The Avengers #16 is well-remembered as the issue where Captain America missed one too many meetings and discovered that the A-listers (Thor, Iron Man, Giant-Man and the Wasp) were leaving and he was left in charge of three former super-villains (Hawkeye, Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch). This action redefined who an Avenger could be i.e. someone who didn't have their own feature.
What if the same happened in Justice League of America? What if Green Arrow, their first recruit, attended a meeting only to learn that the Flash, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter and Aquaman were resigning from the team to focus on their lives and solo careers? I'm omitting Superman and Batman because they are 1) way too popular for a comparison and 2) they weren't that active in the pre-Atom days. Anyway, the dilemma is "Who is in the JLA now?"
I'm not including future member the Atom and Hawkman at least for now. Some ground rules
- there has to be a minimum of four "replacements"
- one has to be female
- at least two have to be "reformed" super-villains as a homage to Avengers #16
- the timeline can be played with to back up your choices
My line-up consists of:
- Captain Comet- a pre Silver Age hero with several powers and a distinctive look. He could have been summoned back to Earth by the Guardians.
- Lightning Man- the grown up Lightning Lad asked by Superman to help the JLA. Ironically a (literally) univerasally known figure in his time but a question mark to 20th century people.
- The Sandman- if the Newsboy Legion, Boy Commandos and Manhunter all existed on Earth-One, why not a E-1 Sandman? Older with better weapondry, combined with his deductive skills and minor premonitions, plus his gold and purple outfit, he would be an interesting addition.
- The Cheetah- if she was at Transformation Island and she was jealous of Wonder Woman and wanted to be admired, joining the JLA would help her get better. A few gimmicks and she would fit.
- Mister Element- a truly reformed Flash-foe, he would add some power and give the team a scientist.
Some other options were Batwoman, Brain Storm, Mister Freeze, Doctor Double X, Solovar and Doctor Polaris.
Comments? Your picks?
Replies
Your rules play to Marvel's strengths, which is why you end up with such an odd (and pretty boring) lineup. Naturally, it's more about execution than concept, as it usually is, because the Avengers lineup doesn't seem like a big winner, either. (Frankly, I'm not sure it was that popular in any event.) But it does play to Stan's wheelhouse of misunderstood villain and personality interactions.
Captain Comet seems to be a choice out of nowhere, except that he’s the best of a thin lot of options. The Avengers plucked people out of current comics, not someone long gone. Likewise, putting in Lightning Man with the rule of allowing the timeline to be played with also seems out of the blue (that’s the only way to get CapCom, too) and creating a new hero (Sandman) makes it obvious how tough this is. At that point, the options become pretty limitless among adult Legionnaires (not to mention having a team with two people from the future on it).
Mr. Element is a good choice that plays to that Marvel-like approach. You could also put on Ocean Master, figuring he reformed (and as Aquaman’s brother, he could) or Catwoman, who is probably the most likely villain to reform, since she’d done it before. Likewise, I think Batwoman is one of the few available female super-heroes without a feature to draw on, so she’s a good choice.
Speaking of the Newsboy Legion, why not the Guardian, who would show up shortly after the SA anyway? He could be pulled from the past to join up. Likewise could Johnny Thunder or another western hero, although he doesn't seem to add much. But the Avengers had the Rawhide Kid for awhile, and that was fun.
It will take some thought to come up with some Superman or Batman villains that would be plausible in those roles, as most of DC’s villains were villains, not misunderstood or shunned misfits who could be redeemed. They (and WW) had a variety of one-shot villains who might be plausible, but they wouldn't have much drawing power.
Cap was a way bigger star at the time than GA was, headlining his own book, so putting GA in charge starts them off with a disadvantage, I think.
If you took off the DC A-listers but allowed it to be the B- (or C-) listers at DC—and DC had way, way more titles running than Marvel did, so you have to go pretty deep into DC’s lineup to find someone not in a feature—then the options are more interesting.
If you could add in Metamorpho, Adam Strange, Plastic Man, Deadman and Batwoman, you might have a comparable list. Those are some of the better, less traditional personalities.
Later on in the SA and shortly after, the list could include Gold of the Metal Men, the Creeper, Black Orchid, Captain Action, and Brother Power (yikes) or even Super-Hip (double yikes).
Those might make some interesting groups, but I'm not sure who at DC would be writing the book. Team personality interaction was just not their forte.
-- MSA
My apologies, when I said that the timeline could be played with, I meant the character didn't have to be around exactly before 1962-63, not plucking people from different time periods. I chose Lightning Man because he made several 20th century appearances and I liked the idea of having a Legionnaire on the JLA. Adding to that, having a famous (in his era) hero join the team when things look bad and no one has any clue who he is or why he's great is just too fun to pass up.
Was Captain Comet from the future originally? I don't think so unless he made a time trip. I picked him because I like the character and readers from the Silver Age may remember him.
I bypassed Metamorpho and Adam Strange because of their ties to the Justice League.
The Sandman, or at least my version of him, is more versatile than the Guardian.
Funny that you mentioned Gold of the Metal Men because I was thinking about Platinum since she seems to a bit hardier and Doc Magnus was trying to get rid of her! Allegedly.
I thought Catwoman was too obvious and would she want to join a JLA without Batman?
Cat-Man was another possibility but anyone reading Secret Six knows that he's ******-up mentally and emotionally! Triple Yikes!
