After being cancelled in 1972, the Teen Titans made a couple of appearances in Brave & Bold as its members went their separate ways. However during the 52 and 100 Pagers, several of their stories were reprinted, most with that gorgeous Nick Cardy art. After sales and letters of DC Super-Star #1 and Super Team Family #1 and #7 came in, DC was convinced to give the Fab More-Than-Four another shot, reviving the series with #44 (N'76).

They reunited Robin, Kid Flash, Wonder GirlSpeedy and Mal, supposedly not seeing each for two years. And not being with Speedy since his drug addiction from Green Lantern/Green Arrow #85-86 (S-N'71), despite their early 70s Teen Titans and B&B adventures! Kid Flash and Speedy immediately start rutting as soon as they see Wonder Girl who plays along. Mal is upset that he's been tending to the Titans HQ all by himself even though he volunteered to do so! He namedrops Lilith, Gnarrk, Hawk and Dove as "whatever Happened To...".

But their reunion was all a trap by DOCTOR LIGHT whose weaponry (and dumb luck, to be honest) allows him to capture Robin and Wonder Girl and escape. This causes the other three to snipe at each other and split up.

Doctor Light tortures them to get the coordinates of the Justice League Satellite (of Love) so he can destroy it with a giant, orbiting magnifying glass (no, seriously!) then captures Kid Flash and Speedy separately, gathers them up and polishes off the Flash way too quickly.

Mal, angry about being left behind, goes through the other Titans' trophy cases and gets a super-strength giving exo-skeleton (from Batman #192) and the costume, helmet and shield of the Golden Age Guardian, thus becoming the Guardian II (or III, depending on the Golden Guardian from Jimmy Olsen). He flies the Titans' mini-rocket to the JLA Satellite, distracts Doctor Light, frees the other Titans and saves the day. The Titans decide to stay together!

The story was uneven and the art was rough. No one looked good here. Kid Flash and Speedy were more concerned about scoring with Wonder Girl, Wonder Girl keeps forgetting that she has super-strength, no way Robin tells any of this to Batman and Mal...

Well, I liked Mal as Guardian but it took him two years to realize that he needed to step up his game to hang with the Titans? Really?

Mister Jupiter gets referenced but Aqualad does NOT! 

The text page was interesting as it mentions Beast Boy though he wasn't a member. And hints that Hawk & Dove may have retired.

Next: Just Call Me Angel of the Mourning! OR Blow It Out Your Ear!

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I've been thinking recently that Donna, much like the Phantom Stranger, shouldn't have a real origin. In fact, that's something a quality writer could have a lot of fun with. Maybe have her recount her origin in every issue only for it to change each time. Embrace the lack of continuity. 

That is IMO not all that different from how John Byrne left her - or as she seems to have been since.

It  can easily make sense too. 

She is, after all, related to Wonder Woman in what appears to be an ever-changing way.  And Diana herself tends to have a changeable enough origin, to the point of periodically attempting to find out which it is now.

It fits for Donna to have no clear origin, and even for that to being the accepted status quo.

We have no information to what Wonder Girl was called on Paradise Island. Was she raised as "Donna" or did she have an Amazon name? Did she always believe that she was Hippolyta's natural daughter and Diana's real sister? Was she told the truth right before she changed her outfit?

And the Adventure Comics story does mess up her New Teen Titans background. Strange (and somewhat creepy) that Donna gets stalked and used by a teacher-type only to fall in love with a teacher!

IIRC, up until she joined the Titans Donna did not exist as such.  She was either an entirely imaginary character (even in-world) or Diana when she was younger.  Having her join the Titans was, from what I know, a continuity mistake given reign.


On hindsight, she spent most of her life being by far the youngest of all people that she truly knew.  It makes sense that she would feel attracted to people that she perceived as mature and wise.  So yes, I guess it is kind of creepy.

So, since Donna is essentially a thought experiment and Wally possibly traveling through time and blinking in and out of existence, would that be a good explanation as to why villains like Ding Ding Daddy and The Ant ever gave ghd Titans more than a few seconds to defeat? 

