There was an unusual announcement in the Bullpen Page announcement that as of next month Daredevil and Iron Man were going to be combined into the same book, possibly as a split book.

It was odd, as it seemed to come out of the blue, and at a time when Marvel was jumping the price of their books up to 25 cents.

But the change never happened.  That is, the two heroes separate books continued separately.

However, just recently, I was flipping through the covers of Marvel Super-heroes, a reprint book that had variously run the original Avengers and X-men, Sub-Mariner from Tales to Astonish and Daredevil and Incredible Hulk.

But at some point, it would appear that both Iron Man and Daredevil were being run together in reprints.

#28-29-30-31

Could it be that this was the pairing that Marvel's Bullpen Page had  intended in their announcement?


Who knows the story behind this? 

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A while back I went through the lists at Comichron and made a list consisting of Marvel's and DC's titles only because I wanted to get a better sense of Marvel's progress in comparison to DC's over the decade. I think it's OK for me to post it here but I won't leave it up permanently because it's drawn from someone else's information and work. Most DC titles didn't report in 1963 and 1964. Marvel titles are in bold. The numbers on the left represent how the titles place in Comichron's full list of reporting titles for the year. Bear in mind that the titles had different frequencies (variously monthly, bimonthly or eight-times-a-year).

 

1960

 

3) Superman DC 810,000

4) Superboy DC 635,000

6) Batman DC 502,000

7) Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen DC 498,000

8) World's Finest Comics DC 476,000

10) Action Comics DC 458,000

11) Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane DC 458,000

12) Adventure Comics DC 438,000

16) Blackhawk DC 316,000

17) Detective Comics DC 314,000
18) Flash DC 298,000

20) Mystery in Space DC 248,000

21) Challengers of the Unknown DC 228,000

23) Brave & Bold DC 214,000

24) Showcase DC 213,000

25) Wonder Woman DC 213,000

27) Sugar & Spike DC 209,000

28) My Greatest Adventure DC 208,000

29) House of Mystery DC 208,000

30) Strange Adventures DC 207,000

31) House of Secrets DC 194,000

32) Fox & The Crow DC 193,000

35) Tales of the Unexpected DC 192,000

38) Tomahawk DC 180,000

39) All-American Men of War DC 176,000

40) Our Fighting Forces DC 175,000

41) Our Army at War DC 172,000

42) Star-Spangled War Stories DC 169,000

43) Tales to Astonish Marvel 163,156

44) All Star Western DC 154,000

45) Tales of Suspense Marvel 148,929

46) Kid Colt Outlaw Marvel 144,746

 

1961

 

2) Superman DC 820,000

3) Superboy DC 655,000

4) Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen DC 520,000

5) Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane DC 515,000

7) Batman DC 485,000

8) Action Comics DC 485,000

9) World's Finest Comics DC 480,000

10) Adventure Comics DC 460,000

13) Justice League of America DC 335,000

14) Detective Comics DC 325,000

16) Blackhawk DC 305,000

17) Flash DC 305,000

19) Green Lantern DC 255,000

21) Brave & Bold DC 245,000

25) Mystery in Space DC 240,000

26) Showcase DC 240,000

28) Challengers of the Unknown DC 235,000

29) Wonder Woman DC 230,000

30) House of Mystery DC 225,000

32) My Greatest Adventure Patrol DC 220,000

33) Rip Hunter, Time Master DC 215,000

34) Strange Adventures DC 210,000

35) Our Fighting Forces DC 210,000

36) House of Secrets DC 205,000

37) Star-Spangled War Stories DC 205,000

38) Sugar & Spike DC 195,000

39) Tales of the Unexpected DC 195,000

40) Tales to Astonish Marvel 184,895

41) Tales of Suspense Marvel 184,635

42) All-American Men of War DC 180,000

45) Fox & The Crow DC 165,000

47) Rawhide Kid Marvel 150,162

 

1962

 

