Daredevil and Iron Man: Together Again?
There was an unusual announcement in the Bullpen Page announcement that as of next month Daredevil and Iron Man were going to be combined into the same book, possibly as a split book.
It was odd, as it seemed to come out of the blue, and at a time when Marvel was jumping the price of their books up to 25 cents.
But the change never happened. That is, the two heroes separate books continued separately.
However, just recently, I was flipping through the covers of Marvel Super-heroes, a reprint book that had variously run the original Avengers and X-men, Sub-Mariner from Tales to Astonish and Daredevil and Incredible Hulk.
But at some point, it would appear that both Iron Man and Daredevil were being run together in reprints.
Could it be that this was the pairing that Marvel's Bullpen Page had intended in their announcement?
Who knows the story behind this?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Luke Blanchard on
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A while back I went through the lists at Comichron and made a list consisting of Marvel's and DC's titles only because I wanted to get a better sense of Marvel's progress in comparison to DC's over the decade. I think it's OK for me to post it here but I won't leave it up permanently because it's drawn from someone else's information and work. Most DC titles didn't report in 1963 and 1964. Marvel titles are in bold. The numbers on the left represent how the titles place in Comichron's full list of reporting titles for the year. Bear in mind that the titles had different frequencies (variously monthly, bimonthly or eight-times-a-year).
1960
3) Superman DC 810,000
4) Superboy DC 635,000
6) Batman DC 502,000
7) Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen DC 498,000
8) World's Finest Comics DC 476,000
10) Action Comics DC 458,000
11) Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane DC 458,000
12) Adventure Comics DC 438,000
16) Blackhawk DC 316,000
17) Detective Comics DC 314,000
18) Flash DC 298,00020) Mystery in Space DC 248,000
21) Challengers of the Unknown DC 228,000
23) Brave & Bold DC 214,000
24) Showcase DC 213,000
25) Wonder Woman DC 213,000
27) Sugar & Spike DC 209,000
28) My Greatest Adventure DC 208,000
29) House of Mystery DC 208,000
30) Strange Adventures DC 207,000
31) House of Secrets DC 194,000
32) Fox & The Crow DC 193,000
35) Tales of the Unexpected DC 192,000
38) Tomahawk DC 180,000
39) All-American Men of War DC 176,000
40) Our Fighting Forces DC 175,000
41) Our Army at War DC 172,000
42) Star-Spangled War Stories DC 169,000
43) Tales to Astonish Marvel 163,156
44) All Star Western DC 154,000
45) Tales of Suspense Marvel 148,929
46) Kid Colt Outlaw Marvel 144,746
1961
2) Superman DC 820,000
3) Superboy DC 655,000
4) Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen DC 520,000
5) Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane DC 515,000
7) Batman DC 485,000
8) Action Comics DC 485,000
9) World's Finest Comics DC 480,000
10) Adventure Comics DC 460,000
13) Justice League of America DC 335,000
14) Detective Comics DC 325,000
16) Blackhawk DC 305,000
17) Flash DC 305,000
19) Green Lantern DC 255,000
21) Brave & Bold DC 245,000
25) Mystery in Space DC 240,000
26) Showcase DC 240,000
28) Challengers of the Unknown DC 235,000
29) Wonder Woman DC 230,000
30) House of Mystery DC 225,000
32) My Greatest Adventure Patrol DC 220,000