If Donna was attracted to someone "mature & wise", why did she seemingly date Speedy for so long?  Of course, having dated him for so long might have been what led her to seek the opposite.  Or, it could be that immature redheads who think they've got it all together might actually be her type.

Luis Olavo de Moura Dantas said:

IIRC, up until she joined the Titans Donna did not exist as such.  She was either an entirely imaginary character (even in-world) or Diana when she was younger.  Having her join the Titans was, from what I know, a continuity mistake given reign.


On hindsight, she spent most of her life being by far the youngest of all people that she truly knew.  It makes sense that she would feel attracted to people that she perceived as mature and wise.  So yes, I guess it is kind of creepy.

As I understand it (I may easily be wrong) there are essentially three distinct phases to the relatioship between Roy and Donna.

There is the time up until the early 1970s (before the Teen Titans book was first cancelled) where they did not have much of one and Speedy was perhaps a bit more idealized than he has become since.  It has been pointed out by others that while there are several issues of that run published after that fateful issue of Green Lantern / Green Arrow which revealed Roy to have a drug problem, the Titans book did not acknowledge that situation at all.  Not until the relaunch discussed in this thread, at least.

There may or there may not have been any clear flirtations between the two during that period, but I don't think that they went anywhere near full dating.  I don't think that Donna was even perceived to be old enough to actually date, either.  A quick search tells me that Roy did claim to have earned a date with Donna in #19, but it does not seem to have happened on-panel and may even have been meant as hyperbole at the time.  He even seems to have hit on her roommate Sharon Tracy with no visible sign of jealousness from Donna.

Then there are these ten issues of the mid-1970s run from #44 to #53.  There are some early noises coming from Donna in #44, certainly, but again it is not at all clear that they are actually dating (although Wally gets jealous enough).  Soon enough Speedy is hitting on Duela Dent and being given the boot by her, even.  

And then there is the 1990s relationship that explicitly came as an attempt by Donna to rebel against her perception that Wally had recreated her memories and personality in too idealized, too lily-white a form.  But of course, by that point she had already married to a significantly older man (Terry), given birth, separated and lost son and ex-husband.  Worse still, she had been known to date Kyle Rayner already, so...

Dave Elyea said:

If Donna was attracted to someone "mature & wise", why did she seemingly date Speedy for so long?  Of course, having dated him for so long might have been what led her to seek the opposite.  Or, it could be that immature redheads who think they've got it all together might actually be her type.

Luis Olavo de Moura Dantas said:

IIRC, up until she joined the Titans Donna did not exist as such.  She was either an entirely imaginary character (even in-world) or Diana when she was younger.  Having her join the Titans was, from what I know, a continuity mistake given reign.


On hindsight, she spent most of her life being by far the youngest of all people that she truly knew.  It makes sense that she would feel attracted to people that she perceived as mature and wise.  So yes, I guess it is kind of creepy.

Speedy guested in the "Robin" story in Detective Comics #402. Near the end he leaves for a date with Wonder Girl.

I used the term "seemingly dated" because most of whatever their relationship was happened off-panel, if it happened at all.  Donna was pretty flirty during her Princess Ponytail years, and most of the male Titans expressed some degree of interest in her, but Speedy was the most direct of them, except maybe Hawk.  As noted some pages back, Batman seemed to think that Robin was more interested in Wonder Girl than he'd let on in the Teen Titans series.  Of course, Speedy was even more inclined than the early version of Donna to flirt with anything that moves, and frankly, there is something fundamentally messed up about Roy.  My thinking is that the main reason they were paired off (to the extent  that anyone in the Titans was before Mal & Karen became a couple) was that Speedy only joined the Titans after Green Arrow's solo series had been discontinued, and I believe that all versions of Wonder Girl had been literally filed away in Wonder Woman's book, so both were available to provide a romance element without dealing with other editorial input.  Early in the New Titans, one of the things delaying Robin's relationship with Starfire was that he was the love slave of a vampiress in the Batman books for some months.  I'm sure it was also not coincidental that, without having to appear in his usual role as Green Arrow's sidekick, Speedy was given a total personality remake (which is to say, he finally got some kind of personality at all), becoming more like Hawkeye in the Avengers, serving as a counterpoint to the team's straight arrow leader, and generally stirring things up.

