I realized that this crossover covers all four CWDCTVU shows, so I've started a separate discussion. I hope that is okay.
Thoughts on Parts One and Two (with some spoilers):
The Big Day arrives for Barry and Iris. Several people encounter trouble getting to town. Two guests are squabbling, while two others have a too-public debate about their relationship. One guest acts like a drunken obnoxious doof. Two others drink a little too much and wake up in bed together.
In short, it begins like every wedding ever—until the point where it resembles every superhero wedding ever, and Nazis, accompanied by alt-reality versions of some familiar heroes, crash the party at the most predictable point imaginable….
This crossover plays like an actual crossover comic movie, instead of linked episodes. We have DC’s traditional Crossover Event title, and some fun examples of superheroes coordinating their efforts and powers.
Mick Rory is the perfect obnoxious wedding guest, and provides laughs almost every moment he’s onscreen.
The encounter between Ollie and a certain villain seems a little off—until we learn the full truth.
I could have done with fewer CW musical scenes (Melissa Benoist notwithstanding), but at least the CW drama feels character-driven, and integrated with the story, rather than slathered on top of it.
The CW Earth-X combines Earth-X with Earth-3 and, of course, ignores questions like multiple doppelgangers would exist on an earth where the Nazis won World War II by nuking multiple cities.
Why does the episode treat the two key Nazi villains’ identities as a big reveal—twice? They can only be alt.Ollie and alt.Kara. We know that from the start, and the heroes, despite their frequent lapses of intelligence, should figure it out, too.
Behind-the-scenes and contractual issues can affect the story, and we have to accept that. Still, it seems odd that, with so many heroes, only the three leads turn up for the confrontation with the three major villains—and then they banter before going head to head. They’re like kids meeting to fight after school.
If you want to catch Kid Flash, don’t blink; however, the episode gives him a reason to disappear. But the combined teams seriously need help. Can we have an in-universe reason why Supergirl doesn’t call in her overpowered cousin to help, given what is at stake? It would be wrong, dramatically, but it should be explained. Cisco isn’t the only one who can open portals.
It’s great to see an actual DC Crisis tale on the screen, with the superpowered fight scenes we expect. Believe it or not, that was William Katt, star of The Greatest American Hero (and Carrie White’s doomed prom date) playing the Minister.
I liked both parts so far. I stopped watching Legends a while ago (and I never watched Arrow regularly), so it was nice seeing a crossover between my two (although one is more populated) favorite TV superhero universes. All the characters got an equal amount of exposure; I don't even know which show other than Supergirl it was I watched last night. I saw another subtle dig against Our President, perhaps a bit more subtle than the last. Whenever Nazis crash a wedding (or, by extension, show up at any event at all), the only thing one need say is, "I hate Nazis." There really is no other response.
JD DeLuzio said:
Can we have an in-universe reason why Supergirl doesn’t call in her overpowered cousin to help, given what is at stake? It would be wrong, dramatically, but it should be explained.
Earth-X Kara told us that her pod landed in Nazi Germany instead of the U.S. Who knows where Kal-El’s pod landed. It’s also stated that a nuclear armed Third Reich nuked New York, London and at least one other major city. Some of the heroes wouldn’t exist as dopplegangers, and neither would I.
Jeff of Earth-J said:
I don't even know which show other than Supergirl it was I watched last night.
The show after Supergirl was Arrow. I like that they didn’t waste time recapping the first installment. It’s sort of like a comic written for a trade paperback. I’m sure that before long they’ll be putting out a DVD collecting the four parts as a movie.
Supergirl, not Overgirl. The Good GuysTM have a bunch of powerful friends they don't even discuss calling in for help. I recognize that's not going to happen and shouldn't, from a dramatic point of view, but they could at least give a reason why the good Kara doesn't call in her established friends, for example.
Richard Willis said:
JD DeLuzio said:
In part two, several of those powerful friendsdo come into play.
