DC's Legends of Tomorrow

[Jeff of Earth-J]

[Joe Sherrod]

Can anyone explain the April 4th episode?   I found it very confusing with the 2 sets of Legends....I will watch it again and see if it makes any more sense.
Richard Willis said:

On April 4, Legends of Tomorrow will air its season finale in Flash's time slot, followed by iZombie.

[Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod)]

Had you been watching all along, or did you just jump in on this one? It made sense to me, but it wasn't always clear which Legend was from which timeline, since other than Sara, most of them were dressed the same, or similarly.

[Joe Sherrod]

I have been watching but evidently some of the episodes I saw were repeats so not watched in chronologicol order.
Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod) said:

Had you been watching all along, or did you just jump in on this one? It made sense to me, but it wasn't always clear which Legend was from which timeline, since other than Sara, most of them were dressed the same, or similarly.

[Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod)]

OK, well, a (very) short recap of the most recent episodes, then.

Episode 15: The Legends go to WWI to try to find the blood of Christ, which has the power to destroy the Spear of Destiny. While they're there, they not only lose the blood of Christ to  stray bullet on the battlefield, but the Spear is stolen from them (with the help of Mick, who's resentful of the other Legends who constantly belittle him and tell him to his face that he's not to be trusted. The Legion of Doom use the Spear to rewrite reality.

Episode 16: Doomworld. The Legion of Doom has rewritten reality, and put the Legends into various demeaning positions, working for them. One by one, they wake up to this (aside from Prof Stein), and fight back against the Legion, even though they don't have their powers. In the course of the battle, Snart kills Vixen, and Zoom drops the Spear of Destiny into a giant nuclear engine Jax and Stein created, so that cements the new reality. Except the  Legends decide to find a way to go back to 1916 and fix this mess before it starts -- even though encountering their past selves is an enormous risk.

Problem is, they don't know where Rick & the Waverider are -- although we as the audience realize that the ship has been shrunk down to model size and are sitting in Damian Dahrk's office. So there are a few hurdles to overcome before being able to travel back in time.

And that's where things stand at the beginning of last night's episode! Watch it again, and it will make about the amount of sense that any time travel show makes (but not much more). 

[Joe Sherrod]

Thanks for the recap...I will rewatch last nights episode.
Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod) said:

OK, well, a (very) short recap of the most recent episodes, then.

Episode 15: The Legends go to WWI to try to find the blood of Christ, which has the power to destroy the Spear of Destiny. While they're there, they not only lose the blood of Christ to  stray bullet on the battlefield, but the Spear is stolen from them (with the help of Mick, who's resentful of the other Legends who constantly belittle him and tell him to his face that he's not to be trusted. The Legion of Doom use the Spear to rewrite reality.

Episode 16: Doomworld. The Legion of Doom has rewritten reality, and put the Legends into various demeaning positions, working for them. One by one, they wake up to this (aside from Prof Stein), and fight back against the Legion, even though they don't have their powers. In the course of the battle, Snart kills Vixen, and Zoom drops the Spear of Destiny into a giant nuclear engine Jax and Stein created, so that cements the new reality. Except the  Legends decide to find a way to go back to 1916 and fix this mess before it starts -- even though encountering their past selves is an enormous risk.

Problem is, they don't know where Rick & the Waverider are -- although we as the audience realize that the ship has been shrunk down to model size and are sitting in Damian Dahrk's office. So there are a few hurdles to overcome before being able to travel back in time.

And that's where things stand at the beginning of last night's episode! Watch it again, and it will make about the amount of sense that any time travel show makes (but not much more). 

[Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod)]

I hope you enjoy it more this time! 

I liked this season a lot more than Season 1. The characters were better, and Mick, Sara, and Jax particularly came into their own. (Ray seems a little diminished from Season 1, and as good as Victor Garber is, the writers keep limiting his character to one patronizing note.) Even Rip improved from last season!

Unlike last season, there's no characters I really want to see gone this time -- though I think Vixen in particular is underdeveloped, both as a character with motivations other than Justice (and Romance) and as a hero with useful powers (she could use them so much more effectively!).

