Civil War II (SPOILERS)

[The Baron]

OK, so having read #0, I see several plot threads:

1)Jennifer is in court, defending the Jester.  I wonder what the legal complications would be of a lawyer acting as an amateur law enforcer.

2)Rhodey is keeping the peace in Latveria. I don't know why they don't just hand control of Latveria over to Victor in perpetuity. He always ends up in charge there eventually, anyhow.

3)Later, the President offers Rhodey SecDef, as a stepping stone to the Presidency, since if a super-hero is going to be President someday, he doesn't want it to be Tony.  Surely Stark has so many skeletons in the closet that if he ran for anything, they'd need to summon the Ghost of Ray Harryhausen to animate them when they all came dancing out?

4)At Ohio State University, a girl and a boy who had just worked up the nerve to ask her out are Terrigen-cocooned.  Do they really just let the Terrigen float around, mutating whom it will?  Surely, one of the MU's many science geniuses could knock up a giant fan to blow it away from populated areas?

5)Leonard Samson visits Carol Danvers, to make sure she hasn't gone nuts.  She is concerned about the menace that they will not be able to stop.

6)Maria Hill informs Jennifer that the Jester - who was convicted- has been killed in prison. Jennifer is outraged, but Maria is all like "He would have recidivated anyway, they always do."  Was Maria always an @$$hole, or did she become one at some point?

7)Back at OSU the kids hatch out of their cocoons. (They just leave these cocoons lying around? they don't collect them and take them somewhere, or at least cordon them off?)  The boy looks normal-ish, but the girl looks demonic and flies away, yowling.  There is some kind of an episode - it's unclear what - and the boy (and the reader) is left wondering what the Hell happened.  He is alone in a devastated city - presumably Columbus, since that's where OSU is in the "real" world.

I'll tell you my main concern - years ago, I was just starting to really get into the Avengers book, and the first Civil War came along and blew it all up, souring me on Marvel for years. I sure hope that's not about to happen all over again.

[Jeff of Earth-J]

Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod) said:

I'm not sure if the Infamous Iron Man title refers to Stark, though -- isn't that the title where Dr. Doom becomes Iron Man?

Someone else mentioned that. Honestly, I was (and largely still am) unaware of the plans for Iron Man and Dr. Doom. so this will be like "Superior Spider-Man" then, eh? I still don't like the title (either one).

[Captain Comics]

I read somewhere that, yes, Infamous Iron Man is Victor von Doom. Invincible Iron Man will re-launch with the teenage black girl in the armor. Tony is out for some reason -- I'm guessing legal ones.

Unworthy Thor sounds like the original Odinson without the hammer, while Mighty Thor continues.

So yes, there are two each of the Big Three Avengers characters.

And I've lost count of Spider-characters. There are two Spider-Men, yes, but three Spider-Women -- Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew), Silk and Spider-Gwen. And there are more out there! What's Julia Carpenter's status? Do Mattie Franklin and Anya Corazon still have spider-powers? Is Madame Web dead or alive?  (Schroedinger's Madame Web: She exists in both states simultaneously until you open the comic book!)

And there are some other Spider-books, like Spidey and Venom. The cartoon-based books (weirdly, they are now the "Ultimate" books) include, I think, Web Warriors and Ultimate Spider-Man. I think there was also a Web Warriors in the regular Marvel U that was a miniseries.

That's a lot of spiders!

DC is also multiplying books starring its biggest guns, but they're doing it by upping the frequency instead of spinning off Bat- and Super-characters (which they've already tried, to little success).

[Mark S. Ogilvie]

Maybe it's a by product of having so many super powered types, you just get exhausted thinking of original powers for them so you go with what is a proven seller.

[The Baron]

The Web-Warriors book is on-going. It features Spider-Gwen, Spider-Ham, Lady Spider, Spider-Man India, Spider-Man Noir and many others.

[The Baron]

Also, the upcoming U.S. Avengers book is going to feature a third Captain America, a grown-up Dani Cage from the future.

[Captain Comics]

Lordamighty. It's the Crisis of Infinite Spider-People!

The Baron said:

The Web-Warriors book is on-going. It features Spider-Gwen, Spider-Ham, Lady Spider, Spider-Man India, Spider-Man Noir and many others.