33) Rip Hunter, Time Master DC 215,000
34) Strange Adventures DC 210,000
35) Our Fighting Forces DC 210,000
36) House of Secrets DC 205,000
37) Star-Spangled War Stories DC 205,000
38) Sugar & Spike DC 195,000
39) Tales of the Unexpected DC 195,000
40) Tales to Astonish Marvel 184,895
41) Tales of Suspense Marvel 184,635
42) All-American Men of War DC 180,000
45) Fox & The Crow DC 165,000
47) Rawhide Kid Marvel 150,162
1962
1) Superman DC 740,000
2) Superboy DC 605,000
3) Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane DC 490,000
4) Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen DC 470,000
7) Action Comics DC 435,000
8) World's Finest Comics DC 420,000
9) Adventure Comics DC 415,000
10) Batman DC 410,000
11) Justice League of America DC 340,000
14) Flash DC 270,000
16) Detective Comics DC 265,000
19) Blackhawk DC 250,000
23) Green Lantern DC 240,000
24) G.I. Combat DC 240,000
26) Showcase DC 220,000
27) Wonder Woman DC 215,000
28) Brave & Bold DC 210,000
29) Sea Devils DC 205,000
30) Challengers of the Unknown DC 195,000
31) Rip Hunter, Time Master DC 195,000
32) Star-Spangled War Stories DC 195,000
33) Mystery in Space DC 190,000
34) Strange Adventures DC 180,000
35) Tales of the Unexpected DC 180,000
37) House of Mystery DC 175,000
38) My Greatest Adventure DC 175,000
39) Adventures of Jerry Lewis DC 175,000
41) Sugar & Spike DC 160,000
43) Fox & The Crow DC 145,000
44) Modeling with Millie Marvel 143,476
45) Patsy & Hedy Marvel 139,855
46) Tales to Astonish Marvel 139,167
47) Strange Tales Marvel 136,637
48) Journey into Mystery Marvel 132,113
50) Gunsmoke Western Marvel 126,475
51) Tales of Suspense Marvel 126,140
1963
21) Sea Devils DC 203,150
23) Rawhide Kid Marvel 194,390
24) Kid Colt Outlaw Marvel 192,755
25) Tales to Astonish Marvel 189,390
26) Strange Tales Marvel 189,305
27) Tales of Suspense Marvel 188,110
28) Journey into Mystery Marvel 187,895
29) Patsy Walker Marvel 174,375
30) Millie the Model Marvel 173,925
1964
1) Action Comics DC 518,026
14) Metal Men DC 295,513
20) Atom DC 265,304
34) Aquaman DC 226,578
35) Strange Tales Marvel 215,090
36) Tales to Astonish Marvel 207,365
37) Tales of Suspense Marvel 207,065
38) Journey into Mystery Marvel 205,075
40) Sea Devils DC 198,486
42) Rip Hunter, Time Master DC 197,398
43) Rawhide Kid Marvel 187,190
44) Kid Colt Outlaw Marvel 184,405
49) Adventures of Jerry Lewis DC 164,364
50) Adventures of Bob Hope DC 163,346
1965
1) Superman DC 823,829
2) Superboy DC 672,681
3) Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane DC 556,091
4) Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen DC 554,931
5) Action Comics DC 525,254
6) Adventure Comics DC 520,440
8) World's Finest Comics DC 465,842
9) Batman DC 453,745
11) Justice League of America DC 389,285
15) Metal Men DC 334,245
18) G.I. Combat DC 320,607
19) Detective Comics DC 304,414
20) Flash DC 298,151
28) Green Lantern DC 273,527
29) Our Army at War DC 270,100
34) Atom DC 255,254
39) Brave & Bold DC 249,768
40) All-American Men of War DC 247,717
41) Aquaman DC 247,140
46) Star-Spangled War Stories DC 243,700
49) Showcase DC 235,091
50) Journey into Mystery Marvel 232,644
53) Strange Tales Marvel 230,285
54) Tomahawk DC 229,979
57) Tales to Astonish Marvel 224,346
58) Tales of Suspense Marvel 222,060
59) Challengers of the Unknown DC 220,965
61) Millie the Model Marvel 219,427
64) Wonder Woman DC 209,918
65) Adventures of Jerry Lewis DC 209,691
66) Young Love DC 206,456