If you guys haven't seen it, I recommend the first season of Timeless on Hulu. I'm not sure if there'll be a second season (it definitely deserves one!), but it's a time travel show that takes things a little more seriously -- sure, there's a big conspiracy that I didn't quite understand (we started watching halfway through), but the character work is excellent, particularly on the main three characters on the excursion team (the pilot, the historian, and the soldier). It's really solid stuff, from the creators of Supernatural and The Shield. Which is an odd mix in and of itself, but I think why it works so well. The last couple episodes were a little rushed -- they expected to get 22 episodes, and they only got 16 this season -- but the episodes we saw before that -- one in the old west, one at the Chicago world's fair, and one at a hotel in Florida during a storm in the 1980s -- were excellent.

[Richard Willis]

Timeless is great. Apparently it isn't certain if it will be renewed. I recommend watching the whole season. The amazing thing is that, unlike other time travel shows, people in the past (unknown and famous) wind up dying and affecting the time stream in subtle ways. The conspiracy is murky no matter when you started watching, but it has high stakes in that world domination is the plan.

[Richard Willis]

The good news, now that Legends has improved, is that it has been renewed for another season. All of the Arrowverse shows have been renewed.

[Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod)]

I definitely intend to go back and watch the episodes I missed. I really dug this show!

Richard Willis said:

Timeless is great. Apparently it isn't certain if it will be renewed. I recommend watching the whole season. The amazing thing is that, unlike other time travel shows, people in the past (unknown and famous) wind up dying and affecting the time stream in subtle ways. The conspiracy is murky no matter when you started watching, but it has high stakes in that world domination is the plan.

[Captain Comics]

I've caught up on all the Berlanti shows except Legends, so my wife and I are doing that now. I'm encouraged by what I've read here, because we just watched the King Arthur episode and it really stunk up the place.

First, let me backtrack to the previous episode where Steel introduces Vixen as his wife in 1776, and the only response is "you must do things differently in Boston." No, they didn't. It angers me, because if we don't remember our history -- especially cancers like slavery -- we are doomed to repeat them.

Second, our resident historian keeps referring to Britain in 507 A.D. as "Medieval England." First, there was no England yet. The Brits of Arthur's time were fighting invading Saxons and Angles, who eventually won (The myth of Arthur is that he held them off for a time after winning the Battle of Badon Hill, which may or may not be historical), and then eventually set up the kingdoms that will eventually combine to be England (Angle-land). Second, the armor. Yes, it was explained that Stargirl set that up. (How? Is she a metallurgist? I know ABOUT armor, doesn't mean I can make it.) But introducing plate armor 900 years before it came into use doesn't change history? And third, technically the "Medieval" period began in the 5th century, but we're not from from the fall of Rome here, and calling it Medieval is a stretch.

And finally, Guinevere. The minute she was introduced, I turned to my wife and said, "set the countdown for the Lesbian Reveal." Yawn. Attention, TV writers: This is officially a cliche now.

Speaking of diversity, I bought it without question when the lesbian was made captain -- she clearly had the chops. But when she's incapacitated, they go with the youngest, least experienced, and most hot-headed on the team? Oh, yeah, he's black. To clarify: I have no problem with a black leader. It just doesn't make sense in this case, and the straining for diversity is straining my suspension of disbelief. Aside from Rory, Jax is probably the last guy I'd pick to lead the team. (Vixen would be my choice.)

Lastly, what's up with Stargirl's lips? Didn't know they had cosmetic surgery in 507 A.D. And her staying there for love -- say, isn't Sara Lance-a-lot supposed to break up Arthur's marriage? -- is quite a sacrifice, given the state of hygiene, medicine, dentistry and so forth. She's going to die for love, because she's not likely to survive childbirth. She's almost certain not to live past 45 in any case.

But at least Rip finally works -- he's much better as a villain. And as I mentioned, the comments above give me hope that the future will be better. It needs to be -- I'm having a hard time keeping my wife on board!

[Richard Willis]

Jax hot-headed? I guess so. I've seen flames coming out of the top of his head.

Episode 13, Land of the Lost (dinosaurs) is a little shaky, but everything after that is pretty good, especially the end of the season.

