I have decided to post this final item after replies I've received about some of my own posts - most recently from Dagwan, on the "Thor material published 2009-2011" and "Fear Itself."


My great sorrow is seeing things happening on this board that I wouldn't have countenanced when I was Admin... ah, but we all know that what's done is what's done, and "shut up and get out" was the order of the day.

 

Regarding my comments and Dagwan's:

 

Interesting that I haven't heard from any of the admins yet... well, except for Dagwan, of course.  (Still an admin, Dags?  I know that when I was leader of the band, we extended you an invite.)

 

ELS (from Fear Itself thread):  Another summer crossover event, to go with Avengers books crossing over into Avengers books, FF crossing into Spider-Man (at least), Spider Island, and all these books requiring mini-series...  Wow, I am SO glad I'm not collecting this crap anymore.  And from the look of the posted panels above, I'm obviously not cool enough to get them anyhow.  Good luck to Marvel Comics, the house of idea.

 

Dagwan:  You went out of your way to post in a thread about Fear Itself that you're not reading it, and that it's crap. If you want to read something and don't like it, that's fine. Post about how you didn't enjoy it. What didn't work for you. Calling something that others on this board enjoyed quite a bit crap -especially sight unseen- is not just a judgment on the comic but on the opinions of the other members of the board who did like it.

 

You're right.  I DID go out of my way to post something, because I didn't have to come to the Captain Comics board, didn't have to read that posting, and didn't have to comment on it.  Same as anyone else who posts anything on this board.

 

But so we get our facts straight:  I wasn't criticizing Fear Itself as I haven't read it (which you very accurately noted.)  And I criticized Spider Island, and the FF/Spider-Man crossover, and Marvel's general concept of company wide crossovers - which you obviously didn't infer.  Okay, that happens.  I was criticizing the trend of mini-series, and crossing  through several issues of several titles, requiring readers to pick them up as well. I have said the same thing about Secret Invasion, Seige, that Avengers junk, etc.  Shucks, I wasn't all that fond of it back in Secret Wars (and, to be fair, not so hot on it in Crisis on Infinite Earths either.)

 

As to the opinions of those who did like it - what, is it the rule now to not upset the sensibilities of other posters by disagreeing with them?  Then shame on me.

 

Dagwan:  On a related note, do you have anything nice to say about any comics anymore?

 

This was in response to a comic which I think would have failed the standards of a lot of comic book companies, and I thought I gave the reason - characters out of sync with the current continuity (and damn ME for a fool for expecting continuity, right?), art that I really think is little better than high school level... y'know, a critical observation instead of "It sucks because I say it sucks!"  But again, you might not have gotten that - it happens, and although not everyone is happy and pleased with comics today, it seems to be the mandate on this board anymore.

 

Is this mean?  Some people might think it's mean, and some people - like, y'know, those who used to post on these boards - consider it discussion.  I was posting strongly about it because I feel strongly about it... my opinion, and it used to be implicit that that included " YMMV".  But I guess Dagwan didn't get that - okay, that happens.

 

I could go on, but this is obviously a comment on my postings, and, I think, a comment on my presence on the board from Dagwan and, implicitly (even by their silence) from the Admins.  What I think, due to whatever is going on with me, is what I think, and people used to be able to post such around here.

 

Instead, when I asked for what I thought was a reasonable action - if you think I've gone over the line, get the Admins to contact me about it, and if it really upsets you, please ignore it - got a biting, sarcastic reply, and a "don't tell us, go tell the comic book publishers, and stop whining."

 

Nice.  I probably wasn't going to be able to post here for a lot longer anyhow, but this does make it a little easier to decide.

 

So, after everything that has happened to me on this board - Dagwan's comments, the Administrator crap, etc. etc. etc., I will go away with one last comment for the admins.

 

Good riddance to every last one of you.

 

I remain,

  VERY disappointendly,

Eric L. Sofer

The Silver Age Fogey

x<]:o){

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Just some thoughts on some of the things that have come up on this thread:

 

Despite the original post here, most of us would agree that its a convivial place to come and share a few thoughts on this and that.

 

However, it is the way of boards like this that discussion can dry up and traffic slow down as long-time posters become jaded and newcomers might be put off by fixed 'consensus' attitudes to various subjects - where it seems that we've all made up our minds already.

 

If you think this board is a worthwhile place to hang out, then you should take an active part in keeping it alive.  That means posting as regularly as you can, paying attention to what others are saying and engaging with it respectfully.

 

I don't mean to sound like I'm admonishing anyone but the simple message is

 

'Use it, or lose it!'

 

Regarding what can and can't be discussed and how we discuss it, I do think that perhaps the charm of this place - that we are generally friendly and respectful to each other - can be a drawback.  I know comics are close to our hearts and the comics we like and why we like them are very entwined with our personal histories and value systems.  (If they were 'only comics' none of us would read them.)  Still, we should be able to discuss what is going on in them honestly and discuss what we feel isn't working in them without fear that people are going to be personally offended.

 

Sometimes our friendliness and conviviality extends to the creators.  I know its a rule here that we can't criticise the artist, but can criticise the art.  That's a good rule, but the 'baby' in the second part tends to get lost in the bathwater of the first part! 