67) Doom Patrol DC 200,188
68) House of Mystery DC 196,677
69) Kid Colt Outlaw Marvel 193,506
70) Rawhide Kid Marvel 192,540
71) Adventures of Bob Hope DC 191,656
72) Sea Devils DC 182,866
73) Mystery in Space DC 182,376
75) Sugar & Spike DC 175,089
79) Fox & The Crow DC 160,515
1966
1) Batman DC 898,470
2) Superman DC 719,976
3) Superboy DC 608,386
4) Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane DC 530,808
5) Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen DC 523,455
6) World's Finest Comics DC 513,201
8) Action Comics DC 491,135
9) Adventure Comics DC 481,234
10) Justice League of America DC 408,219
11) Detective Comics DC 404,339
12) Metal Men DC 396,506
16) Amazing Spider-Man Marvel 340,155
19) Fantastic Four Marvel 329,379
20) Flash DC 325,404
23) Thor Marvel 296,251
26) Brave & Bold DC 279,406
30) Avengers Marvel 269,994
31) Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos Marvel 268,499
36) Strange Tales Marvel 261,069
38) Tales to Astonish Marvel 256,145
39) G.I. Combat DC 255,496
40) X-Men Marvel 255,070
45) Tales of Suspense Marvel 252,239
46) Showcase DC 250,512
50) Green Lantern DC 245,699
53) Our Army at War DC 243,906
55) Atom DC 232,850
57) Blackhawk DC 228,453
58) Aquaman DC 228,403
62) Wonder Woman DC 220,168
64) Star-Spangled War Stories DC 215,495
65) Kid Colt Outlaw Marvel 214,555
66) Tomahawk DC 212,954
67) Adventures of Jerry Lewis DC 211,934
68) Challengers of the Unknown DC 210,316
69) Our Fighting Forces DC 207,885
71) Young Romance DC 204,613
73) Rawhide Kid Marvel 202,823
74) Adventures of Bob Hope DC 194,004
75) Doom Patrol DC 191,420
76) Sugar & Spike DC 190,515
77) Millie the Model Marvel 190,217
78) Tales of the Unexpected DC 185,650
79) House of Mystery DC 183,934
80) Strange Adventures DC 174,922
81) Sea Devils DC 168,731
87) Fox & The Crow DC 142,720
1967
1) Batman DC 805,700
2) Superman DC 649,300
3) Superboy DC 547,100
4) World's Finest Comics DC 537,200
6) Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen DC 450,700
7) Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane DC 448,400
8) Detective Comics DC 425,700
9) Action Comics DC 420,900
10) Adventure Comics DC 412,800
12) Justice League of America DC 385,800
14) Amazing Spider-Man Marvel 361,663
16) Brave & Bold DC 342,400
17) Fantastic Four Marvel 329,536
21) Thor Marvel 298,219
30) Avengers Marvel 269,139
31) Tales to Astonish Marvel 269,132
32) Flash DC 267,000
34) Uncanny X-Men Marvel 266,034
36) Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos Marvel 260,930
37) Tales of Suspense Marvel 257,342
45) Strange Tales Marvel 241,561
47) Metal Men DC 239,700
50) Aquaman DC 234,200
59) Rawhide Kid Marvel 205,221
61) G.I. Combat DC 202,100
62) Green Lantern DC 201,700
63) Our Army at War DC 196,500
67) Showcase DC 189,500
68) Young Romance DC 187,400
69) Young Love DC 187,400
70) Atom DC 184,100
71) Challengers of the Unknown DC 182,200
72) Adventures of Jerry Lewis DC 180,800
74) Girls' Love Stories DC 178,300
76) Wonder Woman DC 175,000
77) Heart Throbs DC 174,500
78) Millie the Model Marvel 173,519
80) Falling in Love DC 170,400
81) Girls' Romances DC 170,400
82) Tomahawk DC 165,700
83) Tales of the Unexpected DC 162,600
84) Star-Spangled War Stories DC 160,000
85) House of Mystery DC 158,500
86) Doom Patrol DC 157,900
87) Blackhawk DC 157,700
89) Our Fighting Forces DC 152,200
90) Sugar & Spike DC 150,200
91) Secret Hearts DC 149,700
92) Strange Adventures DC 146,600
