I saw " Man Of Steel " at a midnight show last night/this ayem .

  Briefly , I have sort of a liking for super-hero stuff that follows a litle bit more a " real ' science fiction approach - While , admittedly , basically still sticking to the structure of fights and conflict in the story .

  MOS rather fulfilled that .

  It explored how the Superman concept might've been set up , the whole Krypotn thing , and how it might work out down on Earth , pretty well .

  Well , i thought so .

Views: 3227

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

I can answer this. I've got the Donner cut as part of a big Superman movie set, but they also released it separately. It restores all the footage Donner shot for the movie that got re-shot when he was taken off the movie, including all of Marlon Brando's performance. Here's the Wikipedia entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_II:_The_Richard_Donner_Cut

I was able to get the "Donner Cut" through Netflix. It is a single disc with the movie along with Special Features that includes deleted scenes, an interview with Donner and a documentary piece about the process of restoring the "lost footage".

Superman (the iconic character) is more important to me than Man of Steel (the movie). When I informally polled people who hadn’t seen the film, I was more interested in their thoughts about the icon than the movie. Whether they had seen the movie or not was immaterial to me. Surely there are comic books fans who have refused to see the movie based on the knowledge that Superman kills Zod. I wouldn’t credit their opinion of the movie, but I would respect their view of the character. It’s good that we’re having the debate, but my point is, the general movie-going public is more interested in the “royal” baby or Honey Boo-Boo’s flatulence than whether or not Superman snapped Zod’s neck.

I heard Zack Snyder interviewed on the radio defending his choice of dropping the red “briefs” and, on the basis of that interview (and after having seen the film), I agree with him. Having said that, though, I LOVE that Tide ad!

My Superman movie would begin with Clark Kent’s first day of work at the Daily Planet and I would tell it from the point of view of the Planet staff. I wouldn’t even “reveal” to the audience that Clark Kent and Superman are one and the same until near the end. How many people do you think would be “fooled”?

My Superman movie would begin with Clark Kent’s first day of work 

That's the other thing I find unimaginative about how they handled it. Why start on Krypton and drag us through all that stuff we know so well before getting to something good? Why not start with him saving the guys on the oil derrick and have one of them say, "Who IS that guy?" and flash back or something? There were a lot of other way-more-confusing flashbacks going on later to wait so long to introduce the hero and his super-powers.

I think a "Marvels" approach to a super-hero movie might be pretty cool by now, given how many have been done. Now that people know the basic mythology, seeing it going on in the background of another story would be fun.

How many people do you think would be “fooled”?

I don't know that anyone would be fooled going to a Superman movie and seeing that, but with another less well known hero it might work. OTOH, a lot of people seemed to be shocked when the boat sank in Titanic, so I may overestimate people. It's easy to do.

-- MSA

Those of us who post here know the origin story forwards, backwards and inside out - I wonder how many of todays movie goers have no clue about Superman's beginnings even though they may know who the character is. It has been 35 years since Superman The Movie so there may be a whole lot of people under the age of forty who have never seen or read the origin story.

Different fictional universe but I think this is a good illustration of my point - one of my co-workers, approximately 30 years of age, had never seen any of the original Star Wars films until this summer. He was vaguely aware of who the characters are but had no clue regarding the storyline.

I’m trying to think if there are any superhero movies that really capture “my version” of a particular character and the answer is no.  Not even close really.  I usually try to judge the movies by putting myself in a non-reader’s shoes.  After all, when I watched “Jack Reacher” I had never read any of those books so I formed a judgment based solely on the movie.

 

I enjoy Christopher Nolan’s Dark Knight movies despite the fact that they have nothing to do with “my Batman.”  But viewed as a sort of “Elseworlds” interpretation I find them pretty entertaining.

 

Most of my favorite comic book movies are based on comics I haven’t read.  "Road to Perdition," "Red," and "A History of Violence" come to mind.  There is so much personal baggage attached to my relationship with superheroes  going back almost 40 years that I doubt I will ever feel like a superhero movie got it completely right.  