We get more effects, but some of them are weaker (TV budgets, after all), and an amplification of some of the plot silliness. The Nazi invasion involves a bunch of guys who march into a line-up of metahumans? And no one brings along one of those handy metahuman dampeners from Earth-X?
I still enjoyed seeing the heroes get together.
Sad though it was, it seemed appropriate the shows should lose one major player in so significant a conflict.
Given that der furher and the resident Kryptonian are dead, and given that Earth-X's heroes helped them out, wouldn't it be appropriate for the heroes to take this opportunity to help the resistance back on Earth-X???
My earlier comment about Superman's pod landing elsewhere needs expansion. Since we have an Earth-X Kara we obviously have a Krypton-X in that universe. If this Kara went into the pod as a teen or pre-teen like our Kara, she must have been inclined toward Nazi-type ideas before then or it wouldn't have been as easy to turn her into what we saw. This means that Krypton-X may be Nazi-like or the El family is Nazi-like. For all we know, Kal-El either didn't exist or died when Krypton-X exploded (if it did).
Episodes 3 and 4 haven't aired yet in the Pacific Time Zone, so I haven't seen them yet.
I saw Parts 1 and 2 of the crossover, but wasn't home for Parts 3 and 4; I'll catch them later. Some thoughts:
* Isn't it wonderful, living in the future?
** I note this because a few weeks ago, I saw the ER episode that was a crossover with Third Watch. Dr. Lewis's sister, a recovering drug addict, fell off the wagon and went to New York, so Dr. Lewis went there to search for her, spending the day with two NYPD uniformed officers. Since Third Watch isn't in syndication, I didn't get to see the second half of the story. Likewise, I ran across the Law & Order half of the second crossover it did with Homicide: Life on the Street, which was their version of the Jon Benet Ramsey murder case. But Homicide isn't on the air. When TNT carried Law & Order, it would show both halves of the crossover episodes, which was nice.
Oliver and Felicity are a couple? I guess they've gotten past that business where Oliver punctured Felicity's boyfriend full of holes ...
They have been working together pretty much all along, but only in the last few episodes have they gotten back together romantically.
Although a little disappointed with Parts 3 and 4, it was interesting to see
that each hero disposed of his or her counterpart in a series/hero appropriate way.
-Overgirl died at the end of her fight with Supergirl, but not because Supergirl killed her. Also, shout-out to Superman II.
-Barry could've killed his, but just let him go, and Thawne gives a line that might as well have been "We'll meet again! Mwah ha ha!"
-Ollie fatally shot his Nazi doppelgänger.
“…will the season DVD sets for each show include all four parts of the crossover?”
Maybe the crossover will be available separately. It makes more sense that each set will include all four, otherwise a lot of people will be p*ssed if they have to buy four DVD sets for the complete story, especially if they don’t care for one or more of the other shows.
“I like that they're treating this crossover as one four-part TV movie…”
Ditto. Overall, I liked it. It was a good, superheroey romp, much better than the previous crossover.
I greatly enjoyed the crossover. Only two things bothered me. Martin Stein should have been allowed to go home to his family. He could still have been the hero and been wounded, but you don't have to die to be a hero. The other thing was Barry letting Thawne just go about his business. I accept that Barry won't kill, but that doesn't mean you let a homicidal, super-powerful maniacal genius just wander off where he wants. I have no problem with Ollie killing his dopplegander, who was Hitler 2.0, with an arrow. Even if he wanted to arrest him, it was a gun (arrow) battle between a cop and a vicious killer. And, if nobody noticed, half of the heroes were mowing down the faceless Nazi soldiers with submachinegun fire.
Call it pop culture rule #88: heroes can kill Nazis with impunity.
Richard Willis said:
And, if nobody noticed, half of the heroes were mowing down the faceless Nazi soldiers with submachinegun fire.
And I really appreciate that.
Richard wondered if they were going to short-shrift Supergirl like last year, where her crossover episode was a regular episode with the crossover tacked onto the end. They didn't, as it appears they learned their lesson.