1) Superman DC 740,000

2) Superboy DC 605,000

3) Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane DC 490,000

4) Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen DC 470,000

7) Action Comics DC 435,000

8) World's Finest Comics DC 420,000

9) Adventure Comics DC 415,000

10) Batman DC 410,000

11) Justice League of America DC 340,000

14) Flash DC 270,000

16) Detective Comics DC 265,000

19) Blackhawk DC 250,000

23) Green Lantern DC 240,000

24) G.I. Combat DC 240,000

26) Showcase DC 220,000

27) Wonder Woman DC 215,000

28) Brave & Bold DC 210,000

29) Sea Devils DC 205,000

30) Challengers of the Unknown DC 195,000

31) Rip Hunter, Time Master DC 195,000

32) Star-Spangled War Stories DC 195,000

33) Mystery in Space DC 190,000

34) Strange Adventures DC 180,000

35) Tales of the Unexpected DC 180,000

37) House of Mystery DC 175,000

38) My Greatest Adventure DC 175,000

39) Adventures of Jerry Lewis DC 175,000

41) Sugar & Spike DC 160,000

43) Fox & The Crow DC 145,000

44) Modeling with Millie Marvel 143,476

45) Patsy & Hedy Marvel 139,855

46) Tales to Astonish Marvel 139,167

47) Strange Tales Marvel 136,637

48) Journey into Mystery Marvel 132,113

50) Gunsmoke Western Marvel 126,475

51) Tales of Suspense Marvel 126,140

 

1963

 

21) Sea Devils DC 203,150

23) Rawhide Kid Marvel 194,390

24) Kid Colt Outlaw Marvel 192,755

25) Tales to Astonish Marvel 189,390

26) Strange Tales Marvel 189,305

27) Tales of Suspense Marvel 188,110

28) Journey into Mystery Marvel 187,895

29) Patsy Walker Marvel 174,375

30) Millie the Model Marvel 173,925

 

1964

 

1) Action Comics DC 518,026

14) Metal Men DC 295,513

20) Atom DC 265,304

34) Aquaman DC 226,578

35) Strange Tales Marvel 215,090

36) Tales to Astonish Marvel 207,365

37) Tales of Suspense Marvel 207,065

38) Journey into Mystery Marvel 205,075

40) Sea Devils DC 198,486

42) Rip Hunter, Time Master DC 197,398

43) Rawhide Kid Marvel 187,190

44) Kid Colt Outlaw Marvel 184,405

49) Adventures of Jerry Lewis DC 164,364

50) Adventures of Bob Hope DC 163,346

 

1965

 

1) Superman DC 823,829

2) Superboy DC 672,681

3) Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane DC 556,091

4) Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen DC 554,931

5) Action Comics DC 525,254

6) Adventure Comics DC 520,440

8) World's Finest Comics DC 465,842

9) Batman DC 453,745

11) Justice League of America DC 389,285

15) Metal Men DC 334,245

18) G.I. Combat DC 320,607

19) Detective Comics DC 304,414

20) Flash DC 298,151

28) Green Lantern DC 273,527

29) Our Army at War DC 270,100

34) Atom DC 255,254

39) Brave & Bold DC 249,768

40) All-American Men of War DC 247,717

41) Aquaman DC 247,140

46) Star-Spangled War Stories DC 243,700

49) Showcase DC 235,091

50) Journey into Mystery Marvel 232,644

53) Strange Tales Marvel 230,285

54) Tomahawk DC 229,979

57) Tales to Astonish Marvel 224,346

58) Tales of Suspense Marvel 222,060

59) Challengers of the Unknown DC 220,965

61) Millie the Model Marvel 219,427

64) Wonder Woman DC 209,918

65) Adventures of Jerry Lewis DC 209,691

66) Young Love DC 206,456

67) Doom Patrol DC 200,188

68) House of Mystery DC 196,677

69) Kid Colt Outlaw Marvel 193,506

70) Rawhide Kid Marvel 192,540

71) Adventures of Bob Hope DC 191,656

72) Sea Devils DC 182,866

73) Mystery in Space DC 182,376

75) Sugar & Spike DC 175,089

79) Fox & The Crow DC 160,515

 

1966

 