[Captain Comics]

I haven't seen MC2 lately, but there was a female Captain America there who called herself American Spirit, I believe, as well as May "Mayday" Parker, of course. But that probably doesn't count, since it's in a probable future and they didn't come back here to stay.

Which reminds me of another Spider-book: Spider-Man 2099. He did come back to stay, so I think he counts as a third Spider-Man.

Hey, what about America Chavez? What's she call herself -- Ms. America? Something like that? That might count as another Captain America. I'm not that familiar with her. She's from an alternate dimension or something, right? Was she the Captain America back where she came from? I have the HC collection of Young Avengers, but I haven't gotten around to reading it.

The Baron said:

Also, the upcoming U.S. Avengers book is going to feature a third Captain America, a grown-up Dani Cage from the future.

[Mark S. Ogilvie]

I'm still waiting for Plaid Hulk.

[Detective 445]

Captain Comics said:

Hey, what about America Chavez?

She's currently a member of the Ultimates. I don't think there's a strong connection to Cap. She has dimension hopping abilities and super strength. I think there was a story in another title that showed her taking up the mantle of Captain America in a possible future. Other than that, I don't know of any connection.

[Philip Portelli]

That would be American Dream AKA Shannon Carter , the niece of Sharon Carter and an agent of SHIELD. At first she was shield-less then later got Cap's shield.
 
Captain Comics said:

I haven't seen MC2 lately, but there was a female Captain America there who called herself American Spirit, I believe, as well as May "Mayday" Parker, of course. But that probably doesn't count, since it's in a probable future and they didn't come back here to stay.

Which reminds me of another Spider-book: Spider-Man 2099. He did come back to stay, so I think he counts as a third Spider-Man.

Hey, what about America Chavez? What's she call herself -- Ms. America? Something like that? That might count as another Captain America. I'm not that familiar with her. She's from an alternate dimension or something, right? Was she the Captain America back where she came from? I have the HC collection of Young Avengers, but I haven't gotten around to reading it.

The Baron said:

Also, the upcoming U.S. Avengers book is going to feature a third Captain America, a grown-up Dani Cage from the future.

[The Baron]

As I recall, Shannon Dream called herself "American Dream", not "American Spirit".

[The Baron]

OK, boys and girls, the discussion for Issue #4 is about to begin.  As always, here's some extra spoiler space:

We open with Carol telling the newly-conscious Jennifer of the fact that Bruce died, and that Clint killed him and walked afterwards.  Jennifer's reaction is not shown, but I'm guessing that Clint may be off of her Christmas card list.  The verdict seems to be popular with the general public.

Next we see Tony telling Carol, Stephen, Medusa, Old Hank McCoy, Steve, Black Bolt and T'Challa that he's worked out that Ulysses visions show a possible future - even a highly probable future - but not a 100% inevitable future. Thus there will always be the possibility of the visions being wrong.  Carol refuses to back down.  

At the same time we see that Carol and SHIELD* have arrested a lady banker as a HYDRA agent based on one of Ulysses' visions, despite the fact that they've found no hard evidence against her.

Suddenly, Kurt BAMFs in and rescues the banker.  A hero confrontation goes down on the roof.

On one side:  Bobby Drake #1,  Young Hank McCoy, Fiery-Winger Angel, Young Cyclops, Stretchy Guy That I Don't Know Who He Is, X-Woman That I Don't Know Who She Is, Sam Wilson, Luke Cage, Kamala Khan, Armored Guy That I Don't Know Who It Is, Stephen, Tony, Kate Bishop, Steve, Miles, Sam Alexander, Jane Foster and the Vision.

On the other side is Sasquatch, Ms. America Maybe Her Costume Looks Wrong, Carol, Unknown X-Man With Porn-Star Mustache, Illyana Rasputin, T'Challa, Scott Lang, Bobby Drake #2, Young Jean Grey, Monica Rambeau, Ororo and someone who could be either Eugene Judd or Dennis Dunphy, I'm not sure.

Tony tells Carol to stand down because her side is out-powered. Carol reveals that she has called in the Guardians of the Galaxy:  Drax, Groot, Star-Lord, Sword-Woman That I Don't Know Who She Is, Kitty, Rocket, Gamora, Ben and Venom.

Overall: Still interesting to me.  Carol presented as being more of a jerk here than I thought she was.  Tony seems to be more in favor of sitting down with people and talking over what he's found out.

*Stands for "Sam Hugs Intelligent Eagles, Lady Dorma"