108) Fox & The Crow DC 114,700
1968
1) Superman DC 636,400
3) Batman DC 533,450
4) Superboy DC 532,135
5) World's Finest Comics DC 480,115
6) Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane DC 461,725
7) Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen DC 460,560
8) Action Comics DC 423,000
10) Adventure Comics DC 411,200
12) Amazing Spider-Man Marvel 373,303
16) Fantastic Four Marvel 344,865
19) Justice League of America DC 315,500
20) Detective Comics DC 309,850
21) Thor Marvel 295,371
23) Daredevil Marvel 292,423
24) Brave & Bold DC 290,900
25) Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos Marvel 286,747
26) Tales to Astonish/Incredible Hulk Marvel 277,857
27) Avengers Marvel 276,951
29) Tales of Suspense/Captain America Marvel 273,476
30) Uncanny X-Men Marvel 273,360
31) Flash DC 268,025
32) Strange Tales/Doctor Strange Marvel 266,422
39) Rawhide Kid Marvel 216,045
40) Green Lantern DC 211,750
41) G.I. Combat DC 209,640
42) Metal Men DC 206,555
43) Young Love DC 198,115
44) Adventures of Jerry Lewis DC 197,250
45) Aquaman DC 184,650
46) Showcase DC 180,400
47) Sugar & Spike DC 174,410
48) Star-Spangled War Stories DC 170,310
49) Challengers of the Unknown DC 166,450
50) Wonder Woman DC 166,365
51) Tales of the Unexpected DC 165,195
52) Strange Adventures DC 165,190
53) Tomahawk DC 157,250
54) House of Mystery DC 156,350
1969
2) Superman DC 511,984
3) Superboy DC 465,462
4) Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane DC 397,346
6) Action Comics DC 377,535
7) Amazing Spider-Man Marvel 372,352
8) World's Finest Comics DC 366,618
9) Batman DC 355,782
10) Adventure Comics DC 354,123
12) Fantastic Four Marvel 340,363
17) Thor Marvel 266,368
18) Incredible Hulk Marvel 262,472
21) Daredevil Marvel 245,422
22) Captain America Marvel 243,798
23) Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos Marvel 242,897
24) Brave & Bold DC 242,501
25) Avengers Marvel 239,986
26) Uncanny X-Men Marvel 235,811
27) Justice League of America DC 233,000
30) Flash DC 221,470
31) Detective Comics DC 221,267
36) Rawhide Kid Marvel 204,896
39) G.I. Combat DC 186,264
41) Adventures of Jerry Lewis DC 174,125
42) House of Mystery DC 173,206
43) Sugar & Spike DC 171,227
44) Wonder Woman DC 171,197
45) Green Lantern DC 160,423
46) Aquaman DC 156,307
47) Tales of the Unexpected DC 155,110
48) Star-Spangled War Stories DC 149,170
50) Strange Adventures DC 141,179
51) Challengers of the Unknown DC 140,238
53) Showcase DC 130,219
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Since I don't want to leave the above list of Marvel and DC sales in the 60s up permanently, since I feel I should direct people to Comichron for the information instead, please don't quote the post.
Note that while it was still the case that DC's top reporting titles were outselling Marvel's in 1966, and Marvel's top reporting titles couldn't touch DC's top reporting titles in sales, the top reporting Marvel titles were by that point beating all DC's reporting titles that didn't regularly feature Superman/boy or Batman other than Metal Men.
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Permalink Reply by Kirk G on
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Shows what a little cross-media tie-in will do for comic sales.
Did the Archie comics of that year feature Archie and the gang on stage or setting behind drums or somehow capitalize on the image that they were a band?
