Crisis on Infinite Earths -- SPOILERS!!

[ClarkKent_DC]

The "Supergirl -- Season 5 SPOILERS!!" thread was starting to turn into a "Crisis on Infinite Earths" thread, so I figured somebody ought to start one.

"Crisis on Infinite Earths" is this year's annual Arrowverse crossover on the CW, which will include Arrow, The Flash, Legends of Tomorrow, Supergirl and Batwoman.

Here's a comprehensive rundown of what is known about it, from Too Fab: "Everything We Know About the Arrowverse 'Crisis' Crossover: 'Kingdom Come, Burt Ward, Anti-Monitor and More!"

[Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod)]

Well, that was sumthin!

I'll hold off a bit before discussing details, but I really enjoyed the third episode -- almost as much as episode 2. And man, there was one moment that I did *not* see coming at ALL.

Meanwhile, here's something to chew on for the next month or so. From a Rolling Stone interview with Marc Guggenheim:

He told the creative teams of all the CW shows (including Black Lightning, whose title character will participate even though Crisis isn’t making an episode for it) to consider Crisis “a magic ticket” that would allow them to make whatever changes, big or small, to their continuity, in the same way that Superman and Wonder Woman got new origin stories and altered supporting casts in the wake of the original comic book Crisis.

So, what changes do you think the showrunners will make? What changes would you want them to make?

[Jeff of Earth-J]

“Why aren't we talking about it?”

Too big, too much to say...? That was my reason. I was waiting for someone else to get the ball rolling, so thanks for doing that. Very astute observations!

Has anyone been watching the aftershow hosted by Kevin Smith? (I guess “aftershows” are a thing now.) It’s very similar to The Talking Dead (I almost expected to see Chris Hardwick); they even had an “In Memorium’ section.

The “Easter eggs” (especially Tom welling’s) made my day. Moist of them were little more than cameos (Teen Titans, for example), but the unexpected ones (Birds of Prey, for example) made my day, like I said. There wasn’t a reference to the recent Gotham, was there? I think Kevin Conroy’s “strange visitor from another planet” speech was their way of including the original Adventures of Superman.

I haven’t re-read Crisis on Infinite Earths in a long time, but this show (these shows) have put me in the mood.

[Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod)]

I was really surprised in episode 3 by both Lucifer -- a show I’d forgotten even existed -- and (big spoilers here)...

(la, la, la...

nothing to see here....

move along if you haven’t seen episode 3...)






Jim Corrigan, who I’d forgotten had been established in on Constantine’s show. And, it seems, giving the power of the Spectre to Oliver, which will be a lot of fun for the next episodes. I hope he turns into giant scissors and cuts someone in half.

The Flash scene -- the death of the John Wesley Shipp of earth 90 -- was very moving, especially with the brief callback to the Barry/Tina footage from that show.

And I loved, loved, LOVED the twist at the end. That’s a perfect moment, and it will provide an excellent source of friction to make the upcoming scenes at Vanishing Point fun.

I loved seeing Ryan Choi -- I wonder what that’ll mean for Ray Palmer once Legends returns?

Another fun cameo, from episode 1: apparently the trivia night host was played by the guy who played Arthur on the recent Tick show.

There are still a handful of unannounced cameos. Is there anyone you’d particularly like to see? Lynda Carter would be my top choice, of course, but it’d be great to hear the voices of Diedrich Bader and Will Arnett as Batmen from other earths, and (probably more likely) maybe see Helen Slater as an older Superwoman?

[Doctor Hmmm?]

Rob, I laughed out loud at the scissors line.

[KSwolf]

Lynda Carter shouldn't be too hard to get, considering that she's had a recurring role on Supergirl for the past couple of seasons.  Although they'd have to explain how an immortal Amazon seems to have aged so much over the past four decades.

Some of the IZombie cast might make for a fun cameo.  Rose McIver doesn't seem to be too busy at the moment and Rahul Kohli even popped up on an episode of Supergirl earlier this season.