1) Batman DC 898,470

2) Superman DC 719,976

3) Superboy DC 608,386

4) Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane DC 530,808

5) Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen DC 523,455

6) World's Finest Comics DC 513,201

8) Action Comics DC 491,135

9) Adventure Comics DC 481,234

10) Justice League of America DC 408,219

11) Detective Comics DC 404,339

12) Metal Men DC 396,506

16) Amazing Spider-Man Marvel 340,155

19) Fantastic Four Marvel 329,379

20) Flash DC 325,404

23) Thor Marvel 296,251

26) Brave & Bold DC 279,406

30) Avengers Marvel 269,994

31) Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos Marvel 268,499

36) Strange Tales Marvel 261,069

38) Tales to Astonish Marvel 256,145

39) G.I. Combat DC 255,496

40) X-Men Marvel 255,070

45) Tales of Suspense Marvel 252,239

46) Showcase DC 250,512

50) Green Lantern DC 245,699

53) Our Army at War DC 243,906

55) Atom DC 232,850

57) Blackhawk DC 228,453

58) Aquaman DC 228,403

62) Wonder Woman DC 220,168

64) Star-Spangled War Stories DC 215,495

65) Kid Colt Outlaw Marvel 214,555

66) Tomahawk DC 212,954

67) Adventures of Jerry Lewis DC 211,934

68) Challengers of the Unknown DC 210,316

69) Our Fighting Forces DC 207,885

71) Young Romance DC 204,613

73) Rawhide Kid Marvel 202,823

74) Adventures of Bob Hope DC 194,004

75) Doom Patrol DC 191,420

76) Sugar & Spike DC 190,515

77) Millie the Model Marvel 190,217

78) Tales of the Unexpected DC 185,650

79) House of Mystery DC 183,934

80) Strange Adventures DC 174,922

81) Sea Devils DC 168,731

87) Fox & The Crow DC 142,720

 

1967

 

1) Batman DC 805,700

2) Superman DC 649,300

3) Superboy DC 547,100

4) World's Finest Comics DC 537,200

6) Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen DC 450,700

7) Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane DC 448,400

8) Detective Comics DC 425,700

9) Action Comics DC 420,900

10) Adventure Comics DC 412,800

12) Justice League of America DC 385,800

14) Amazing Spider-Man Marvel 361,663

16) Brave & Bold DC 342,400

17) Fantastic Four Marvel 329,536

21) Thor Marvel 298,219

30) Avengers Marvel 269,139

31) Tales to Astonish Marvel 269,132

32) Flash DC 267,000

34) Uncanny X-Men Marvel 266,034

36) Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos Marvel 260,930

37) Tales of Suspense Marvel 257,342

45) Strange Tales Marvel 241,561

47) Metal Men DC 239,700

50) Aquaman DC 234,200

59) Rawhide Kid Marvel 205,221

61) G.I. Combat DC 202,100

62) Green Lantern DC 201,700

63) Our Army at War DC 196,500

67) Showcase DC 189,500

68) Young Romance DC 187,400

69) Young Love DC 187,400

70) Atom DC 184,100

71) Challengers of the Unknown DC 182,200

72) Adventures of Jerry Lewis DC 180,800

74) Girls' Love Stories DC 178,300

76) Wonder Woman DC 175,000

77) Heart Throbs DC 174,500

78) Millie the Model Marvel 173,519

80) Falling in Love DC 170,400

81) Girls' Romances DC 170,400

82) Tomahawk DC 165,700

83) Tales of the Unexpected DC 162,600

84) Star-Spangled War Stories DC 160,000

85) House of Mystery DC 158,500

86) Doom Patrol DC 157,900

87) Blackhawk DC 157,700

89) Our Fighting Forces DC 152,200

90) Sugar & Spike DC 150,200

91) Secret Hearts DC 149,700

92) Strange Adventures DC 146,600

108) Fox & The Crow DC 114,700

 

1968

 

1) Superman DC 636,400

3) Batman DC 533,450

4) Superboy DC 532,135

5) World's Finest Comics DC 480,115

6) Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane DC 461,725

7) Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen DC 460,560

8) Action Comics DC 423,000

10) Adventure Comics DC 411,200

12) Amazing Spider-Man Marvel 373,303

16) Fantastic Four Marvel 344,865

19) Justice League of America DC 315,500

20) Detective Comics DC 309,850

21) Thor Marvel 295,371

23) Daredevil Marvel 292,423

24) Brave & Bold DC 290,900

25) Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos Marvel 286,747

26) Tales to Astonish/Incredible Hulk Marvel 277,857

27) Avengers Marvel 276,951

29) Tales of Suspense/Captain America Marvel 273,476

30) Uncanny X-Men Marvel 273,360

31) Flash DC 268,025

32) Strange Tales/Doctor Strange Marvel 266,422

39) Rawhide Kid Marvel 216,045

40) Green Lantern DC 211,750

41) G.I. Combat DC 209,640

42) Metal Men DC 206,555

43) Young Love DC 198,115

44) Adventures of Jerry Lewis DC 197,250

45) Aquaman DC 184,650

46) Showcase DC 180,400

47) Sugar & Spike DC 174,410

48) Star-Spangled War Stories DC 170,310

49) Challengers of the Unknown DC 166,450

50) Wonder Woman DC 166,365

51) Tales of the Unexpected DC 165,195

52) Strange Adventures DC 165,190

53) Tomahawk DC 157,250

54) House of Mystery DC 156,350

 

1969

 