He was vaguely aware of who the characters are but had no clue regarding the storyline.

OK, so what if we went back and asked our 10 people if they know where Superman was born and who his father is, and they say no? Can we just have a spaceship land in a Kansas farm and zap his powers onto him? Is that the audience we're making our movie for?

If our 10 people don't recognize the name "Lois Lane," does she have to be in a Superman movie?

I'm just not sure what our anecdotal evidence is showing, except that we have some friends who have strenuously avoided popular culture. I'm skeptical that 30-year-olds don't know the name Luke Skywalker. Is that guy a prime target for the next movie? 

Superman has been a big part of the culture, especially through animation and TV, where he's been running steadily for 10-15 years, not counting reruns. Why would I make a movie aimed at the people who have no idea who he is? I'm sure they exist, but are they really my target, at the expense of those who are already primed to pay to see him?

I haven't seen Titanic or Avatar, which says more about me than the movies. Asking my opinion on what would make a good sequel would be insane. But I don't think I'm typical of my age group.

-- MSA

Well, I did say “take it for what it’s worth” when I posted the results of my poll. :)

I totally believe there are 30 year olds who don’t know the name Luke Skywalker. I often question lists of the “10 most recognizable fictional characters know worldwide” when there are people I know in this country who are unfamiliar with some of the characters.

Back in the ‘90s, I went to a Bookmark bookstore in search of the latest James Bond novel by John Gardner. I didn’t see it on the shelf so I asked for it by title, explaining to the clerk (a middle aged woman) that it was the latest James Bond novel. She couldn’t find it either, until I realized she was doing a search for author James Bond. I (briefly) explained that James Bond is a fictional spy featured in books since the 1950s and movies since the 1960s. The next year I went to the same bookstore and went through the same routine with the same clerk!

When I was in college I gave my non-comic book-reading friends a “secret identity quiz” (for which I would name the hero and they were to supply the secret identity). Every single one of them could identify Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne and Peter Parker without having read a single comic book in their lives. Take it for what it’s worth.

I often question lists of the “10 most recognizable fictional characters know worldwide” when there are people I know in this country who are unfamiliar with some of the characters.

I don't question the fact that there are countries where U.S. pop culture is devoured by many people while some here don't know it. Lots of movies (I think John Carter was one) do badly here but do huge business overseas, making them more profitable than we realize.

I also direct you to the Unauthorized Uses of Comic Images in the Mr. Silver Age section, especially the Japanese backpack with a rainbow-colored Sonic and the words "Harry Potter" and "Obama" emblazoned on it. No doubt, there are people in this country who don't know who Harry Potter is (or Obama).

As I noted, some people strenuously avoid pop culture. Some people are proud to say they don't own a TV, watch cable, whatever, as if that makes them superior somehow. Plenty of comic-book fans mock sports, and my Facebook page always has people deriding the notion that anyone watches the Super Bowl, and yet many people do. The notion of not being aware of these things at all shows an isolation that isn't that commendable.

I only wish I didn't know the term "Honey Boo Boo."

She couldn’t find it either, until I realized she was doing a search for author James Bond.

Telling her the name of the series probably was confusing, since it wouldn't be shelved or indexed that way. But a bookstore clerk even in the 1990s *should* know the name James Bond. Sigh. I guess I have too high of expectations of retail people, as usual.

Every single one of them could identify Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne and Peter Parker without having read a single comic book in their lives. Take it for what it’s worth.

Now *that*, I think is worth a lot. As I noted, Superman has been broadcast on TV, cartoons, DVDs and many ways for decades to the kids who eat up this stuff fast. I don't think the comic books make any difference these days (do they still make those?). Superman, Batman and Spider-Man long ago surpassed that standard. 

OTOH, even with all the movies, I wonder how well the names Tony Stark or Reed Richards register? I'll bet not that well, unless they think Tony got beheaded in Winterfell. 