Also, in previous years each episode was series-focused, in that the Arrow episode largely featured the Arrow characters, the Flash episode largely featured the Flash characters, and so forth. Treating this as one big story where you don't even know which show you're watching is a vast improvement in storytelling and I would really be surprised if the creators didn't notice that (and enjoy being out of a writing straitjacket) and use this model going forward.
Agreed. He's my favorite Legend. Even though I don't understand how he can use his fire gun to push things around (instead of just burning them).
I HATE musicals. Hate, hate, hate. Hated the Flash/Supergirl musical episodes. One of the reasons I hate musicals is people launching into song in the middle of a fight or whatever, stopping the narrative cold, and worse, looking ridiculous. (OK, everyone, stop fighting, because we're all going to do a song. That all of us happen to know. And you guys over there? Do a dance routine. That you all happen to know.) But having Kara sing at the wedding is stitched into the narrative, is a very normal thing to do at a wedding (as opposed to STAR Labs or someplace) and she does have a beautiful voice. (Some performers don't, but think they do. See: Stephen Colbert.) So I was able to enjoy it. Especially since it was short.
Earth-3? How so? This is Grant Morrison's Earth-X through and through. Morrison established a Nazi Justice League called JLAxis (2007) and New Reichsmen (2015). Earth-3, by contrast, is an evil world that was conquered by ersatz JLA doppelgängers like Owlman and Johnny Quick, and I don't see those guys anywhere. Morrison's Earth-X has an Overman (Ubermensch), and here we have an Overgirl.
Earth-X has Nazi versions of Earth's superheroes, because it was the Nazis who conquered the world. In this case we only got Dark Arrow and Overgirl, because duh, Arrow and Supergirl. But we can readily assume there are no more because -- as you note -- more people were killed on this Earth, so I'm guessing doppelgängers of, say, Bruce Wayne and Arthur Curry didn't get born because Gotham City and Atlantis were nuked in 1945. Evidently James Olsen and Oliver Queen were among the few familiar faces who survived to 2017. We have to imagine a bit to get where we are, but it's not that big a stretch.
When Freedom Fighters: The Ray appears on CW Seed, the Morrison connection will be even more pronounced. You'll see more of the Freedom Fighters, originally the Quality heroes per JLA #107, who Morrison established in Multiversity as persecuted minorities. The Ray is gay, Black Condor is Native American, Doll Man is Jewish, and so forth. That appears to be the case in the animated show.
They're really cleaving pretty close to the definitive Earth-X, but emphasizing the CW characters, as you'd expect. I don't see any Earth-3 DNA in here.
I don't really know, but I can guess.
Remember that in the second episode one of the characters asked, "How can there be another Supergirl?" and "our" Harrison (the one from Earth-2) had to explain parallel worlds again. "There are 53 Supergirls. And 53 Olivers ..." So the characters on the show did NOT figure it out.
Although I agree that they should have. Heck, they met Supergirl a year ago, and are just now asking questions about parallel worlds? But my guess is that the showrunners were unsure how savvy the audience was, and repeated the information a few times to make sure we got it.
I think a better question would be, "Wait -- why don't WE have a Supergirl?" Why doesn't Earth-1 have a native Maid of Steel? Or a Superman? Maybe Krypton-1 exploded prematurely. Or not at all.
Can we have an in-universe reason why Supergirl doesn’t call in her overpowered cousin to help, given what is at stake? It would be wrong, dramatically, but it should be explained. Cisco isn’t the only one who can open portals.
Kara wasn't even on her own Earth when the Nazis attacked, and was rendered helpless under a red-sun lamp by the end of the episode. She had neither the time nor the means to summon Superman.
As to other heroes coming to help, they did. The remainder of Team Arrow rode in as cavalry, but failed. The remainder of the Legends rode in, and we even saw them summoned (by Iris and Felicity).
With Vibe down and Supergirl captured, going to Supergirl's Earth for help wasn't a possibility, even if anybody knew who to ask.
Whenever Nazis crash a wedding (or, by extension, show up at any event at all), the only thing one need say is, "I hate Nazis." There really is no other response.