The Doom Patrol definitely needs to appear.  If they can find room to work in cameos for those idiots Jason Todd and Hank Hall from the awful Titans series, then they can surely fit in some cameos from the vastly superior spinoff series.  I'll take Brendan Fraser's Robotman and Diane Guerrero's Crazy Jane, please.

Would they dare give us some Watchmen cameos?  Doomsday Clock has firmly established that the Watchmen universe is part of the larger DC Comics multiverse, so those characters should be fair game.  Regina King's Sister Night or Tim Blake Nelson's Looking Glass snarking on the red skies would be a real treat.

Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod) said:

There are still a handful of unannounced cameos. Is there anyone you’d particularly like to see? Lynda Carter would be my top choice, of course, but it’d be great to hear the voices of Diedrich Bader and Will Arnett as Batmen from other earths, and (probably more likely) maybe see Helen Slater as an older Superwoman?

[Jeff of Earth-J]

"Although they'd have to explain how an immortal Amazon seems to have aged so much over the past four decades."

She married Steve Trevor and lost her immortality.

[Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod)]

You’re right, KSW -- I think they’ll be able to get Lynda Carter. The question is, can they get the use of Wonder Woman approved? I have a feeling she’s one of the characters on the “off-limits” list. But maybe there’s a way to wink at the viewer without specifically stating that she’s Diana? (After all, we’re left to intuit that Burt Ward was Robin -- he wasn’t in costume and didn’t refer to himself by that name. We just had the actor, a distinctive line, and the color choices in his sweater, and we were expected to put the clues together.)

iZombie is a GREAT choice, and I’d be thrilled. Or...what about Shaq? Can we get a Steel fly-by?

[KSwolf]

Still plenty of possibilities that haven't been touched upon yet.

How about some of the old 1940's serials featuring various National/ Fawcett/ Quality characters?  Superman, Batman, The Vigilante, Captain Marvel, Spy Smasher and Blackhawk all had series during the Golden Age.  I wonder of any of the actors from those things are still alive?

Either the 90's Human Target series with Rick Springfield or the 2010 series with Mark Valley.

The 80's Swamp Thing movies and the 90's television series that was spun off from them, or the more recent series from the DC Universe service.

Superman and the Mole Men and The Adventures of Supeman tv series which was spun off from it.  Of course, I'm not sure how many actors are still alive from those productions either.

The 1970's Shazam tv series.

All of the horrible 2000's movies that Warner Bros kept making with various DC characters.  The Losers!  Green Lantern!  Jonah Hex!  Constantine!  Of course there's no chance they'd get Idris Elba, Ryan Reynolds, Josh Brolin or Keanu Reeves to show up, but they could still probably get some tertiary actors from those films

Cathy Lee Crosby's made-for-tv Wonder Woman film from 1975.

The horrendous Justice League made-for-tv-movie from the 90's with the fat Martian Manhunter.

The Legends of the Super-Heroes tv specials from the 70's  (or are those considered to be part of Batman '66 continuity?)

The syndicated Adventures of Superboy show.

The Aquaman pilot that the CW streamed on their website, but declined to order to series.

Pennyworth -- an underrated gem of a series that deserves to have more exposure.

[ClarkKent_DC]

I intend to watch it again and hunt for Easter eggs (I did not catch the reference to scissors!), but I will offer some responses to other people's observations ... 

Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod) said:

I was really surprised in episode 3 by both Lucifer -- a show I’d forgotten even existed -- 

Yeah, about that ... I suppose they needed to keep some secrets.

Also, Lucifer's final exchange with John Constantine -- "Consider us even, John ConstanTINE." "Heh, ha, ha, ha ... ConstanTEEN." "Is it? I don't care" was exactly backward! That irked me!