-- MSA

I just saw this on Facebook (I'm clearly getting a lot of work done this morning), and I thought it might explain some of what we're talking about.

Perhaps these people we're using as our common denominator are victims of a Jedi mind trick? Especially the ones who don't recognize the name "Luke Skywalker."

-- MSA

I don't want to get into a silly back and forth on this but in my previous post I said my co-worker " was vaguely aware of who the characters are but had no clue regarding the storyline "  My point was to provide a possible answer as to why the team behind Man of Steel felt it necessary to go back to Krypton and tell the origin story once again - there are movie goers out there who can identify well known fictional characters like Superman and Luke Skywalker but know little to nothing about them or their backstory.

Mr. Silver Age said:

He was vaguely aware of who the characters are but had no clue regarding the storyline.

OK, so what if we went back and asked our 10 people if they know where Superman was born and who his father is, and they say no? Can we just have a spaceship land in a Kansas farm and zap his powers onto him? Is that the audience we're making our movie for?

If our 10 people don't recognize the name "Lois Lane," does she have to be in a Superman movie?

I'm just not sure what our anecdotal evidence is showing, except that we have some friends who have strenuously avoided popular culture. I'm skeptical that 30-year-olds don't know the name Luke Skywalker. Is that guy a prime target for the next movie? 

Superman has been a big part of the culture, especially through animation and TV, where he's been running steadily for 10-15 years, not counting reruns. Why would I make a movie aimed at the people who have no idea who he is? I'm sure they exist, but are they really my target, at the expense of those who are already primed to pay to see him?

I haven't seen Titanic or Avatar, which says more about me than the movies. Asking my opinion on what would make a good sequel would be insane. But I don't think I'm typical of my age group.

-- MSA

 

I think you're asking the wrong questions. Why make a _______ (fill in the blank) movie aimed at the people who have no idea who _______ (fill in the blank) is? Because you're making movies, for moviegoers, and there are almost always more of them than there are people who know who _______ (fill in the blank) is from comics or novels. 

Reply to Discussion

RSS

Groups

Latest Activity

Mark Sullivan (Vertiginous Mod) replied to Jeff of Earth-J's discussion Sandman (TV)
"I've seen seven of the episodes (I think). Very impressed with the visuals and the…"
52 seconds ago
Peter Wrexham replied to Steve W's discussion A Cover a Day
"What about a carnival of carnage?"
1 hour ago
Dave Palmer replied to Steve W's discussion A Cover a Day
"Does a carnival of fools count?"
1 hour ago
Dave Palmer replied to Steve W's discussion A Cover a Day
1 hour ago
JD DeLuzio replied to Steve W's discussion A Cover a Day
9 hours ago
Richard Willis replied to Captain Comics's discussion This Week in Comics: Aug. 8-14, 2022
"No, seriously, I have this recurring dream where I have actually killed someone and buried the…"
9 hours ago
Richard Willis replied to The Baron's discussion Movies I Have Seen Lately
"Scarlet Street impressed me so much that I made a point of buying the Blu-ray."
10 hours ago
Richard Willis replied to Randy Jackson's discussion Did Paste Pot Pete/the Trapster ever admire Spider-Man's Webs?
"Before he was a member of the Frightful Four, he fought Johnny Storm a few times. Did they ever do…"
11 hours ago
Richard Willis replied to The Baron's discussion RIP Clu Gulager
"My parents and I watched him in The Tall Man (1960-62, two seasons, 75(!) episodes). He played…"
11 hours ago
Richard Willis replied to Jeff of Earth-J's discussion Sandman (TV)
"My expectations for a Sandman TV show are high, but my expectations that they'd be able to…"
12 hours ago
Jeff of Earth-J replied to Jeff of Earth-J's discussion Ultraman Tiga
"THE LAND SHARK: "Daigo notices the GUTS Wing 1's spark lens reacting strangely. A…"
13 hours ago
Jeff of Earth-J posted discussions
13 hours ago

© 2022   Captain Comics, board content ©2013 Andrew Smith   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service