I stand corrected that "Rebirth" was in #11, not #12 as I mistyped. The edit window closed before I could correct it, and the GCD is off-line right now, so I couldn't double check to post a link to a cover image. And I understand now that you were referring to a comparison between Orion/New Gods and Capt. Marvel now.
I've read your opinion of the mish-mash that Captain Mar-vell became before, and I agree about the changes of direction every few issues.
However, I think you have mis-attributed the authorship here. There's a very informative introduction written by Roy Thomas as the preface to the Marvel Masterworks volume that explains how he came to head the project, how Gil Kane came available, and how they had very similar ideas on everything from costume design to color scheme. But also how the project got detrailed AGAIN, after just a few issues, and missed schedule, etc.
It would be well worth your reading up on it, if you can find a copy. I'm not sure that I can scan it, but I'll try and maybe email or post it for you all.
It was my friend in Wales who made that comparison of the change from sci-fi character to generic super-hero. I hadn't thought of it before, because the late-70's NEW GODS stuff, I'm not sure I ever read any of it more than once, more than 30 years ago.
"However, I think you have mis-attributed the authorship here."
Well, I'm not sure the details of the "NEW!!!" CM matter to me that much, I liked it so little. The funny thing is, I don't think anyone besides me has ever suggested that CM #11-12 were written by Gary Friedrich, since the credits say Arnold Drake. Arnold has been catching hell for that since it came out, but after reading the run 3 times, I just don't believe he actually wrote those 2 issues. The first 4 pages of #11, YES. There was a peculiar "tic" in Arnold's dialogue that was in the first 4 pages, but not after, after page 5 was exactly where the plot ABRUPTLY veered off in a different direction, and, the place where the art went completely to hell at the same time. Arnold actually told me his records indicated he was paid for at least one of those issues (#12, I think). However, this does not rule out that he wrote scripts for both issue, which then went unused. (Steve Englehart once wrote a VAMPIRELLA story, "Into The Inferno", but what got published, even though it had the same story title, had nothing to do with what he wrote.) Further, Arnold had written 2 episodes of DEADMAN, but initially was only paid for the 1st one. A lot of weird things like that happen.
As an aside, Arnold apparently had a falling-out with Stan Lee. On several occasions, he talked about how Stan never let up hassling him about how he felt Arnold was a "Communist" for trying to get medical benfits for DC freelancers. Decades later, Arnold had an open hatred for Stan, to the point where he actually used to write folk songs about him which he performed at conventions. I can't think of anyone else who worked for Marvel that short a time who had that much hatred for Stan apart from Wally Wood..
Anyway, it's a shame when you see a series that had a lot of potential, but never managed to achieve it.
The one thing I did read about the Thomas-Kane run was, Roy says he did the story for #17 all by himself; he & Kane collaborated on the plot for #18 about 50-50 (which is funny, considering John Buscema drew the 2nd half of it-- what the hell happened there?); Kane did the story for #18 entirely on his own. #18 happens to be the really sick, violent, pointless one. Someone at another board lambasted me for saying Kane did a lot of sick, violent comics, since, after all, "He was the artist!!!" But something must have been going on, considering Kane was there for Capt. Stacy's uncalled-for death, Gwen Stacy's murder, Norman Osborn's accidental suicide, Maxwell Glenn's suicide and Matt Murdock's nervous breakdown.
I don't know if sales on CM were already plunging too far to save the book before Kane arrives (MAYBE!) but nothing in what Thomas & Kane did, in my view, would have inspired new readers. My first exposure to their run was when the last 2 issues, the Hulk story, was reprinted in an Annual.
I do wish Archie Goodwin & Don Heck had been given a chance to save the book. I mean, when else has a new creative team actually been kicked off a book BEFORE their first issue even got to the printers? It's funny, but the Heck-Shores art, plus Archie's story, reminded me a lot of when Steve Englehart & Al Milgrom were doing the book.
CM was perhaps the only comics series where an editor actually apologized to readers for what he now admitted was a misguided series direction. The thing is, that editorial was so vaguely written, I've never been sure if Stan was apologizing for Gary Friedrich's 5 issues, or EVERYTHING from the very beginning!
Forgive me if I've been unclear. I didn't mean that you had the writer of the individual Captain Marvel issues incorrect.
What I was trying to suggest was that it was Roy Thomas's move to hop onto Captain Marvel, not Stan's idea. I'm thinking that Roy was becoming more and more significant writer as Stan backed off, and eventually (not sure on the dates here) becomes Editor in Chief after Stan departs, or steps back/down, whatever.
