Do we not have a thread for this film? I couldn't find one. My wife and I watched it on Disney+ last night (we're still not going to theaters), and here are some of my reactions.
First, as The Baron is wont to do, a Spoiler Space and Random Picture.
OK, that's all I can think of for now. What do y'all think?
Tags:
Shuma-Gorath was named by Robert E. Howard, not Lovecraft. Who knows whether there is even a clear holder of the rights these days.
Nice observations, Cap.
The movie was exciting, and yes, being a full horror entry was nice as well. Bruce Campbell's scenes were very well done too, particularly the second.
I wonder what the third eye is supposed to mean exactly. Hopefully we will see Umar and Dormammu in Doctor Strange 3. Looking forward to it.
I have no idea what the third eye can do, or if it's a Darkhold curse, or what. I suspect it's mostly bad news, given that Sinister Strange* said "The Darkhold exacts a heavy toll," and the line was repeated somewhere.
Also, I forgot to mention the fight between Stranges using musical notes. At least two actual compositions were used. Sinister Strange was using Beethoven's Fifth, while Strange-616 was using something from Bach I reognized, but whose name I don't know.
* We usually have the Closed Captions on so we don't miss any key dialogue, and it labeled that guy "Sinister Strange." The dead Strange was labeled "Defender Strange."
Some thoughts:
* Plus, by and large, I like Marvel movies over Brand Ecch. With Marvel movies, I'm always anticipating the next one and will catch it in theaters. For movies from The Other Guys, it's always *yawn" whenever I get around to it. Case in point: I completely missed the window to see The Suicide Squad in theaters OR on HBO Max; I finally saw it when HBO Max carried it again. Another case in point: Still haven't seen The Batman yet.
(However, I must admit, I did not see Eternals; I have little interest in the characters or the comic, so a movie version didn't draw me at all.)
One other thing. At some point I turned to my wife and said, "When did Benedict Wong become an action movie star?" He wears it well!
Captain Comics said:
It was quite a show. I mean that in the most positive sense. It was a spectacle.
I couldn’t agree more.
Also, Zombie Strange.Ha!
I’m glad it wasn’t the Marvel Zombies universe.
Loved that this was basically a horror movie.
Apparently, some parents regretted taking their little kids, expecting a superhero movie. Some nightmares were had. Previously seeing half of the heroes turn to dust was pretty horrific, though.
Heck, some things I watched gave me nightmares as a kid. I think it’s a rite of passage.
I was also impressed with the trip Strange and Chavez took through the multiverse. I'm told it was 40 seconds, and 20 universes. I believe it. Tremendous imagination and craft.
That was when I had to start staring at the screen. I literally couldn’t take my eyes off it.
I knew nothing about America Chavez before seeing this movie. I was enthralled by the character and impressed with Xochitl Gomez’ portrayal. Whatever they are paying the people casting their movies and TV shows they deserve more.
Yes, I caught the brief images of The Living Tribunal. I missed the Hydra dirigible, but I have no doubt it was there. There were some other suggestions of MCU callbacks, but my pre-frontal lobe was too overwhelmed to think about them long enough to remember them.
I saw some recognizable things, but probably missed a lot. I have several review articles that I haven’t read yet, then I’ll know just how much I missed.
The WandaVision theme plays when Wanda makes her first appearance.
I’m glad I had captioning running. It alerted me to musical choices, etc.
Speaking of which, there was a big flash of red magic when the shrine on Wundagore was collapsing. I assume that's Wanda teleporting out. They're not going to kill her off, I don't think. And what's a collapsing mountain to the Scarlet Witch? An annoyance.
I came to the same conclusion.
I love that Cloak has been repaired, but with different colors. And that the damage was off-center, so the repair job doesn't look like a Superman-style cape logo. It's just ... eccentric, like all things Strange.
Was Cloak established in this way in the comics? I haven’t read anything with Doctor Strange since forever.
And if it wasn't for Strange, all those dusted people would have stayed dusted, including YOU, nincompoop. Strange does break the rules, and sometimes he's reckless, but what he did in the Thanos War was nothing short of saving the universe.
As bad as it all was, it was established that it was literally the only way to save the universe.
Clea! Boy, Charlize Theron gets around these days! I hope Clea's connection to Umar and Dormammu is intact, to complicate matters. It will be fun to see Theron and Cumberbatch, two excellent actors, do scenes together. Looking forward to Doctor Strange 3!
Same here!
Oswald the Lucky Rabbit was on the TV in the Maximoff home on Earth-838. That was Walt Disney's first creation, before Mickey Mouse.
I saw that, too.
Hayley Atwell as Captain Carter was awesome, and if she doesn't continue in the MCU in some fashion, it will be a crime against entertainment. She got to use Cap's best line ("I can do this all day") and was the only Illuminati to lay a glove on Wanda.
I’m for that!
