Is it plagiarism?

[Eric L. Sofer]

I want to complain about something I've seen recently - most notably in DC Comics (as my Marvel collecting is getting smaller and smaller, but that's another rant.) It really hit the fan for me in Legion of Three Worlds #5.

It appears that DC is snipping art from previous books and stories, and using it in current ones. Okay, I have no problem with this - it can add another dimension, a sense of history, and quite honestly, a nice touch of fun to the stories.

My bitch is that the artists of these pieces NEVER GET CREDITED. Sure, I am assuming that there's no reason to pay them a royalty for a snippet, especially books that DC already has the rights to.

But really, don't a lot of these guys deserve credit? Off the top of my head, from Lo3W #5, they sampled Curt Swan, Al Plastino, Keith Giffen, Greg LaRocque, Jeff Moy, and others I know I'm forgetting.

And again, that's only one page out of one book. I'll swear I remember at least a half dozen such occurrences (they don't come to mind right now - you know that Silver Age memory!)

Maybe a footnote at the bottom of the page is not necessarily in order, but wouldn't it be nice to remember these gents SOMEWHERE? Fair use or not, I'm not talking about legal - I'm talking about what's right.

I remain,
Sincerely,
Eric L. Sofer
The Silver Age Fogey
x<]:o){

[Jeff of Earth-J]

No it's not plagiarism. At worst it's "swiping" and at best it's intended as a tribute, as I think it was inthis case. If an artist swipes another artist work for a cover I think that should be acknowledged in the signature, but it gets in the way in individual panels within the story itself. (Perhaps a note on the editorial page would be a good compromise.) Otherwise my advice is to just count yourself among those who "get" the inside reference, allowing you to experince the story on an additional level.

[PowerBook Pete, the Mad Mod]

What Eric is talking about is not just swiping, but cut-and-paste, and I agree that the original artist should be acknowledged or there should be a note stating the original appearance of said artwork.

[Jeff of Earth-J]

My mistake. I'll have to give LoTW #5 another look.

[Alan M.]

Well, it's certainly not plagiarism; DC owns the previous work, and they own the current work, so they can reuse it as they see fit. (And if it's just a panel or two, it probably falls under "fair use" anyhow, so even if it WEREN'T their own product it wouldn't be plagiarism.)

Are they required to provide citations? Probably not; as stated above, it's their property, and they can do with it what they want. Should they provide citations? It'd be nice...ideally in an editorial page, maybe, so it doesn't bury the artwork under lots of credits.

[ClarkKent_DC]

No, it is not plagiarism, and it's rather inflammatory to use that loaded term, don't you think?

[Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod)]

Looks like Barry Kitsen, Lee Moder, Steve Lightle and Lee Moder's wor was also used.

And as everyone else has been saying, whatever this techniques merits or drawbacks, it's not plagiarism. And even providing credits would be difficult and unweildy, since to do it properly, you'd have to not only name the artist but properly indicate which illustration of the hundreds of panels in the book was theirs. I think it's something better left to the Internet, and fans like us.

If a whole page is used, or a sequence of panels, that's another story; I'd want to find a way to credit that. And, naturally, if permission from another copyrightholder had to be obtained.

[Doc Beechler (mod-MD)]

Mark S. Ogilvie said:

I think they should at least credit it.

Mark

Then the names Jack Kirby and Neal Adams would have to be on most superhero comics produced.

[Eric L. Sofer]

Hello, everybody! Who knew anybody'd read this darned thing? :)

Okay, in no particular order...

ITEM: I didn't say it was plagiarism. I asked. I was hoping to engender some discussion on what other people think... wow, I guess I got that!

ITEM: I don't have any problem with art that another artist has duplicated, because so very often, those artists who do this usually put "JB after Greg LaRocque" (the first one that comes to my mind) or some credit to the original artist. Artists, it seems, like to recognize and respect their sources...

ITEM: Lo3W was a rather extreme example - it had over a dozen cut-and-pastes (thanks for reminding me that I should have used that phrase, PBP!) Others I've seen had one piece placed in. I don't think that changes the situation, I just think this book is an extreme example. But since it's a new book, I figured that it's still fresh in a lot of minds.

ITEM: I don't state that there is any abuse of intellectual property, or violation of rights of ownership, or anything else illegal. I'm not talking about what's legal... I'm talking about what's right. (Does this mean Superman wouldn't want the credits and Batman would...? :) )

ITEM: Rob, thanks for supplying some of those other artists; as I noted, I didn't have the book in front of me, so that was most helpful.

ITEM: I am not requesting that the footnotes appear at the bottom of the page; paradoxically, they would be interfering with the scene because those cut-and-pastes were not critical to the action in that scene. I think they were there to show all the many "different" legions (corollary: Interesting to see L.E.G.I.O.N. #1 shown without any of them in the book. ANOTHER Dox? That would have been really something!). But I know of a lot of series when a writer leaves, and at the bottom of the last page of the story is a "Thanks to Jack, Stan, Joe, Roy, Gene, and all the other armadillos who came before me!" or some such. The specific issues and pages don't need to be cited, in my mind - although that could be kinda fun - but just an acknowledgment of who did the art that was used in that book. I doubt in the extreme that royalties are involved, but if I could tell who drew them, certainly the artists themselves (or their estates) could!

Again, I don't think it's about the law. I think it's about what's right. Okay, game on!

I remain,
Sincerely,
Eric L. Sofer
The Silver Age Fogey
x<]:o){

[Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod)]

Actually, a couple members of L.E.G.I.O.N., Stealth and Strata, appeared in the big spread later in the issue. (I had the exact thought you did when I examined that spread -- what the hell is L.E.G.I.O.N. doing here? -- and then flipped to the spread, thinking if they'd be represented anywhere, it'd be there.)

Y'know what would be neat? If in the (inevitable, but somewhat distant) electronic version of this book, all those scenes were hyperlinks to the electronic versions of those original stories.

[PowerBook Pete, the Mad Mod]

Oooh, that would be great!

[Batmatt Beyond]

Aside from the question of credits, I prefer the idea of cutting and pasting an image rather than having the artist redraw it. My spider-sense tingled when the most recent Amazing Spider-Man Annual used a Dan Jurgens image from several years back.

[Wandering Sensei: Moderator Man]

Batmatt Beyond said:

Aside from the question of credits, I prefer the idea of cutting and pasting an image rather than having the artist redraw it. My spider-sense tingled when the most recent Amazing Spider-Man Annual used a Dan Jurgens image from several years back.

Thank you!! I agree completely.