Captain America

[Jeff of Earth-J]

This is a great time to be a Captain America fan. With two ongoing series written by Ed Brubaker (Captain America and Secret Avengers) several limited series either already begun or on the way, I thought it would be nice to have a thread in place to discuss them all. Both Captain America (#611) and Secret Avengers (#6) (as well as Captain America: Patriot which has a thread of its own) shipped this week, and both start new stories with the current issue.

Captain America #611 begins “The Trial of Captain America” in which Bucky Barnes is brought to trial for the crimes he committed as the Winter Soldier. Captain America is and has been for quite some time now my favorite ongoing title in the Marvel Universe.

Secret Avengers #6 begins the five-part “Eyes of the Dragon” which features Shang-Chi and the return of his father (whose name we are not supposed to use). I’ve never read much MoKF, but a couple of years ago I bought the whole series through an ad in the CBG from a store selling whole series sets. I’ve been saving it for a rainy day, and this story may just put me in the mood to read through it start to finish at last.

[ClarkKent_DC]

Wow, Jeff ... I was beginning to think about dropping Captain America.

I like the work Ed Brubaker has done with the title -- it was positive word of mouth here that got me to pick it up again, after I quit it because of too many "Captain America, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D." stories and too many stories about EEEEEEEEEvil Government Conspiracies -- but I find I just don't want to read about the Trial of the Winter Soldier. It just reminds me all too much that this is less Captain America than Captain Substitute.

I haven't decided to drop the book, but the thought is on my mind.

On the other hand, I was a big, big fan of Master of Kung Fu back in the day, and I got my (complete) collection the hard way, one issue at a time. Read yours and then we'll talk; I think you'll enjoy it.

[Rich Steeves]

If I want my Captain America fix, I'm unpacking the old Mark Gruenwald issues out of the longbox...

[Jeff of Earth-J]

ClarkKent_DC said:

Wow, Jeff ... I was beginning to think about dropping Captain America.

“Wow,” indeed. Horseraces, I guess. But see, I like the "Captain America, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D." angle. Whereas I, too, would tend to frown upon a steady diet of “EEEEEEEEEvil Government Conspiracy” stories, first of all, I don’t think that’s what this title is about, and even if/when it is, it’s the only book like that I read. (I gave a wide pass to all that “Civil War” stuff, except where it crossed over into Cap.) I see it more as thwarting the various EEEEEEEEEvil super terrorist organizations of the Marvel Universe and very much the heir of the old Tales of Suspense/Strange Tales super-spy style of stories.

ClarkKent_DC said:

On the other hand, I was a big, big fan of Master of Kung Fu back in the day, and I got my (complete) collection the hard way, one issue at a time. Read yours and then we'll talk; I think you'll enjoy it.

I was thinking of making a “Reading Club” project out if it, but I’m not certain I’m motivated enough to see it through. Right now I’m trying to work my way all the way through Tomb of Dracula (for the first time).

Rich Steeves said:

If I want my Captain America fix, I'm unpacking the old Mark Gruenwald issues out of the longbox...

We’re off to the horseraces again! As much as I have always loved captain America as a character, Grunwald’s run left me cold and I eventually dropped it. Waid and Garney brought me back.

[ClarkKent_DC]

I would hate to drop Captain America, if for no other reason than it's the only Marvel title I still get! "Civil War" drove me away from everything else.

By the way, I've got the entire run of Tomb of Dracula, too. It's still amazing to me that Gene Colan was the only artist on that title, and Marv Wolfman the writer for most of the run (starting with issue #7). You do know there was a crossover between Tomb of Dracula #44 and Doctor Strange #14? I hope you have both of those in your set.

[Jeff of Earth-J]

I do... in color and black and white. You may recall that back in the 90s Marvel released several Dracula one-shots featuring reprints of select issues, mostly those featuring super-heroes. I bought those, but this time through I'm reading the "Essential" collections... in spooky black and white.

My main complaint about Captain America these days is the Nomad back-up feature.

[Cavaliere (moderator emeritus)]

My quibble with the new series is that it seems like it has been a long, long time since we've seen Captain America go out and be a superhero. Not only that, but it focuses so darn much on Bucky's past that (fair or not) it seems like we hardly ever see him in his Captain America uniform.

I'm enjoying what I'm reading but I'd enjoy some traditional stuff mixed in even more.

[George]

"As much as I have always loved Captain America as a character, Grunwald’s run left me cold and I eventually dropped it."

Glad to see someone else shares my opinion of Gruenwald's Cap. Didn't he write it for something like 100 issues? It seemed endless.

I dropped the book soon after the DeMatteis-Zeck run, which ended (if I'm recalling this correctly) with the Dec. 1984 issue. I've only read it sporadically since then.

[Philip Portelli]

James Barnes' dilemma is the return of Steve Rogers. He may be Commander Rogers now but we all know, sooner than later (and I'm betting on sooner), that he will become Captain America again. I have no major problems with the "Bucky-is-alive" thing and thought he was an intriguing figure as the Winter Soldier. They could call him Lieutenant Liberty or Captain USA but do any of us, deep down, think of him as Captain America?

That being said, I am enjoying the series but it's like waiting for the other shoe to drop!

[Jeff of Earth-J]

Gruenwald’s run was from #307 to #443.

He may be Commander Rogers now but we all know, sooner than later (and I'm betting on sooner), that he will become Captain America again.

I disagree. I think Marvel’s serious about this change. As long as Brubaker is writing (an d likely beyond that), Bucky Barnes is going to be Captain America. I said the same thing when Bill Mantlo made the Hulk intelligent, and here I haven’t seen my Hulk in over 25 years! (Well, maybe briefly from time to time.)

…do any of us, deep down, think of him as Captain America?

I, for one, do. Absolutely.

[Cavaliere (moderator emeritus)]

I agree that it's going to stick at long as Brubaker is writing the title. Sadly, though, I know in my heart that soon after he moves on (hopefully a long, long time from now) some nostalgic writer will step in and say, "This isn't what I grew up with. Time for Steve Rogers to be Captain America again."

We should start another thread on characterizations that were just thrown out by later writers.

[Philip Portelli]

Wally West, Kyle Raynor, Connor Hawke, Ryan Choi, James Rhodes, Eric Masterson, Ben Reilly, John Walker. All new versions of established heroes who were supposed to be permanent. I may be wrong (and will be pleasantly surprised if I am) but I see the same fate for Bucky Barnes, not to mention Dick Grayson.

Bucky was dead for 40 years, there have been imposter Buckies, how hard would it be to remove him again to have Steve be Captain America again. And since Steve Rogers is featured in the new Avengers cartoon and will have his own movie, it would be shocking for Marvel not to have him reassume the role that has been hammered into our heads for decades, that Steve Rogers was, is and must always be Captain America.

[Jeff of Earth-J]

…some nostalgic writer will step in and say, "This isn't what I grew up with.

I’m waiting for some nostalgic writer to say that about Spider-Man.

And Hulk, for that matter.

…how hard would it be to remove him again to have Steve be Captain America again?

Admittedly not hard. We’ve seen the tail wag the dog (from our POV) before, but in the real world, of course, the movies are the dog,