Back to the New Gods, I wrote a bit about their Post-Kirby days here. Writers, particularly Conway, wanted to expand on what the King did and prove that they could make a profit off the characters if not the themes. Altering Orion's costume was clearly a way of "editing" Kirby to give the series a more contemporary look. The likeness to Captain Mar-Vell does seem fairly obvious now.
As for 1st Issue Special, it made little sense that Scott and Barda would want to live on New Genesis. IIRC, Scott doesn't even wear his Mister Miracle outfit there. Perhaps Conway wanted to merge the strips but decided to revive both New Gods and Mister Miracle. But he carries the team concept by including Metron, Lonar, Forager and a new character, Jezebelle.
This may be sacriliege but The Return of the New Gods was my introduction to them and I feel that the series, taken on its own merits and seperate from Kirby, was not that bad. Books like Mister Miracle's Brave & Bold team-ups with Batman and Super Team Family #15 with the Flash and Secret Society of Super-Villains #1-5 are fondly recalled. For better or worse, the Fourth World became an integral part of the DCU that allowed Darkseid to be its ultimate evil.
"What I was trying to suggest was that it was Roy Thomas's move to hop onto Captain Marvel, not Stan's idea."
Gotcha. I wish he HADN'T. : )
I suppose the question is, whose idea was it to BOOT Arnold off in favor of Gary "Burnout" Friedrich? (Well, that seems pretty obviously Stan, since he & Arnold never really got along.) Perhaps Stan WAS apologizing for Gary's short run after all, since it really derailed the momentum Arnold had been slowly, steadily building. Also, how did Archie Goodwin wind up replacing Gary? It comes across as a fill-in, yet they were promoted as the "new regular team". Sure seems like those in charge behind-the-scenes couldn't make up their minds.
I'd guess replacing Gary with Archie was Stan's call, but then Roy talked Stan into letting HIM do it instead.
"The likeness to Captain Mar-Vell does seem fairly obvious now."
Yeah, it's funny how my friend from Wales keeps doing thing slike that-- pointing out the obvious that I never noticed before.
"As for 1st Issue Special, it made little sense that Scott and Barda would want to live on New Genesis. IIRC"
That was something that bugged me when I re-read MISTER MIRACLE #18. Scott, Barda, Oberon and the Female Furies had been steadily building a life for themselves, and Scott & Barda were slowly growing closer until the marriage seemed the most natural next step in the world. But the two of them leaving Earth in the last pages of MM #18 came totally ouit of lieft field, and I feel sure only happened because the book got canned, possibly after Kirby had already finished doing it, and wound up going back and doing new pages for the 2nd half of the book (which does not read "right" by Kirby standards).
To me, the most important missing piece is the relationship between Scott & Izaya. That would be dealt with later by Englehart & Gerber.
"Perhaps Conway wanted to merge the strips but decided to revive both New Gods and Mister Miracle."
1ST ISSUE SPECIAL #13 has too many characters crammed into it. the odd thing was the announcement of the new MISTER MIRACLE series by Pasko, Ric Estrada & Joe Staton, which never materialized.
"The Return of the New Gods was my introduction to them and I feel that the series, taken on its own merits and seperate from Kirby, was not that bad."
Same here, except even then, I could tell Steve Englehart was 10 times the writer Gerry Conway was. It makes me shake my head in dismay that Englehart planned in advance to only do 3 issues, and then, they had Len Wein in mind to take over after him, except Len was backed up with other work, so, first, Engehart did a 4th issue under a psudonym, and then, Steve Gerber did 3 issues, in a completely different direction, but somehow JUST as brilliant as Englehart's had been-- yet, like Englehart, Gerber was (as someone put it) only a "place-holder". ABSURD!!!!! So the "new regular" writer never did wind up working on the book...
KAMANDI, THE LAST BOY ON EARTH #41 / May'76
The image I found of this was so far off-rotation, I wound up having to "fill in" art on all 4 edges (left, right, top and bottom).
On the other hand, the colors were easy to adjust, though the skin tones are a BIT faded...
KAMANDI, THE LAST BOY ON EARTH #42 / Jun'76
A real "quickie" (which I could use more of). Mostly the left edge needed a bit of cleaning up.
Art by Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez!
The composition of the cover to Kamandi #42 is fantastic. The triangle in the corner, the full moon. It all works.
I definitely prefer Garcia-Lopez over Kubert. I was reading last month that Garcia-Lopez' designs were apparently the "standard" that the characters on SUPER-FRIENDS and SUPER POWERS were based on.
I wish the paper wasn't so thin. I would have had to spend a LOT more time on that thing to eliminate some of the all-too-obvious bleed-thru from the inside. (Of course, it could be the way it was scanned... hard to tell. I don't have any of the KAMANDI issues, except for the final one.)
And speaking of SUPER-FRIENDS... you can probably guess which cover is coming up next!!!