Irredeemable or Incorruptible?

[Randy Jackson]

I'm enjoying both of these titles from Boom! Studios, but I'm wondering if other people are enjoying them and if so, which one is your favorite?

For myself, <i>Incorruptible</i> is slightly better, mainly because I find the redemption of a bad guy more interesting than seeing a good guy go bad.  Also, things don't seem quite so dire all the time. 

[Jeff of Earth-J]

I've been reading and enjoying Irredeemable from the beginning (although I am considering the leap to trade). I meant to buy Incorruptible, but missed it somehow. Now that it's several issues in, I'll traidwait and see what happens. So i guess the answer for me is Irredeemable by default.

[Lumbering Jack (M'odd-R8-Tr)]

The joyless nature of Irredeemable left me cold. I got 4 issues in and really didn't care anymore. I've never even heard of Incorruptible.

[ClarkKent_DC]

Lumbering Jack said:

The joyless nature of Irredeemable left me cold. I got 4 issues in and really didn't care anymore. I've never even heard of Incorruptible.

Incorruptible is, sort of, the flip side of Irredeemable.

In short, Irredeemable tells the story of the Plutonian (think: "Superman") gone rogue; he's cracked under the strain of doing all that do-gooding and has gone about destroying lives and property willy-nilly, as his former friends and allies (think: "the Justice League") try and fail miserably to stop him and/or avoid getting killed by him.

Incorruptible is the story of Max Damage, a supervillain who is powerfully strong and, up to now, pretty indifferent to the consequences of the crimes he commits. Then one day, he encounters the Plutonian in a full-on rampage and has an epiphany: The world needs the hero that the Plutonian used to be. So, if nobody else will do it, or can do it, he'll do it.

He's started off by torching his ill-gotten gains (it's all blood money to him), destroying his secret lairs, and quit sleeping with his jailbait sidekick. And he's formed an alliance with a detective.

I"m beginning to like Incorruptible more because Irredeemable went too far in the early going showing how crazy, destructive and petty the Plutonian can be. It's gotten better as it unravels, bit by bit, the mystery of why he went nuts. Incorruptible is interesting in that we have a villain who has decided to be scrupulously honest, but there's no reason for anybody to believe that of him, and it's a little goofy, but intriguing, to see him feel his way through that.

[Cavaliere (moderator emeritus)]

I didn't make it past issue one of Irredeemable. Yuck. As a consequence, I didn't even try Incorruptible.

[Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod)]

I haven't read Incorruptible yet; I'm waiting for the trade (or possibly, the Longbox edition).But I like Irredeemable an awful lot (though I've only read the first trade of that, too...)

I'm really looking forward to Incorruptible, though, because the redemption storyline sounds like something I'd really enjoy.

[Travis Herrick (Modular Mod)]

Rob Staeger said:

I haven't read Incorruptible yet; I'm waiting for the trade (or possibly, the Longbox edition).But I like Irredeemable an awful lot (though I've only read the first trade of that, too...)

I'm really looking forward to Incorruptible, though, because the redemption storyline sounds like something I'd really enjoy.

Uh, ditto

[Cavaliere (moderator emeritus)]

I decided that since I could read it for free--thank you, library--that I'd give this another chance. I still hate the first issue. It is, to me, irredeemable in more than just the title. The other issues in the first collection aren't anywhere near that bad. They even have some very good moments.

I still have trouble believing that the world's greatest hero would go evil gradually without plenty of people noticing. If something happened that just snapped Superman's Plutonian's mind, I would find that more believable. But Waid's introduction is very specific that this isn't what happened.

Since Irredeemable #1 came out, the game "City of Heroes" introduced missions where characters can make choices and those choices affect whether they are considered hero, villain, vigilante, or rogue. A hero can make the hard, Punisher-like decisions that lead to him being labeled a vigilante. Once a vigilante, mission choices can lead back to heroic status, continue as a vigilante, or even continue to the dark side until they're considered a villain. A villain can choose missions where they remain firmly on the side of evil or exhibit a kinder attitude that brings them eventually to be considered a rogue--not bad enough to be a villain. From being a rogue, they can return to villainy, remain a rogue, or strive to become a hero.

The point of all that is that it is a gradual process. You don't go from being hero to villain overnight but you also don't do it in secret. The people around you--players or in-game characters--know that you're changing. Your actions define how you're perceived.

If Superman the Plutonian is going evil, I don't care how secretive he is about his life, people are going to notice. I just don't buy that he goes from being applauded as the world's greatest hero one day and destroys an entire city the next. There has to have been some big event, not just the relatively minor betrayals I've seen so far, to drive him that mad.

I will check out the second tpb. I'm curious enough to continue but only because reading it is free.

For the record, I love Incorruptible.

[Captain Comics]

I regret that when I cut back on comics back in January, two titles that got the axe were Incorruptible and Irredeemable. I always had it in mind that I would pare back farther than necessary, decide what I really wanted to read, and then play catch-up* on anything that I just had to have. That way I'd know what I was really enjoying -- because I'd miss it -- rather than buying out of habit or a sense of professional responsibility. And it's better to err on the side of saving money than err on the side of buying something I won't want in five years and can't even get cover price for.

