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Here are the comments from the previous thread, for easy reading!

 Reply by Jeff of Earth-J6 hours agoDelete

SEASON TWO OPENER [with SPOILERS]: A couple of times I thought the episode drifted dangerously close to camp, but when that happened I just reminded myself: “Tim Burton.” They did a good job of reintroducing the characters under the new status quo, but I think they erred in allowing Jim Gordon the cross the line and actually commit murder. “The ends justify the means” seems to be the lesson of the season opener.

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Well, Gordon was trying to leave and was being shot at by a criminal. OTOH, he was trying to leave after acting on behalf of another criminal. His being reinstated and replacing Commissioner Loeb (chuckle) with Sarah Essen is beneficial for the city. He could have left town without this sin on his conscience, felt good about himself and left Gotham in worse shape.

I enjoyed what they're doing with the Arkham inmates, including Barbara.

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I think Barbara works great as a crazy villain. I finally like the character!

I'm writing about Gotham this week in my column, so I'll have more to say there. But shouldn't we have a new thread for Season Two so we don't have to deal with 40-plus pages every week?

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Gordon killed a man while "trying to leave" an armed robbery. I call that "felony murder."

The theme seems to be "Betray your principles for the greater good." Not a great message, IMO. Batman/Bruce can get away with that because he's damaged and doesn't have high principles. But as I remember, Falcone followed that motto too. What I see is Gordon lost his job, so he joined Penguin's mob to get his job back and committed armed robbery and killed his target.

There may be greater good there, but it looks pretty selfish. You're not all that, Jimbo. How much cleaner is Gotham?

I'd rather have seen Gordon become a private eye for a few episodes, gather evidence against Loeb and bring him down without Penguin, with the new commissioner reinstating him. The way it played out reminded me a bit too much of Man of Steel's theme (Whatever Works), and I'd prefer it had adopted Smallville's theme (There's Always an Alternative to Killing). It would have been a good life lesson for Bruce, rather than actually following his cold-hearted advice.

I agree with you guys, I'm finally liking Barbara, because she's actually got some personality, albeit twisted. I laughed at those prison outfits, especially the striped skirt she got to wore. Holy Batman TV Show! The notion that the inmates hang around in coed groups like something out of Grease was pretty funny too.

I was glad to see James Frain, as he seems to appear in every show I've been watching recently (White Queen, Grimm, Sleepy Hollow, Agent Carter, and Orphan Black). So at least I know I'm watching a geek TV show, if I had any doubts. He is a busy guy (granted, I'm catching up on a lot of stuff right now, but it's quite a streak).

Speaking of coincidences, I watched Gotham last night, then watched the week's episode of Fear the Walking Dead, and both used Lou Reed's "Perfect Day" as theme music. What are the chances they'd both pick the same music to use ironically? It's not a good thing when your theme music is the same as a zombie show.

-- MSA

Mr. Silver Age said:

I agree with you guys, I'm finally liking Barbara, because she's actually got some personality, albeit twisted. I laughed at those prison outfits, especially the striped skirt she got to wore. Holy Batman TV Show! The notion that the inmates hang around in coed groups like something out of Grease was pretty funny too.

It may be that the actress was cast because she was good at playing dark and twisted. This explains why we didn't like her as Jim's love interest. It also explains her odd reaction when she found Selina and Ivy camped in her home that time.

I was glad to see James Frain, as he seems to appear in every show I've been watching recently (White Queen, Grimm, Sleepy Hollow, Agent Carter, and Orphan Black). So at least I know I'm watching a geek TV show, if I had any doubts. He is a busy guy (granted, I'm catching up on a lot of stuff right now, but it's quite a streak).

He is everywhere. If anyone but me watched the short-lived TV show The Cape he played the main bad guy.

I noticed the "Perfect Day" coincidence too, MSA. (It helps when you watch the shows nearly back to back!) I had actually never heard the song before -- let's just allow I'm culturally illiterate and move on, shall we? -- so is the song itself ironic? Or is Lou Reed (of all people) really singing an upbeat and chipper song?

And I'm with you that themes/lessons of both Gotham and Man of Steel are not only out of character for superheroes, but just plain terrible for anybody. I'd like to see your suggestion take root, where the (terrible) obvious solution presents itself, but our heroes challenge themselves to find a better way.

Considering the languid tune and the few lyrics there are to work with (and that it's Lou Reed), I'm guessing it's about heroin (http://www.metrolyrics.com/perfect-day-lyrics-lou-reed.html). I can see Nick singing it as he lays under the bed with the morphine drip. There was still good music in 1972, Cap, but it was fading fast. I was in college, and it wasn't pretty.

I probably wouldn't see the deficiencies in these heroes so obviously if Smallville hadn't made it work so well to show there's always an alternative to the easy way out of killing your problems away. I didn't see how it was going to happen sometimes, but he always found a way, often not too wildly implausible, even when everyone was telling Clark he had to kill.

