuity newspaper strip versions of Batman over the years ?

  Now THERE'S a kettle of fish...

Lee Houston, Junior said:
But considering how many times the "cosmic reset" (for lack of a better term) button has been hit in the DC universe over the past few decades (Crisis on Infinite Earths, Infinite Crisis, Blackest Night/Brightest Day, etc) are we sure all the unused characters from years past are truly dead or just in obscurity?

Neither Blackest Night nor Brightest Day even do so much as lean on the the Cosmic Reset Button, but you forgot Zero Hour, so it evens out. :P

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Well Dagwan, I will concede your point about Brightest Day versus Zero Hour, although Blackest Night did revive the dead characters that are the focus of Day.

However, between all those cosmic events that have (re)shaped the DC Universe, can anyone say with complete confidence that just because a character hasn't been used in quite a while, exactly what their status was prior to appearing again: flashback or otherwise?

There were a couple of issues of Batman: Confidential that (of all things) established King Tut within the DC Universe despite the fact the character originated on the Adam West TV show. Has anyone used the character since?

Having read Batman, Incorporated #4, I get the feeling that this is more a "reinvention" of the Silver Age Batwoman than a "reintroduction". At least - the character as presented in this comic seems somewhat different in tone and some particulars than she did in the admittedly somewhat few Silver Age Batwoman stories that I've read in the past.
Lee Houston, Junior said:

There were a couple of issues of Batman: Confidential that (of all things) established King Tut within the DC Universe despite the fact the character originated on the Adam West TV show. Has anyone used the character since?

Not to my knowledge. But that was a terrifically fun story!
On a related, but different, note...DC just tweeted that Bobbie Chase...yes, 80s-90s Marvel Bobbie Chase...will be a new editor with the Bat-books.  Interesting. 
...I've had a vague idea for a long time for a story showing a Marsha , Queen Of Diamonds existing in the Bat-verse.........

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