We usually have the Closed Captions on so we don't miss any key dialogue, and it labeled that guy "Sinister Strange." The dead Strange was labeled "Defender Strange."
It also identified all of the music. I know a little Spanish, but I’m better at reading it than listening to it. The untranslated Spanish spoken by America was simple but seeing it on the screen helped me understand it.
One other thing. At some point I turned to my wife and said, "When did Benedict Wong become an action movie star?" He wears it well!
I also enjoyed the long-established character Wong played once again by Wong.
Luis Olavo de Moura Dantas said:
Shuma-Gorath was named by Robert E. Howard, not Lovecraft.
I did not know that. Moreover, I was assuming things I did not actually know, and wasn't aware that I was assuming those things — and you corrected me, Luis, so that I know better now. That is literally one of my most favorite things in the world, to be corrected when I am being arrogant and stupid. I hate it when other people are arrogant and stupid, so when I am, I want to be corrected. Thanks again.
ClarkKent_DC said:
I had not seen WandaVision beforehand, nor any of the Marvel TV shows as I don't have Disney+. Although it is nice that stories in the Marvel Cinematic Universe are well-integrated, I have to admit I don't like the notion that you have to watch other movies or shows to appreciate the one right in front of you; that's too much like homework.
I agree in principle, but outside of that, I have to say: There are a million TV shows and movies where nothing is integrated. This is the one thing in the world that is, and it's done well. If you don't like it, well, you don't. But I hope you can follow along anyhow, because I do think Marvel Studios does make an effort on that score.
But if not ... well, again, this is a singular thing that I honestly don't want to be watered down. This is for US, the fanboys, and we've waited long enough.
ClarkKent_DC said:
I liked the surprise of Professor X and Reed Richards (although I'm not sold on John Krasinski in the role), and Captain Carter and Captain Marvel.
I agree 100%. I don't think Krasinski worked very well, but did you know he was cast because of Internet fandom wanting him to be cast? And that he is NOT necessarily going to be Reed Richards when the FF are introduced to the MCU? Kevin Feige said he did this (and Krasinski did this) as a goof, to satisfy the online folks who had been wanting it.
That's pretty cool by my lights. It will be MORE cool if Krasinski is NOT Reed Richards when the FF happen. Because, as you said, it didn't really work.
And it's all OK in the broader MCU sense, because this was a parallel world. We had a different Captain America, a different Mordo, a different Captain Marvel, etc. Krasinski was probably an "alt" Reed Richards, and doesn't tie Marvel's hands for the 616 MCU.
ClarkKent_DC said:
Clea? Really! I'm sold for the next one!
Ohhhhhhh yeah.
ClarkKent_DC said:
By and large, I like Marvel movies over Brand Ecch. With Marvel movies, I'm always anticipating the next one and will catch it in theaters. For movies from The Other Guys, it's always *yawn" whenever I get around to it. Case in point: I completely missed the window to see The Suicide Squad in theaters OR on HBO Max; I finally saw it when HBO Max carried it again. Another case in point: Still haven't seen The Batman yet.
Same. And I always thought I was more interested in the Marvel movies because of the interconnectedness. But this conversation has changed my mind.
Now I think I like Marvel movies more than DC movies because Marvel movies care about the characters more. They give us what we want, instead of re-inventing Superman for what Zack Snyder wants or re-inventing Batman for what Christopher Nolan wants.
Case in point: I've loved Doctor Strange since the mid-1960s, and Marvel gave me that exact character. DC does Batman movies, but it's a Batman I don't really know. It's a pretty good Batman, but it's not the New Look Batman, or the O'Neil/Adams Batman, or any other Batman I recognize from the comics.
Marvel gives me what I know and want and have "owned" since I was a boy. DC gives me movies starring names I know, but featuring characters that Hollywood has invented. It's like the Catwoman movie, where the screenwriters said, "Yeah, you know Catwoman as written by Bill Finger and John Broome and Ed Brubaker. But eff those guys. We can write a better Catwoman, and here it is. Because we're smarter than you. Enjoy!"
ClarkKent_DC said:
I did not see Eternals; I have little interest in the characters or the comic, so a movie version didn't draw me at all.)
I love talking about Eternals. Because there are movie critics and Big Name Directors who hate Marvel movies, and their critique is that they're all the same. But then when Marvel does a movie that is manifestly NOT the same ... they still hate it, and make the same complaints!
Tells you where their heads are.
As for my head, I found Eternals uneven. I wasn't thrilled. But since it was connected to a larger universe, I gave it MORE allowance than I would have otherwise. Maybe some of those story beats will pay off in a later movie. The movie I was watching didn't give me much.
Captain Comics said:
Now I think I like Marvel movies more than DC movies because Marvel movies care about the characters more. They give us what we want, instead of re-inventing Superman for what Zack Snyder wants or re-inventing Batman for what Christopher Nolan wants.