Agreed. And it always seems like a callback to Raiders of the Lost Ark to me. "Nazis. I hate those guys."
Earth-X Kara told us that her pod landed in Nazi Germany instead of the U.S. Who knows where Kal-El’s pod landed.
We know what happened to Superman-X (or Overman, as he was probably called): Reverse Flash killed him. "We had a guy who was as fast as you on our Earth. But he wasn't as fast as me." Or words to that effect.
It does seem shabby that they don't take the time to help. I have no answer for that. And Citizen Cold also abandoned his home planet to hang out on Earth-1, which is great for Earth-Prime viewers of Legends, but not so great for his boyfriend and Earth-X. I assume we'll get a reason later, but it better be a pretty good one.
Or Alex's one-night stand with Sara, and Alex's overblown angst the morning after. As noted elsewhere, I thought it was kind of dumb for Alex to be so invested in her first girlfriend, but her reaction over waking up in Sara's bed tells me that's who she is, wearing her heart on her sleeve. Chyler Leigh made it charming.
That's how I read it too. Alex is just wound too tight, and too invested in her Miss Perfect persona.
Isn't it wonderful, living in the future?
... each hero disposed of his or her counterpart in a series/hero appropriate way.
I thought so, too. Although I agree with Richard that, even given their limited resources (being on the wrong Earth and all), Barry should have done something else. Maybe cut Eobard's Achilles tendons? He won't run anywhere until he's healed, and maybe by then they can get him to Earth-1 and rig up something to hold him. I dunno. Letting him go was a very Barry thing to do, but not very practical.
Even on Earth-X, "James" Olsen as The Guardian is pretty useless.
Ain't it the truth! Also, did anyone else get a Captain America vibe from a shield-carrying hero painted like the flag?
I don't quite get the invitation list regarding the Legends. Okay, Stein was a mentor of Robbie Raymond, and thus a friend of Barry's ... and, of course, where Stein goes, Jefferson Jackson goes. But why was Sara Lance invited? Why was Mick Rory invited? As he said himself, he's tried to kill Barry more than once. As for the rest of them, Steel, Vixen and We-Can't-Call-Her-Isis are new to the team, so of course they're not invited, but why wasn't Ray Palmer?
I wondered about that, too, and don't have any answers. You could argue that Ray would be awkward, given that he used to date Felicity, but then Sara is there, and she used to date Oliver. Contract issues, maybe? *shrugs*
Call it pop culture rule #88: heroes can kill Nazis with impunity.
I noticed that Supergirl killed the first Nazi she fought. It was quick, and her body blocked the kill shot, but she grabbed the machine gun of one Nazi and turned it on another as the first one fired. Nazi 2 would be dead instantly. And that was liberal bleeding heart Supergirl.
Speaking of machine guns, there were several scenes where hordes of Nazis were firing at our heroes out in the open, and nobody was shot. It's almost like they were firing blanks ...
Yeah, it's TV. I accept it. But I count on the director to help me accept it, by not showing people running through an open field with dozens of machine guns firing on them. Mix up the camera work a little bit, so it's not so obvious. Close-ups are your friend.
Martin Stein should have been allowed to go home to his family. He could still have been the hero and been wounded, but you don't have to die to be a hero.
True, but it was a genuine surprise and a big emotional moment. Even my wife was crying. ("I'm not crying, you're crying!") And don't forget: The Legends live in a time machine. What if they found an age-appropriate (early 20s) version of him? We may not have seen the last of Martin Stein (although we probably have seen the last of Victor Garber). We surely haven't seen the last of Firestorm, so Jax is going to bond with somebody.
Also, that scene affected me when Stein noted that he was an old man with his life behind him. That was a shock to remember that even superheroes run out of time. We're so used to seeing a virtually immortal Peter Parker and Bruce Wayne, that we forget that, yes, people do age and die even in fiction, and you only get so much time. Stein had lived his life. Jax had not. It was important to remember that, and the scene pounded it home.