(In reality, the recording band "The Archies" did not exist. They were a bunch of session musicians brought together to cut individual songs. There was NO band named "The Archies" at the end of the day.)
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To clarify: I think I made the above lists by copy-and-pasting from Mr Miller's and eliminating what I didn't want, so they're his work and not mine.
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Permalink Reply by Philip Portelli on
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By the early 70s, the Marvel Expansion had its hits but also its misses. Silver Surfer, Doctor Strange, Nick Fury, Captain Marvel and X-Men were either cancelled or on hiatus. Were Iron Man and/or Daredevil really on the chopping block? Iron Man was a leading Avenger and DD had the Black Widow added to his book.
Then again, the Widow did link the two. She fought Iron Man originally and was now Daredevil's lover. Would that have been the initial hook to draw the pair together? And there had to be something because DD was in San Francisco and IM in Long Island.
It's an odd combo. Two men with secrets that could shatter their lives if revealed. The rich man and the blind lawyer who grew up poor. One man given everything, the other having to earn it. The elitist and the liberal. Could a sightless man teach a billionaire to walk among the people and see their lives? Beyond the power-difference (wealth and armor), maybe Tony Stark needed not a partner or teammate but a friend!
Now I'm kinda sorry the book wasn't done!
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Apparently the Archies music was connected to the Archie cartoons, which began with The Archie Show in 1968. "Sugar Sugar" was the song that went to number one, but not the first released as a single. According to the GCD the Archies were introduced Life with Archie #60 in 1967, in the first instalment of a series that was cover featured on #60, ##62-66. (The previous cover-feature was "The Man from R.I.V.E.R.D.A.L.E." series, which continued inside to #63.) Archie's output in the period can be easily surveyed using the newsstand feature at DC Indexes. In 1969/70 the Archies occasionally appeared on the covers of Archie titles but didn't dominate them. The giant Everything's Archie, which started in 1969, is described at Wikipedia's page on the same as "a vehicle for showcasing the newly-created Archie band The Archies", but while it featured the band in the masthead it only sometimes had Archies cover images even early on.
(corrected)
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Permalink Reply by Dandy Forsdyke on
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That list particularly interested me for another reason: Last night, drinking my 'cocoa' before I went to sleep, I was trying to work out, of those 80 Page Giants - Superman, Jimmy Olsen, Lois Lane, Batman, Flash and JLA - what the next logical title have been, had DC decided to add another title. As I drained by cup I guessed it must have been Green Lantern.
However according to your list, the next best selling DC comic was ... Blackhawk. Interesting.
Luke Blanchard said:A while back I went through the lists at Comichron and made a list consisting of Marvel's and DC's titles only because I wanted to get a better sense of Marvel's progress in comparison to DC's over the decade. I think it's OK for me to post it here but I won't leave it up permanently because it's drawn from someone else's information and work. Most DC titles didn't report in 1963 and 1964. Marvel titles are in bold. The numbers on the left represent how the titles place in Comichron's full list of reporting titles for the year. Bear in mind that the titles had different frequencies (variously monthly, bimonthly or eight-times-a-year).
1960
3) Superman DC 810,000
4) Superboy DC 635,000
6) Batman DC 502,000
7) Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen DC 498,000
8) World's Finest Comics DC 476,000
10) Action Comics DC 458,000
11) Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane DC 458,000
12) Adventure Comics DC 438,000
16) Blackhawk DC 316,000
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Unless I’ve missed something, DC first published “annuals”, then the series 80 Page Giant, then started including giant reprint issues in the numbering of its top titles. The annuals I’ve found listed at the GCD are Superman Annual (8 issues; 1960-63), Batman Annual (7 issues; 1961-64), Lois Lane Annual (2 issues; 1962-63), Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer Annual (1 issue; the 1962 edition of the genuinely annual Rudolph series), Flash Annual (1 issue; 1963) and Superboy Annual (1 issue; 1964). 80 Page Giant appeared in 1964-65. Giants began to appear as part of the numbering of DC’s standard titles in 1965 (the earliest of these I've found looking through the galleries at DC Indexes is Justice League of America #39).