Incorruptible and Irredeemable are two books that have remained on the cusp for me. Somewhere in the back of my head I expect I will buy/read them someday, but I feel no urgency and nothing on this thread has created any. I regret that, because I generally like Mark Waid's work and I want Boom! to succeed. But those are intellectual reasons to buy the books, not visceral, pleasure-seeking reasons. When the books become a must-read for me, I'll read them.

So y'all feel free to convince me!

* One of the things the Internet has vastly changed -- among all the others -- is the buying of comic books. For my first 20 years as a collector, the idea of "playing catch-up" on a title would have been impossible. You'd have to haunt flea markets and find them one by one (and out of order), while paying grossly inflated prices. Even after the advent of comic shops, you'd still go through the same process, except you'd first buy whatever the LCS had, and then haunt conventions for whatever you were missing.

But the Internet not only allows you to search nationwide for a given title, it also creates downward pressure on prices. If your LCS is selling Captain Phlegm #1 for $80, but several sites online are selling it for $45-50, then you'll see that price at your LCS tumble pretty soon. And, to my amazement, I'm now filling in entire 1980s-90s runs at 90 cents a copy -- cheaper (allowing for inflation) than if I'd bought them new 20 years ago. (My LCS says 1980s-90s titles are on the wrong end of the supply-demand curve.)

So today's collecting is the absolute opposite of my youth. Which is quite an adjustment! Before the Internet, I'd always err on the side of buying something I was unsure about, because it went without saying that if I decided I wanted it later, I'd pay three times as much and have a hard time just finding it at any price. Now, the reverse is true -- when uncertain, I DON'T buy it, and decide later if I really "need" it. If I do, not only will I be able to find it easily, it may even be marked down below cover price, or available cheap in a trade.

I'm still making my brain adjust to this brave, new world. And I'm succeeding to some degree. I still have to fight the urge to buy now, and decide if I want it later. Unfortunately for this thread, Irredeemable and Incorruptible are two titles I figure on buying more cheaply down the road IF I decide I "need" them. Twenty years ago I'd have snatched them up and decided later if I really liked them.

[Eric L. Sofer]

I guess I'm the exception, but I like Irredeemable and Incorruptible. I like Irredeemable a little better because I like the art better.

There's never been any argument that Mark Waid doesn't know how to write a super hero book, and this concept is one that I've never seen anyone follow before. The characters are intriguing, albeit human and with feet of clay (sigh...) but with a title like Irredeemable, I didn't figure that we'd be seeing the true heroic model.

The only thing about them is that they're written by Mark Waid - so he'll be off them any time now. That's when I will decide to drop them or not. But the first two trades convinced me to buy this book monthly - I want to see where the story goes and how it can possibly be resolved.

Obviously not everyone's cup of borscht, but I'm really enjoying these two titles. I don't know where they story's going - so that's part of the interest. And another part... and this is only because it's Waid... but how DO you stop Supe Plutonian?

ELS

[Rich Lane]

I read both books, but I think I like Incorruptible better. Irredeemable is a great idea, but it seems far better suited for a finite series than an ongoing, even an ongoing with a planned endgame somewhere down the line. It is unrelentingly dark, and it's continued success depends upon the failure of the heroes of that universe to continue to fail to stop the Plutonian as he commits atrocity after atrocity. It's not a roller coaster ride; it's a never ending plunge.

Incorruptable, on the other had offers hope, angst, and conflict in equal measure. I'm a sucker for a good redeemed villain story. It's why I stuck with Xena until the end even though it got hopelessly silly. I see some similarities between Max in this book to the corrupt cop in Denny O'Neil's initial run of the DC version of The Question. His name escapes me, but sometime towards the beginning of that book, this cop, who was at one point the absolutely vilest officer on the Hub City police force, saw the devastation brought on by the breakdown of order and decided to change his life. He then became the most honest cop on the force. I loved that idea, as I was very into Zen philosophy at that point in my life, and this was a very zen experience. There are enough similarities between Max and that cop that wonder if Waid wasn't patterning Max after him.

[ClarkKent_DC]

I read both books, but I find myself looking forward to Incorruptible more that I do Irredeemable.

Irredeemable has taken a step or two to address the question Cavalier raises. In the last two issues, one of the members of the team -- the Batman/Green Arrow non-powered hero analogue, the first hero Plutonian killed, back in issue one -- does tell us, via flashback, that he's always been afraid of what would happen if "Tony" snapped, and made a deal with the devil, so to speak, to handle it if that terrible day came to pass. In the latest issue we see what the arrangement was.

I think both titles have kind of meandered for a while, and Incorruptible has gotten a little boring because of that. You would kind of think there would be a battle between Plutonian and Max Damage, but Max has gotten bogged down in dealing with a white supremacist group, and I wish that bit of business was overwith.

[Philip Portelli]

I get both books, too. Irredeemable works best when you picture the Plutonian as Superman, or at least a decent Superman ripoff, as which there are many. The hero becomes the villain, the guardian the invader, the shepard the wolf. There is a sense of doom approaching here. If there is going to be a connection with Incorruptible, I hope it is soon.

This is Luthor's fantasy come true, but if it did happen in the DCU, he would soon learn the difference between tolerance and practicality. But he wouldn't learn it for long!