Hawkeye Questions AKA I Was Wondering #24

[Philip Portelli]

Hawkeye is Marvel's most successful villain-turned-hero with long tours of duty in the Avengers and leading the West Coast branch. He has been spotlighted in every Avengers cartoon and was featured in the movies Thor and The Avengers. Now there are multiple action figures, merchandise and his own title. With his recognition at its peak, let's explore his Silver Age roots!

• How smart is Hawkeye? In his first appearance in Tales of Suspense #57 (S'64), he crafts his first trick arrows in his "basement workshop" and later the Black Widow gives him access to advanced technology supplied by the Soviets (darn Commies!) to battle Iron Man. But no one builds anything for him. He utilizes it on his own. Even with Tony Stark's resources, it always appeared like Hawkeye devised his arrows using his own ingenuity.
• I'm pretty sure that Hawkeye was never arrested but it seemed like he got his pardon very easily. I mean, we're talking treason and attempted murder. All he had to do to impress the Avengers was to do a trick shot and say he's sorry. They made Spider-Man go try to capture the Hulk!
• The Arrogant Archer's attitude with Captain America is legendary but would he have done the same if Thor and Iron Man had remained? Can't see them putting up with it especially the Thunder God!
• Why did he keep his face and identity a secret from the Avengers? It's not like he had a personal life! Then again, he went out on the town in full regalia and enjoyed the attention!
• Did he really fall in love with the Scarlet Witch? Was it merely an infatuation or a workplace crush? She never showed any interest in him.
• I was always amazed that Hawkeye never received a solo shot in Marvel Super-Heroes or the later Marvel Premiere and Marvel Spotlight. Nor did he guest star a lot, particularly without the other Avengers. But Marvel never did promote their secondary heroes that much, though Quicksilver was featured on several titles like X-Men and Amazing Spider-Man.
• When Hawkeye became GOLIATH II, it was because he felt that he was more effective as a giant than an archer but several of his greatest victories in that guise came from using his archery skills. Why not have him be a giant archer? Imagine the range he'd have!!
• The Swordsman knew Hawkeye when he was young. Presuming at least ten years have gone by when they met again so how old was the Swordsman? Forty? Older? Another reason for his insecurity, perhaps?
• Was Hawkeye constantly looking for respect? He felt inferior to the other Avengers and seemed taken lightly by other heroes and villains. It would explain his attitude and anger. He even considered himself to be one of the weakest of "Earth's Mightiest Heroes". Despite being an Avenger, did he feel like he didn't belong?
• Hawkeye Versus Green Arrow? I could see Hawkeye beating the Silver Age (Boring) Ace Archer but no way he beats the Bronze Age Ollie! Hawkeye is near the top of comics' archers but Green Arrow is the best! IMHO, of course!

The Avenging Archer is now one of the cornerstones of the Marvel Universe and he scratched and clawed his way there!

Comments?

[Randy Jackson]

Regarding Natasha, I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that she didn't care for him. He most assuredly was in love with her, and when they weren't fighting it seemed as if she had similar affection for him as well.

Presumably, for the reasons you brought up, Hawkeye is more intelligent than he lets on.  I'm guessing no diploma however.

Hawkeye received additional training in hand to hand combat from Captain America. Where did Ollie get his training?  I don't think it's a walkover for Green Arrow.

I'm guessing in terms of the treason charges that Iron Man intervened on his behalf, as it was obvious that he was only doing it for Natasha and there was utlimately no harm caused.

I don't know if he would have deferred to Iron Man, but I don't think Thor would have stood for it for two seconds.

He was a much better archer than a giant, and as a giant he didn't bring much more than being a really large target.  Sure, he was strong and could take a lot of punishment, but so could the others around him.

I always assumed the Swordsman was older.  But I don't think he was necessarily 40.  After all, probably similar to Clint, he was likely a high school dropout and could have gained a great deal of experience by age 30 or even 25  I think he was insecure because he knew Clint was better than him.

[Randy Jackson]

Also regarding Natasha, I'd say she may have a slight edge over Clint as Marvel's most successful villain turned hero.  She's had several solo titles and mini-series, she's co-headlined another title, been a core member of another team, and is right there with Clint in terms of mainstream visibility.  Add that to her frequent guest star appearances, and I'd say she matches up if not edges out Clint in that regard.

[Philip Portelli]

I never mentioned the Black Widow's affection for Hawkeye but she was using him at first, though she was attracted to him and saw him as her champion. After defecting from the Communists, she loved him and how he supported her but by the time she left The Avengers and began starring in Amazing Adventures, she had reaffirmed her independence and distanced herself from Hawkeye and ran smack into Daredevil!

[Luke Blanchard]

Hawkeye seems genuinely liked, though: does the Black Widow really have fans? Hawkeye did headline Solo Avengers and has also had minis, beginning with the 1983 one by Mark Gruenwald.

[Randy Jackson]

I dunno: seems to me that when Hawkeye showd up in alternative media, so does Natasha. Until recent times I'd say Natasha had an edge in terms of overall popularity. She was a perennial guest star, co-headlined Daredevil and Black Widow, etc. Hawkeye has seemingly never outgrown his association with the Avengers, except for perhaps his stint in the Thunderbolts. Also, I think Black Widow is liked as well--or at least Scarlet Johansen is.