I guess I was Marvel-izing the JLA a bit but just imagine shaking up the team that much!!
Ehhhh, I think Julie Schwartz would've just throttled Irwin Donenfield or whoever tried to force him to drop the A-teamers off the list, and he would've kept all his recycled JSA characters like Flash, Green Lantern and the Atom. That just sounds like a goofy idea from start to finish. If Schwartz decided, though, to follow the ALL-STAR rules of pitching all the characters who headlined their own titles, he could've gone with some obvious choices like Adam Strange, Elongated Man, any of the Teen Titans assuming he came up with the idea before the Teen Titans was launched, Supergirl, or an Earth-One Wildcat.
Now for my real answer.
1. Pied Piper as the first reformed villain- I really liked him when he reformed and became an ally of Wally West. I think that he'd make a great counterpoint to Green Arrow as they have very different personalities, despite the fact that they wear the same color (kind of like Hal and Ollie during the classic Adams/O'Neil run on Green Lantern/Green Arrow). And I'm ready to see him step up in a starring role. One of my disappointments with Countdown was that his story was so uninteresting.
2 and 3. Mr. Miracle and Big Barda as a husband and wife team- I was scratching my head trying to think of a family combo like Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch. I thought of Jade and Obsidian but they were featured in quite a few stories already in JSA so I went the married route instead. Mr. Miracle brings a unique set of abilities. Big Barda brings the muscle. They add a lot of new elements to the team in terms of capabilities and relationships.
4. And finally, as the other reformed villain, Star Sapphire. I think there could be some fun interplay between Piper's magical based abilities and Sapphire's sci-fi roots. I think there could be even better interplay between Carol and Ollie. That would be some great romantic tension and a nice change of pace after seeing both Carol and Ollie fall back into the same relationships over and over again. I'd restore her classic look though. The current version is way too trampy.
I liked the idea of having a Legionnaire on the JLA.
Were you inspired by Starman's period in the recent JSA? I'm thinking that adds so many regular paradoxes to events that it isn't worth it for a guy already a member of a team. Even then, if we want to invoke the Avengers, I'd go with Colossal Man, to replicate Giant-Man, rather than one of the Original Three. They're pretty obvious (and busy). Mon-El would be the other strong choice.
Was Captain Comet from the future originally? I don't think so unless he made a time trip.
I threw that in without thinking it through, just picturing his adventures. He was from the 1950s, it was just his adventures that took place in outer-space, futuristic settings. In fact, he had a secret identity and everything, which is why some people think he was the first SA super-hero. He'd be a good choice--and I'd like to see his adventures reprinted.
I bypassed Metamorpho and Adam Strange because of their ties to the Justice League.
I would think that was a reason they would join up.They could be nixed because they had their own features, although both were gone by later in the SA. In 1965, DC didn't have a lot of quasi-villainous guys to turn into heroes or heroes without a feature. Marvel didn't have many free-floating heroes either, but they did like to reform villains.
Sandman, or at least my version of him, is more versatile than the Guardian.
He's also more fabricated. He's a lesser-known GA super-hero, but there were a bunch of those that could be beefed up and updated. I think it just shows how far we have to stretch to replicate the Marvel situation, which emphasizes how different the companies were in how they approached their characters.
Funny that you mentioned Gold of the Metal Men because I was thinking about Platinum since she seems to a bit hardier and Doc Magnus was trying to get rid of her! Allegedly.
I went with the one that seemed the most stable and likely to join (if not lead) a team, and who the other members would want in. Platinum would be the other choice to up the female ratio.
I thought Catwoman was too obvious and would she want to join a JLA without Batman?
Obviousness would seem to be a reason TO join, rather than not join. After all, I think Stan went with the most obvious quasi-villains (although the Blob was asked to join the X-Men and refused, so he could've had a change of heart). If she was reformed, she'd want to prove to Batman she was as good as him by joining his old group--and maybe he'd come back.
Cat-Man was another possibility but anyone reading Secret Six knows that he's ******-up mentally and emotionally! Triple Yikes!
Cat-Man might join if Batwoman was a member, although he doesn't add much more than she does. Going by how these characters are used today would REALLY limit the possibilities. Speaking of which, a really good choice would be Animal Man, and maybe a stint in the JLA would've kept him from freaking out later on (as with Cat-Man).
Then Dave said: That just sounds like a goofy idea from start to finish.
It is, but the assumption is that Schwartz was told to do it because, in a world where Marvel was popular faster and DC tried to figure out why, Irwin told Julie to make the JLA look like the Avengers. That it is so hard to do indicates just how different the companies were, which is why they to this day have their own supporters.
Stan and Julie had their strengths and weaknesses, and creating a Cap-led team of misfits is definitely a Stan game. Julie don't play dat. Even so, I am astonished to this day that Martin Goodman told Stan to create a team like the JLA, and he came up with the FF.
Elongated Man is a good choice, although Plastic Man is more readily available. He may be too wacky for the SA JLA, though. Supergirl is the other obvious choice, but she was often cover-featured, unlike GA. In that way, she might make the most direct comparison to Cap as the leader of the Marvel JLA.
Julie might've just transported some of his JSA team, as he did with the B&B issues later on. That's not the same spirit, but that's probably more likely than trying to reform some DC villains and make them popular.
-- MSA