2) Superman DC 511,984

3) Superboy DC 465,462

4) Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane DC 397,346

6) Action Comics DC 377,535

7) Amazing Spider-Man Marvel 372,352

8) World's Finest Comics DC 366,618

9) Batman DC 355,782

10) Adventure Comics DC 354,123

12) Fantastic Four Marvel 340,363

17) Thor Marvel 266,368

18) Incredible Hulk Marvel 262,472

21) Daredevil Marvel 245,422

22) Captain America Marvel 243,798

23) Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos Marvel 242,897

24) Brave & Bold DC 242,501

25) Avengers Marvel 239,986

26) Uncanny X-Men Marvel 235,811

27) Justice League of America DC 233,000

30) Flash DC 221,470

31) Detective Comics DC 221,267

36) Rawhide Kid Marvel 204,896

39) G.I. Combat DC 186,264

41) Adventures of Jerry Lewis DC 174,125

42) House of Mystery DC 173,206

43) Sugar & Spike DC 171,227

44) Wonder Woman DC 171,197

45) Green Lantern DC 160,423

46) Aquaman DC 156,307

47) Tales of the Unexpected DC 155,110

48) Star-Spangled War Stories DC 149,170

50) Strange Adventures DC 141,179

51) Challengers of the Unknown DC 140,238

53) Showcase DC 130,219

Since I don't want to leave the above list of Marvel and DC sales in the 60s up permanently, since I feel I should direct people to Comichron for the information instead, please don't quote the post.

 

Note that while it was still the case that DC's top reporting titles were outselling Marvel's in 1966, and Marvel's top reporting titles couldn't touch DC's top reporting titles in sales, the top reporting Marvel titles were by that point beating all DC's reporting titles that didn't regularly feature Superman/boy or Batman other than Metal Men.

Shows what a little cross-media tie-in will do for comic sales.

Did the Archie comics of that year feature Archie and the gang on stage or setting behind drums or somehow capitalize on the image that they were a band?

(In reality, the recording band "The Archies" did not exist. They were a bunch of session musicians brought together to cut individual songs.  There was NO band named "The Archies" at the end of the day.)

To clarify: I think I made the above lists by copy-and-pasting from Mr Miller's and eliminating what I didn't want, so they're his work and not mine.

By the early 70s, the Marvel Expansion had its hits but also its misses. Silver Surfer, Doctor Strange, Nick Fury, Captain Marvel and X-Men were either cancelled or on hiatus. Were Iron Man and/or Daredevil really on the chopping block? Iron Man was a leading Avenger and DD had the Black Widow added to his book.

Then again, the Widow did link the two. She fought Iron Man originally and was now Daredevil's lover. Would that have been the initial hook to draw the pair together? And there had to be something because DD was in San Francisco and IM in Long Island.

It's an odd combo. Two men with secrets that could shatter their lives if revealed. The rich man and the blind lawyer who grew up poor. One man given everything, the other having to earn it. The elitist and the liberal. Could a sightless man teach a billionaire to walk among the people and see their lives? Beyond the power-difference (wealth and armor), maybe Tony Stark needed not a partner or teammate but a friend!

Now I'm kinda sorry the book wasn't done!

Apparently the Archies music was connected to the Archie cartoons, which began with The Archie Show in 1968. "Sugar Sugar" was the song that went to number one, but not the first released as a single. According to the GCD the Archies were introduced Life with Archie #60 in 1967, in the first instalment of a series that was cover featured on #60, ##62-66. (The previous cover-feature was "The Man from R.I.V.E.R.D.A.L.E." series, which continued inside to #63.) Archie's output in the period can be easily surveyed using the newsstand feature at DC Indexes. In 1969/70 the Archies occasionally appeared on the covers of Archie titles but didn't dominate them. The giant Everything's Archie, which started in 1969, is described at Wikipedia's page on the same as "a vehicle for showcasing the newly-created Archie band The Archies", but while it featured the band in the masthead it only sometimes had Archies cover images even early on.

(corrected)

That list particularly interested me for another reason: Last night, drinking my 'cocoa' before I went to sleep,  I was trying to work out, of those 80 Page Giants  - Superman, Jimmy Olsen, Lois Lane, Batman, Flash and JLA - what the next logical title have been, had DC decided to add another title. As I drained by cup I guessed it must have been Green Lantern.

However according to your list, the next best selling DC comic was  ... Blackhawk. Interesting.

Luke Blanchard said:

A while back I went through the lists at Comichron and made a list consisting of Marvel's and DC's titles only because I wanted to get a better sense of Marvel's progress in comparison to DC's over the decade. I think it's OK for me to post it here but I won't leave it up permanently because it's drawn from someone else's information and work. Most DC titles didn't report in 1963 and 1964. Marvel titles are in bold. The numbers on the left represent how the titles place in Comichron's full list of reporting titles for the year. Bear in mind that the titles had different frequencies (variously monthly, bimonthly or eight-times-a-year).