I've always been curious about Speedy's appearance in Detective #402, as he suddenly has custody of the Arrowplane (presumably storing it at Mr. Jupiter's private airstrip?), as I'm pretty sure Oliver had lost the Queen Estate (with the Arrow Cave) by that point.  Not that teasing out a coherent timeline of events across multiple comic book titles is much easier than keeping track of characters respective ages.  Teen Titans #44 tells us that Speedy's drug problem took place sometime between that issue and #43, during the "two year" hiatus, which I suppose makes sense, as when GL #85 &86 were published, the Titans (including Speedy) were either on Dog Island (TT #34) or in Verona, Italy (TT #35-36).  On the other hand, one of the Titans' Drug PSA comics has Speedy state that he started doing drugs when he was 12 or 13, so in that case, he was using during his entire original Titans career, which opens a whole new can of worms.

I try not to think about Donna getting "rebooted" via Wally's memories of her.  Maybe it's just me, but being recreated from the perspective of someone who had an unrequited crush on me for years is kind of disturbing.  For our purposes here, when post-reboot Donna got involved with Speedy to break away from Wally's too perfect to be real concept of her, perhaps Wally had downplayed her previous involvement with Speedy during the reboot process, so Donna didn't remember that she was "rebelling" by doing exactly what she'd done before?

On the other hand, one of the Titans' Drug PSA comics has Speedy state that he started doing drugs when he was 12 or 13, so in that case, he was using during his entire original Titans career, which opens a whole new can of worms.

Even before this statement, I wondered whether Roy graduated high school later than the others not because he was younger but because he failed classes due to drug use.

And it would really make one question Oliver Queen's competence as a legal guardian!

Richard Willis said:

On the other hand, one of the Titans' Drug PSA comics has Speedy state that he started doing drugs when he was 12 or 13, so in that case, he was using during his entire original Titans career, which opens a whole new can of worms.

Even before this statement, I wondered whether Roy graduated high school later than the others not because he was younger but because he failed classes due to drug use.

Did Roy ever actually graduate from high school?  Most of the Titans' educational backgrounds are almost as vague as their relative ages.  We know that Dick graduated from high school  and started at Hudson U in 1969/1970 real time. Aqualad attended American public schools at least sporadically, so he probably had a diploma before he went to college in Scotland.  Donna was educated by private tutors on Paradise Island, but presumably when the Titans created the false identity of "Donna Troy" for her so that she could live a normal life in Man's World, they provided some sort of fake school records for her (I also believe "Donna Troy" was 18 years old on paper, regardless of Wonder Girl's actual age, in order to avoid the whole legal guardian issue).   Wally graduated from high school in 1980 real time, and I can't believe it took me until now to realize that the presence of the other Titans (out of costume) at his graduation could easily have been explained by the fact that Wally West became friends with Roy, Dick, etc. when they were all part of a "summer internship" with the Jupiter Foundation.  I have no idea why Clark Kent or Bruce Wayne was there.  Roy attended public high school in Star City, but I have no idea what happened to him, education-wise, after Green Arrow's solo strip was discontinued after World's Finest #140.  I always thought that Roy had turned 18 around the same time Oliver lost his fortune, but honestly, the only reason I wanted to think that was that it was the simplest solution to the matter of Roy's guardianship, but it's not like it would be entirely out of character for Oliver to just bail on Roy legally as well as emotionally.  We know that Lilith ran away from home at 16, so she most likely dropped out of high school--maybe the Jupiter program included getting her and Roy their GEDs?  Hawk & Dove most likely graduated from high school before Teen Titans #50. Mal, of course, has never had his school history explored.

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