[ClarkKent_DC]

Captain Comics said:

I've caught up on all the Berlanti shows except Legends, so my wife and I are doing that now. I'm encouraged by what I've read here, because we just watched the King Arthur episode and it really stunk up the place.

First, let me backtrack to the previous episode where Steel introduces Vixen as his wife in 1776, and the only response is "you must do things differently in Boston." No, they didn't. It angers me, because if we don't remember our history -- especially cancers like slavery -- we are doomed to repeat them.

Second, our resident historian keeps referring to Britain in 507 A.D. as "Medieval England." First, there was no England yet. The Brits of Arthur's time were fighting invading Saxons and Angles, who eventually won (The myth of Arthur is that he held them off for a time after winning the Battle of Badon Hill, which may or may not be historical), and then eventually set up the kingdoms that will eventually combine to be England (Angle-land). Second, the armor. Yes, it was explained that Stargirl set that up. (How? Is she a metallurgist? I know ABOUT armor, doesn't mean I can make it.) But introducing plate armor 900 years before it came into use doesn't change history? And third, technically the "Medieval" period began in the 5th century, but we're not from from the fall of Rome here, and calling it Medieval is a stretch.

As noted over here, if it's historical accuracy you want, Legends of Tomorrrow is NOT the place to get it.

Captain Comics said:

Speaking of diversity, I bought it without question when the lesbian was made captain -- she clearly had the chops. But when she's incapacitated, they go with the youngest, least experienced, and most hot-headed on the team? Oh, yeah, he's black. To clarify: I have no problem with a black leader. It just doesn't make sense in this case, and the straining for diversity is straining my suspension of disbelief. Aside from Rory, Jax is probably the last guy I'd pick to lead the team. (Vixen would be my choice.)

I'd choose Jax -- the guy who knows the most about the Waverider's capabilities -- over Professor Stein, who has proven more than once that he's educated, and even intelligent, but not very smart. Plus, Stein has already bombed as leader and sheepishly had to admit Sara is far better at it than he is. I'd choose Jax over Steel, the resident historian who doesn't even know Britain in A.D. 507 is not "Medieval England," because Steel is the new guy and Jax has been with the team longer and has a better handle on each person's capabilities. I might even choose Jax over Ray Palmer, whose notions of heroism often interfere with his judgment. But that's just me.

Captain Comics said:

Lastly, what's up with Stargirl's lips? Didn't know they had cosmetic surgery in 507 A.D. And her staying there for love -- say, isn't Sara Lance-a-lot supposed to break up Arthur's marriage? -- is quite a sacrifice, given the state of hygiene, medicine, dentistry and so forth. She's going to die for love, because she's not likely to survive childbirth. She's almost certain not to live past 45 in any case.

As noted above ...

I've said I think "this show is increasingly sinking into the realm of 'turn your brain off and watch,' " but I agree with Rob Staeger that it's an improvement. I wasn't actively rooting for people to die get lost this season, especially as the most annoying one, Rip, was absent for a stretch and then resurfaced as an American(!). Then he was retooled into a believably menacing villain, before being turned back into petulant Brit mode.

As for the finale, I followed it well enough, but I have to turn off my brain again, else I would wonder about things ...

... like, when they found the miniature Waverider and then got the A.T.O.M. suit to enlarge it, wouldn't it have made sense to go outside to do the enlarging, instead of having the full-sized ship bust through the roof. Sure, it looked cool and all, but -- !

... and about going back in time to fix reality, which Rip insisted from Day One they must NEVER NEVER do (yeah, right) ... I always wonder this about time travel stories: If you can go back in time, why cut it close?

Like, this bunch going back to 1916 to recover the McGuffin -- I mean, the vial with the Blood of Christ -- that's buried in a field where a fierce battle is going on. Since they know where the McGuffin is buried, why not go back the day before the battle, or the week before, or a month before, or a year before, or a decade or a century before -- or any day when there isn't a fierce battle going on and they don't have to run the risk of encountering their other selves! Why not pick a day when nobody's around? 

Ah, there I go with my brain on again ... 

I'm glad that Vixen is still on the show. They seemed to be building up to her departing to fulfill her destiny, but as she rightly said, that can come later.