Case in point: I've loved Doctor Strange since the mid-1960s, and Marvel gave me that exact character. DC does Batman movies, but it's a Batman I don't really know. It's a pretty good Batman, but it's not the New Look Batman, or the O'Neil/Adams Batman, or any other Batman I recognize from the comics.
Marvel gives me what I know and want and have "owned" since I was a boy. DC gives me movies starring names I know, but featuring characters that Hollywood has invented. It's like the Catwoman movie, where the screenwriters said, "Yeah, you know Catwoman as written by Bill Finger and John Broome and Ed Brubaker. But eff those guys. We can write a better Catwoman, and here it is. Because we're smarter than you. Enjoy!"
Yeah ... The Other Guys think they're making Art, and maybe they are and maybe they aren't. They also think that making crowd-pleasing movies is a bad thing, which it is not.
Good Lord, Catwoman certainly failed both on the score of making Art and on the score of making a crowd-pleasing movie. It certainly failed on the score of writing a better Catwoman than Bill Finger and John Broome and Ed Brubaker ... and denied us more of the Michelle Pfeiffer Catwoman from Batman Returns, which is what the audience really wanted!
Captain Comics said:
ClarkKent_DC said:
I liked the surprise of Professor X and Reed Richards (although I'm not sold on John Krasinski in the role), and Captain Carter and Captain Marvel.I agree 100%. I don't think Krasinski worked very well, but did you know he was cast because of Internet fandom wanting him to be cast? And that he is NOT necessarily going to be Reed Richards when the FF are introduced to the MCU? Kevin Feige said he did this (and Krasinski did this) as a goof, to satisfy the online folks who had been wanting it.
That's pretty cool by my lights.
Case in point. Satisfying the audience is not a bad thing.
Captain Comics said:
Now I think I like Marvel movies more than DC movies because Marvel movies care about the characters more. They give us what we want, instead of re-inventing Superman for what Zack Snyder wants or re-inventing Batman for what Christopher Nolan wants.
This reminds me of when Marvel gave J. Michael Straczynski an almost-free hand in writing Spider-Man, which resulted in the worst stories ever told by Marvel. Hiring a superstar creator is always a big deal and a sales coup. IMO, going in they need a tight agreement that characters will not be changed unrecognizably. Somebody needs to "sit on them" and know the difference between very good writing and the opposite.
In the case of DC, they need a publisher like Jenette Kahn. Someone smart, invested in the characters and who needs to be at the table for movie decisions.
Richard Willis said:
I’m glad it wasn’t the Marvel Zombies universe.
Me too. I found those series really depressing.
Some things I watched gave me nightmares as a kid. I think it’s a rite of passage.
Former comic book writer Gerard Jones wrote a book, Killing Monsters: Why Children Need Fantasy, Super Heroes, and Make-Believe Violence, which basically argues that children should be exposed to scary things (in a safe environment, like a movie theater) so they can learn to process them.
Of course, at this point I don't think anyone's going to listen to Gerard Jones in regard to the welfare of children.
I knew nothing about America Chavez before seeing this movie. I was enthralled by the character and impressed with Xochitl Gomez’ portrayal. Whatever they are paying the people casting their movies and TV shows they deserve more.
I wrote somewhere, maybe on the site somewhere, that Marvel does have an outstanding track record on casting. And one reason, I think, is because everybody wants to work for them, so they get their pick.
Was Cloak established in this way in the comics? I haven’t read anything with Doctor Strange since forever.
I don't think so. It has operated separately from Strange, but on his mental commands. I don't think it was ever portrayed as sentient -- unless that's a recent innovation. I have read some Strange since I stopped buying comprehensively in 2010, but not all of it.
I know a little Spanish, but I’m better at reading it than listening to it.
I find that true of all the languages I'm familiar with. I expect it's true of people who learn English as adults. Can you imagine learning English in England and then trying to understand someone from Maine or Texas? Better to read it.
One question: do we have any basis for the distinction between sorcery and witchcraft that led Stephen to seek Wanda?
IIRC the movie has Wong and Stephen noticing some runes that apparently indicate witchcraft at work. I don't think we are supposed to pay too much attention to that, but I wonder.
I don't recall a specific verbal reference to the difference between sorcery and witchcraft, but one could have flown by me in WandaVision. This I do know: Black magic is purple (Agatha, Sinister Strange). White magic is gold (Strange, Wong, Kamar Taj students). And Chaos magic is red (Wanda).
So maybe all witchcraft is Chaos magic?
Luis Olavo de Moura Dantas said:
One question: do we have any basis for the distinction between sorcery and witchcraft that led Stephen to seek Wanda?
IIRC the movie has Wong and Stephen noticing some runes that apparently indicate witchcraft at work. I don't think we are supposed to pay too much attention to that, but I wonder.