My problem with Gordon now is that I see the damage he's done personally and how he's always taking the easy way by going to Penguin, and I don't see how he's cleaned up the city by jailing a few criminals (especially after he backed down from the Mayor and others when they threatened Barbara). And, let's face it--by definition, we know his efforts to clean up Gotham are going to fall a little short for the next, I'm guessing, 10 years.

It's getting harder to root for the guy, especially when he follows the advice of a revenge-obsessed 13-year-old. Your prefrontal cortex is fully developed, Jim.

-- MSA

The chemistry between Jim Gordon and Leslie Thompkins was more than just acting: "Morena Baccarin Pregnant With 'Gotham' Costar Ben McKenzie's Baby"

Oh, right, Baccarin is in Gotham, too, now! I was just thinking how if Terriers was still on the air, Gotham would need a different Harvey Bullock. And Baccarin was in Firefly, the most celebrated one-season wonder of them all! Oh, why must shows I love be sacrificed to bring us this show, so successful and so half-baked? The Internet was right: Television has no pity.

LOL! I'm not sure that's exactly how it goes: Sorry, Morena, we really need you on Gotham, so I guess we'll have to cancel Firefly (the timeline doesn't work for that, but you get the idea). It's interesting that some bounce from one cancelled show right to another--or are James Frain. He's so ubiquitous that I said to Mary Kay, "Hey, guess who's on Orphan Black?" and she said "James Frain."

Along the same lines, I'm always surprised when someone has a big supporting role on two series at once. Even if they're filming at different times of the year (and they often aren't) are there SO FEW actors in Hollywood some have to double up?

I had a related feeling with Harvey. This summer I was catching up on Vikings and watching the second season, in which Donal Logue played a warrior king. But I knew that after that season ended, he went on to a full-time major role in Gotham. That didn't bode well for him surviving the season, which he didn't. Of course, most of the Vikings don't.

With short-run series, they might even be able to fit a role in during a hiatus, and there's getting to be more of those. But when I haven't finished a season, and I see that actor show up as starring in another show in the fall, I know trouble's ahead.

-- MSA



Mr. Silver Age said:

LOL! I'm not sure that's exactly how it goes: Sorry, Morena, we really need you on Gotham, so I guess we'll have to cancel Firefly (the timeline doesn't work for that, but you get the idea). It's interesting that some bounce from one cancelled show right to another--or are James Frain. He's so ubiquitous that I said to Mary I had a related feeling with Harvey. This summer I was catching up on Vikings and watching the second season, in which Donal Logue played a warrior king. But I knew that after that season ended, he went on to a full-time major role in Gotham. That didn't bode well for him surviving the season, which he didn't. Of course, most of the Vikings don't.

*chuckle* One of my favorite lines in Vikings is when Bjorn tells his father he was playing with friends, and Ragnar says "I had a lot of friends when I was your age." Beat. "They're all dead now."

Morena Baccarin was in the Showtime series Homeland from 2011 to 2013 playing the wife of the ill-fated Marine POW. She also was the voice of Dr. Wells' computer, Gideon, in The Flash Season 1, and has done several live action and voice-over roles in comics- and science fiction-related shows.

Masi Oka will be playing Hiro in three of the thirteen episodes of Heroes Reborn while he also has a regular role on Hawaii Five-0.

I have heard actors tell stories about playing different characters on different shows (movies AND live theater) by running, sometimes literally, back-and-forth between both jobs.

If some actors are more in demand than others it is because they are worth it. Just because another actor would like the job doesn't mean they are entitled to it or would be hired.,

Masi Oka will be playing Hiro in three of the thirteen episodes of Heroes Reborn while he also has a regular role on Hawaii Five-0.

That's a different situation, though, as he was a key player in the original Heroes. Now that it's rebooting or continuing or whatever, he's returning to the same role even though he's starring somewhere else. No doubt he' appearing in so few because he's too busy to do more.

It did make me wonder how many of the original actors they asked back and how many turned them down. Hayden Panetierre would be an obvious  choice to return, since she was so pivotal to the series and the final big change, but she's starring in Nashville and may not be interested in reviving that old role. And I doubt Zachary Quinto had much interest (or time), even though Sylar was the guy we loved to hate and still was developing when the series ended. They're probably the two who have risen the furthest since the show ended.

If some actors are more in demand than others it is because they are worth it. 

Obviously those casting them think so. It's a nice compliment to have casting directors calling you for work even while you're working on a series. I'm just surprised that the directors think that one person is worth the extra trouble, unless they happen to be at the lot or in Vancouver or wherever already. I don't think those Flash-Arrow crossovers require a lot of travel.

It may happen more than we know, and the actors turn it down as being too hard to handle. But whenever I read about someone doing it, they have the attitude of going for the gusto now, as they never know what tomorrow will bring. I doubt they worry about being too overexposed.

I have still have no explanation for James Frain, though.

-- MSA

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