Another thing that irks me? The Monitor. He's like The Watcher, in that they're both immeasurably powerful beings who show up at moments of great crisis only to talk in riddles and tell you they are not going to help you. Worse, they know more than they will tell you and make sure you know they won't tell you all that they know.

And in this story, he sends the heroes on a quest to find Superman ... by giving Luthor the Book of Destiny so he can go kill Supermen in various realities?!? Thanks for nothing!

That said, I do like the guy who is playing The Monitor, LaMonica Garrett; he brings the gravitas and actually makes that goofy braids-and-muttonchops look work.

Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod) said:

The Flash scene -- the death of the John Wesley Shipp of earth 90 -- was very moving, especially with the brief callback to the Barry/Tina footage from that show.

Indeed.

Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod) said:

I loved seeing Ryan Choi -- I wonder what that’ll mean for Ray Palmer once Legends returns?

I don't know ... but Brandon Routh isn't supposed to be with the show after this season.

Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod) said:

Another fun cameo, from episode 1: apparently the trivia night host was played by the guy who played Arthur on the recent Tick show.

And the guy with the sign ("PREPARE TO MEET THY DOOM THE END IS NIGH") was Wil Wheaton!

Jeff of Earth-J said:

Has anyone been watching the aftershow hosted by Kevin Smith? (I guess “aftershows” are a thing now.) It’s very similar to The Talking Dead (I almost expected to see Chris Hardwick); they even had an “In Memorium’ section.

I, for one, have not been watching the aftershow because it is hosted by Kevin Smith.

[ClarkKent_DC]

Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod) said:

Meanwhile, here's something to chew on for the next month or so. From a Rolling Stone interview with Marc Guggenheim:

He told the creative teams of all the CW shows (including Black Lightning, whose title character will participate even though Crisis isn’t making an episode for it) to consider Crisis “a magic ticket” that would allow them to make whatever changes, big or small, to their continuity, in the same way that Superman and Wonder Woman got new origin stories and altered supporting casts in the wake of the original comic book Crisis.

So, what changes do you think the showrunners will make? What changes would you want them to make?

I don't have a clue what changes the showrunners will make. Somehow, I doubt they intend to fold all the Earths into just one (although I have no specific reason to believe this), and I'd rather they didn't.

What would I like to see?

• Nora and Henry Allen alive after it's all over. 
• Likewise, Captain Cold.
• A wedding for Joe West and ex-District Attorney Cecile.
• Wally West and Cat Grant back in the mix.

[Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod)]

I'd love to see all those things -- especially Nora and Henry alive! Be great to have Martin Stein back, too!

And oh, wow -- maybe we'll get a chance to see Jax as Firestorm again, if only briefly. That'd be nice. 

Thanks for that huge list of possible cameos, KSWolf! Was the Human Target in the most recent TV series the same one that appeared on Arrow a few times? It'd be cool to see him again. 

They could pull in Adam Strange from Krypton.

In the super-unlikely cameos category, there's always the cast of Preacher. Constantine vs Cassidy?

[KSwolf]

The "Arrowverse" version of the Human Target was played by a different actor than the one from his solo series, and as far as I can recall, there were no established connections between the two shows.

As for the Preacher crossover, I'm pretty sure that would be impossible without a whole lot of contractual and legal negotiations.  That was a creator-owned comic and the copyrights to the story and all the characters are owned by Garth Ennis and (I assume) the estate of Steve Dillon.

Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod) said:

I'd love to see all those things -- especially Nora and Henry alive! Be great to have Martin Stein back, too!

And oh, wow -- maybe we'll get a chance to see Jax as Firestorm again, if only briefly. That'd be nice. 

Thanks for that huge list of possible cameos, KSWolf! Was the Human Target in the most recent TV series the same one that appeared on Arrow a few times? It'd be cool to see him again. 

They could pull in Adam Strange from Krypton.

In the super-unlikely cameos category, there's always the cast of Preacher. Constantine vs Cassidy?