In 1960 Blackhawk was the best-selling DC title not featuring Superman/boy or Batman, but at that point only Superman had received a giant. In 1961 it was overtaken by Justice League of America (which at that point usually didn't feature Superman and Batman) and Detective Comics. In 1962 it was overtaken by Flash. The next report Comichron has for the title is from 1966, by which point it was also being beaten by Metal Men, The Brave and the Bold (which became Batman's team-up title that year), G.I. Combat, Showcase, Green Lantern, Our Army at War and Atom. So it may be that by the time DC had gotten past Superman/boy features, "Batman" and "Flash" the sales of Blackhawk had dropped to the point where it was no longer a natural "next".
I copied and pasted from Mr Miller's list, so it's his work rather than mine.
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And there's another similarity.
DD and IM were both long term soap operas drawn by Gene Colan.
I'm thinking about 3 years of 10 page stories for IM in Tales of Suspense and about 5 years on Daredevil, thought I could be wrong.
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Permalink Reply by Emerkeith Davyjack on
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...Luke: If you really want me to not quote , please put a link up then !!!!!!!
Luke Blanchard said:Since I don't want to leave the above list of Marvel and DC sales in the 60s up permanently, since I feel I should direct people to Comichron for the information instead, please don't quote the post.
Note that while it was still the case that DC's top reporting titles were outselling Marvel's in 1966, and Marvel's top reporting titles couldn't touch DC's top reporting titles in sales, the top reporting Marvel titles were by that point beating all DC's reporting titles that didn't regularly feature Superman/boy or Batman other than Metal Men.
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...I knew about the " Marve/Timely/Atlas flooded the newsstands " story , I guess it's possible , we're only pointing to one year , 1952 .
Likewise , I knew about Dell's split into Dell & Gold Key , basically I was referring to the time before that happened .
I've spoken recently about that old weekly CBG " 1971 " issue that reprinted ALL of the reporting circulation figures printed in 1971 - which , therefore , COVERED 1970 , remember (and included comparidsons at least one year in the past , as well ) .
George Poague said:I've read that Marvel (aka Atlas) led the industry in sales in 1952, mainly by flooding the newsstands with an incredible number of titles. After that, DC outsold Marvel every year until 1971, although the Disney and Archie titles sometimes outsold DC.
Archie was reportedly the industry's top-selling comic book in 1969, the same year "Sugar Sugar" by the Archies was the nation's most popular song.Heck, I was reading Archie in '69, along with the Marvel books!
DC didn't regain the sales crown until 1986, with help from Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns. Marvel won it back the next year, and it's been a seesaw battle ever since. Or so I've read. Anyone who has reliable sales figures, please post.
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...I don't think the Archie comics after the TV show started had CONSISTENT Archies stories (though I think both ARCHIE'S TV LAUGH-OUT and EVERYTHING'S ARCHIE - I think !!!!!!!!! - may have emphasized Archies stories) , but , what I said...However , prior to the TV show , LIFE WITH ARCHIE featured stories of an " Earth-2 " , ha ha , Archies , shown as a three-man group with no females wearing what we now call " frathouse band "-type matching ties and outfits and engaging in fantasy-ish funny adventures - sometimes written in rhyming dialogue/doggerel !!!!!!!!! ( I suppose " verse " is too , formally , strong a word . )
Kirk G said:Shows what a little cross-media tie-in will do for comic sales.
Did the Archie comics of that year feature Archie and the gang on stage or setting behind drums or somehow capitalize on the image that they were a band?
(In reality, the recording band "The Archies" did not exist. They were a bunch of session musicians brought together to cut individual songs. There was NO band named "The Archies" at the end of the day.)
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