 

1960

 

3) Superman DC 810,000

4) Superboy DC 635,000

6) Batman DC 502,000

7) Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen DC 498,000

8) World's Finest Comics DC 476,000

10) Action Comics DC 458,000

11) Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane DC 458,000

12) Adventure Comics DC 438,000

16) Blackhawk DC 316,000

Unless I’ve missed something, DC first published “annuals”, then the series 80 Page Giant, then started including giant reprint issues in the numbering of its top titles. The annuals I’ve found listed at the GCD are Superman Annual (8 issues; 1960-63), Batman Annual (7 issues; 1961-64), Lois Lane Annual (2 issues; 1962-63), Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer Annual (1 issue; the 1962 edition of the genuinely annual Rudolph series), Flash Annual (1 issue; 1963) and Superboy Annual (1 issue; 1964). 80 Page Giant appeared in 1964-65. Giants began to appear as part of the numbering of DC’s standard titles in 1965 (the earliest of these I've found looking through the galleries at DC Indexes is Justice League of America #39).

 

In 1960 Blackhawk was the best-selling DC title not featuring Superman/boy or Batman, but at that point only Superman had received a giant. In 1961 it was overtaken by Justice League of America (which at that point usually didn't feature Superman and Batman) and Detective Comics. In 1962 it was overtaken by Flash. The next report Comichron has for the title is from 1966, by which point it was also being beaten by Metal Men, The Brave and the Bold (which became Batman's team-up title that year), G.I. Combat, Showcase, Green Lantern, Our Army at War and Atom. So it may be that by the time DC had gotten past Superman/boy features, "Batman" and "Flash" the sales of Blackhawk had dropped to the point where it was no longer a natural "next".

 

I copied and pasted from Mr Miller's list, so it's his work rather than mine.

And there's another similarity. 

DD and IM were both long term soap operas drawn by Gene Colan.

I'm thinking about 3 years of 10 page stories for IM in Tales of Suspense and about 5 years on Daredevil, thought I could be wrong.

...Luke: If you really want me to not quote , please put a link up then !!!!!!!

Luke Blanchard said:

Since I don't want to leave the above list of Marvel and DC sales in the 60s up permanently, since I feel I should direct people to Comichron for the information instead, please don't quote the post.

 

Note that while it was still the case that DC's top reporting titles were outselling Marvel's in 1966, and Marvel's top reporting titles couldn't touch DC's top reporting titles in sales, the top reporting Marvel titles were by that point beating all DC's reporting titles that didn't regularly feature Superman/boy or Batman other than Metal Men.

...I knew about the " Marve/Timely/Atlas  flooded the newsstands " story , I guess it's possible , we're only pointing to one year , 1952 .

  Likewise , I knew about Dell's split into Dell & Gold Key , basically I was referring to the time before that happened .

  I've spoken recently about that old weekly CBG " 1971 " issue that reprinted ALL of the reporting circulation figures printed in 1971 - which , therefore , COVERED 1970 , remember (and included comparidsons at least one year in the past , as well ) .

George Poague said:

I've read that Marvel (aka Atlas) led the industry in sales in 1952, mainly by flooding the newsstands with an incredible number of titles. After that, DC outsold Marvel every year until 1971, although the Disney and Archie titles sometimes outsold DC.

Archie was reportedly the industry's top-selling comic book in 1969, the same year "Sugar Sugar" by the Archies was the nation's most popular song.Heck, I was reading Archie in '69, along with the Marvel books!

DC didn't regain the sales crown until 1986, with help from Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns. Marvel won it back the next year, and it's been a seesaw battle ever since. Or so I've read. Anyone who has reliable sales figures, please post.

...I don't think the Archie comics after the TV show started had CONSISTENT Archies stories (though I think both ARCHIE'S TV LAUGH-OUT and EVERYTHING'S ARCHIE - I think !!!!!!!!! - may have emphasized Archies stories) , but , what I said...However , prior to the TV show , LIFE WITH ARCHIE featured stories of an " Earth-2 " , ha ha , Archies , shown as a three-man group with no females wearing what we now call " frathouse band "-type matching ties and outfits and engaging in fantasy-ish funny adventures - sometimes written in rhyming dialogue/doggerel !!!!!!!!! ( I suppose " verse " is too , formally , strong a word . )

Kirk G said:

Shows what a little cross-media tie-in will do for comic sales.

Did the Archie comics of that year feature Archie and the gang on stage or setting behind drums or somehow capitalize on the image that they were a band?

(In reality, the recording band "The Archies" did not exist. They were a bunch of session musicians brought together to cut individual songs.  There was NO band named "The Archies" at the end of the day.)

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