Luke Blanchard said:

Hawkeye seems genuinely liked, though: does the Black Widow really have fans? Hawkeye did headline Solo Avengers and has also had minis, beginning with the 1983 one by Mark Gruenwald.

[Mr. Silver Age]

Right now I'd say Hawkeye is definitely more liked than Black Widow. They're about even in media attention, but his comic is winning Eisners. Nuff said.

OTOH, I've never been a big fan, as the real value of a guy who can shoot arrows against many of the Avengers foes always struck me as limited (as it did in the movie). Whereas Gene Colan's BW in DD in the early 70s is hard to forget. Especially that shower scene. You know the one I mean.

LUCY did very well at the box office, despite being based on a ludicrous misunderstanding of biology. That leads me to believe a BW movie could work. I'm not so sure about a Hawkeye one. But Jeremy Renner is a much better actor than he gets to show in the Avengers movies, so I'll bet it would be good, too. I'd never bet against a Marvel movie at this point.

I always thought trick-shot guys like Hawkeye and GA should be more about marksmanship, in the way Bullseye became. Cameron Hicks on the Alphas SyFy show had that power, including knowing ricochets, and that showed how powerful it could be.

-- MSA

[Philip Portelli]

Here's an interesting tidbit: Hawkeye became Goliath in Avengers #63 (Ap'69) and five months later, DC began their revamp of Green Arrow in Brave & Bold #85 (S'69). It seems that the Silver Age wanted more out of its archers!

[Mr. Silver Age]

I think they both realized the limitations, especially Hawkeye hanging around in the Avengers as the power level of the team (and villains) ratcheted up. 

GA was in sore need of an upgrade, especially being a weakly powered superhero when superheroes weren't respected. I think the creators took over that strip because they couldn't do any harm to either hero by then.

Frankly, I never quite got GA's new look. I don't know why he bothered with a mask considering his distinctive hair, and I understood the arm guard on his left arm, but the one on his right just seemed decorative (ie, useless). I guess the occasion might arise when he had to shoot left-handed.

-- MSA

[Philip Portelli]

I've mentioned this before but they updated Green Arrow extremely fast. In Justice League of America #74 (S'69), he was still boring Green Arrow. Brave & Bold #85 came out the same time that visually changed the Emerald Archer but in JLA #75 (N'69) is where he lost his fortune and began developing his distinctive social conscience which grew with each issue. The "New Look" GA appeared in Teen Titans #25 (F'70) but then took a more prominent role in Green Lantern #76 (Ap'70) or as we all know it as Green Lantern/Green Arrow AKA Social Relevance Is More Important Than Character Development!

[Richard Willis]

Randy Jackson said:

I'm guessing in terms of the treason charges that Iron Man intervened on his behalf, as it was obvious that he was only doing it for Natasha and there was utlimately no harm caused.

I don't think the government cares why you committed treason. A girlfriend and an accidental lack of serious consequences wouldn't make it look any better. Maybe Tony had to lie and tell them he was mind-controlled or something. For a guy who originally set out to be a hero he sure was easily manipulated.

I don't know if he would have deferred to Iron Man, but I don't think Thor would have stood for it for two seconds.

I don't think Hawkeye would have ever thought he should lead a team with Iron Man and Thor on board. As part of the Kooky Quartet he thought he was the most qualified. He originally thought Cap was obsolete and powerless. He soon found out otherwise.

[Richard Willis]

Mr. Silver Age said:

I always thought trick-shot guys like Hawkeye and GA should be more about marksmanship, in the way Bullseye became. Cameron Hicks on the Alphas SyFy show had that power, including knowing ricochets, and that showed how powerful it could be.

If I understand you correctly, they should show Hawkeye and Green Arrow performing feats of marksmanship with things other than arrows, like in the Alphas show. That would mix it up a bit and make the reader wonder what they were going to do next. It also would make them seem more up to the challenge when facing a world-beating foe. Only shooting arrows just makes them seem woefully under-powered like many of our beloved JSA heroes. Also, arrows are primarily fatality-inducing weapons. It stretches credulity that no one is even seriously hurt, like The Shadow firing his twin automatics and never even wounding anyone. When Green Arrow has been written to actually kill people it creates dissension among his readers/viewers.

[Mr. Silver Age]

they should show Hawkeye and Green Arrow performing feats of marksmanship with things other than arrows, like in the Alphas show.

Yes, that kind of ability makes the hero really dangerous. It's hard to bank arrows. The notion of shooting a boxing-glove arrow any distance with any force always makes me laugh, without even considering how he stored it.

Arrow has shown that using collapsible bows provides a little more flexibility, and it's possible to attach something to the shaft to be destructive and still aerodynamic. But a bow and arrow is still pretty limiting. They can carry only so many arrows, much less trick ones with different capabilities. And they're all really pointy, which makes it hard to suspend disbelief when they don't do much damage. Arrow's killed a bunch of people, although at least some of them were self-defense. That's a fine line to walk.

-- MSA