 

In every other artform robust criticism is a healthy part of that forms growth and development.  We shouldn't be any different just because we're tweeting with the creators.  The closeness between the fans/critics and the creators is often a drawback in comics.  (Although Mark conversing with Wacker and co about what they are putting out is still wonderful!)

 

Comics are great, and can be greater, but part of making them better is discussing what doesn't work and needs improving.  We are only a tiny part of a bigger conversation, but still a part.

 

Being nice is all very well, but I've noticed that people get uncomfortable when I compare duff, made-to-order superhero comics with great stuff by the heavy hitters.  I'd contend there is a lot to learn from the comparison and if comic companies see fit to put duff made-to-order superhero comics out there, they can't complain when people compare them to other books that hit the shelves at the same relative price.

 

Sure, we know the great comics, but often we don't bother looking into why they are great, beyond, "I got a buzz reading it."

 

It's not about kicking the creators of the duff comics when they are down, but about learning about what works and what doesn't.

 

Anyway, that's a bit off my point, which is (again):

 

"Use it, or lose it!"

That's fine with me. But no I wasn't thinking of you at all when I wrote that.

As it happens.
Well, see, that's a bit of  problem in itself.  After all, one man's duff is just another man's fudd, y'know.

Figserello said:
Being nice is all very well, but I've noticed that people get uncomfortable when I compare duff, made-to-order superhero comics with great stuff by the heavy hitters.  I'd contend there is a lot to learn from the comparison and if comic companies see fit to put duff made-to-order superhero comics out there, they can't complain when people compare them to other books that hit the shelves at the same relative price.

 

Sure, we know the great comics, but often we don't bother looking into why they are great, beyond, "I got a buzz reading it."

 

It's not about kicking the creators of the duff comics when they are down, but about learning about what works and what doesn't.

That's good too. All grist to the conversational mill.

eg If anyone wants to jump into the Avengers Initiative thread and explain how Gage's writing on the back end of that run is better than Slott's, or how the generic X-artists pages in the last dozen or so issues are better than Slott's collaborators I'm all ears.

I'm not going to say they are 'only comics', but they are only stories.  It's very human to act out various anxieties and issues in a fictional form. 

 

Stories allow people to see things at a remove that allows them to discuss and experience things that would be too difficult to experience in reality.

 

If you could find way to get that fictional 'remove' working for you, Mark, you'd be able to get more enjoyment out of your comics.

 

Comics are stories that people create to entertain other people.  Hannibal Lecter is a fictional serial killer.  His adventures are entertaining*, smart* and thought-provoking*, but no-one lies awake at night worrying about how many people he's killed.

 

*YMMV of course.

And, of course, stories help us confront things that we may not be capable of doing in real life. For example, the issues of DMZ I've read have always set me to thinking about what it must be like in downtown Baghdad. By putting a war zone in a culture I'm familiar with, I can consider the ramifications without being distracted by cultural differences.

Haven't you ever come across something in a book or a comic that made you put it down and never pick it up again?

 

Only bad writing, or stuff that's exploitative for its own sake, or stuff that tries to pass off politics I don't believe in as 'only common sense'.

 

For years I avoided war films because all the death and pain just didn't seem like entertainment to me.  Although I've learned to enjoy a good war movie as much as the next man, I was thinking only yesterday that I doubt I'll ever feel like sitting through 'Saving Private Ryan' again.  So I have some understanding of where you are at.  I know its only fiction, and Tom Hanks is just an actor who was on the telly the other night hugging Oprah Winfrey, but ...

 

When I studied English Literature at university, I worried that all the analysis was getting in the way of being immersed in good books and good fiction, and losing myself in them the way I used to as a kid.

 

But in your case, a little more analysis and 'remove' from a lot of these stories would perhaps be a good thing.  If you could see these characters and plot details as parts of a writer's argument rather than getting caught up in the emotions that they are trying to evoke, reading certain comics would be less stressful for you.

 

As have lots of posters before me, I say this in a genuine spirit of wanting you to enjoy comics more.

 

PS that looks like a good book!  The Unwritten guys have at least heard of it, methinks.

 

 

I've been watching The Killing on AMC. It's well done and emotionally gripping but I doubt I'll sit through it again. An excellant series but not "entertaining".
Mark S. Ogilvie said:

I can't imagine what the writer was trying to say beyond "Government Bad" and I felt that that message had pretty much been fully established.  Government being bad to kids was just not something that I was comfortable reading.


Some people get on a message and won't get off it.

I never thought of Henry Peter Gyrich as evil per se but as a frightened insecure man when faced by these beings of incredible power and the stubbornness of their convictions. He wanted to rein them in, control them not only as a national interest but to justify his own existence. He does not believe in "super-heroes" only "lucky" people who get power that they don't deserve, in his mind anyway. They are resources, nothing more.

I read Avengers:The Initiative not as "Governmnent Bad" but as "Government Trying to Do Good But in the Wrong Way". It fitted Gyrich's world view but not ours and hopefully not the heroes as they learned.

General Eiling transforrmed in the "Shaggy Man" from the Justice League cartoon?

Mark S. Ogilvie said:
It'd be fun to see how Gyrich would handle having superpowers himself.
Mark S. Ogilvie said:
Or not.

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