What I've got is the new releases with the enhanced special effects - I'll comment on these as best I can, shame I haven't got the originals to compare and contrast, but such is life. I put up the "spoiler" just on the off chance that there's someone here that hasn't seen all these a million times - you never know, I suppose.

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Mark S. Ogilvie said:

If he thought about it. Why would he think it was just a replica? Considering what Kirk had been through over the years I think his assumption that the crew was missing was the first one he'd make.

 

I agree that his first question would almost certainly be "Where's everybody gone?", but I also think that, being Kirk, he'd pretty quickly spot some incongruity that would give the game away. I tend to think of Kirk as being second only to Scotty (and maybe Spock) in the "knowing the Enterprise inside out" department.

Jeff of Earth-J said:

Adam, I know that you know that I would never presume to dispute you on a military matter! I suspected that the definition I provided was so much smoke, and chose to soften its impact by prefacing it with the phrase “in the Star Trek universe.”

Oh, I knew you weren't necessarily subscribing to that "old-style flag admiral" nonsense, Jeff.  But, unless I'm misunderstanding because the words are out of context, it sure appears that the person who wrote the material you cited was of the impression that the Navy used to have "flag admirals" (hence his use of the term "old-style").  Certainly, the Star Trek universe might have "starcluster ensigns" in its Starfleet for all I know (or care); I don't presume to speak to anything there.  But it sure sounded like he was drawing a parallel with the real-world Navy and that always makes the short-hairs on the back of my neck bristle if the speaker doesn't do his research.

 

Actually, that writer's description of the duties of a Starfleet fleet captain mirror those of a real-world U.S. Navy commodore.  See my above post to Mr. Portelli---if you dare!

 

 



The Baron said:


Mark S. Ogilvie said:

If he thought about it. Why would he think it was just a replica? Considering what Kirk had been through over the years I think his assumption that the crew was missing was the first one he'd make.

 

I agree that his first question would almost certainly be "Where's everybody gone?", but I also think that, being Kirk, he'd pretty quickly spot some incongruity that would give the game away. I tend to think of Kirk as being second only to Scotty (and maybe Spock) in the "knowing the Enterprise inside out" department.

Yes, and he did say that in the episode. "I know every sound that this ship could make and every sound that it could make." I don't think that was a boast so maybe he should have thought about it. But -like me- he'd have to ask why? Why build a replica Enterprise when all that they wanted was his blood? Would have been nice to see more of the culture of that planet.

This was a message episode and they took some short cuts. When I was six I never minded that.

Mark S. Ogilvie said:

If he thought about it. Why would he think it was just a replica? Considering what Kirk had been through over the years I think his assumption that the crew was missing was the first one he'd make.

This brings to mind the phrase "when you hear hoofbeats you don't think zebras."

On the matter of five-star and (yes) six-star officers, I found this concise authoritative page on the Arlington National Cemetery site:

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.mil/History/Military/HF_FiveStarOff.aspx

My thanks to Commander Benson! I found your essay (sorry!), to coin a phrase, fascinating. I'm grateful that you took the time to explain all that. I'll try not to ask anymore complicated questions!

 Military history is always filled with these situations that are both relatable and confusing! I never heard of anyone in the modern time being addressed as "Commodore" unless it was either in Star Trek or, of course, this guy!

Still does anyone else see being a Commodore as more of a bureaucratic job than an active role? I'm sure Kirk would see being made a Commodore a demotion instead of a promotion.

Not that it bothered Lionel Ritchie! ;-)

Commander Benson said:

Oh, I knew you weren't necessarily subscribing to that "old-style flag admiral" nonsense, Jeff. But, unless I'm misunderstanding because the words are out of context, it sure appears that the person who wrote the material you cited was of the impression that the Navy used to have "flag admirals" (hence his use of the term "old-style").

 

 


Certainly, I agree. Perhaps you will find the level of research employed by Michael and Denise Okuda, authors of Star Trek Chronology: The History of the Future, more palatable.

 

One of their basic assumptions is that the Star Trek timeline does make sense, and they do their best to smooth over the niggling inconsistencies which inevitably creep in to a franchise spanning nearly 50 years. For example, the episode “Obsession” establishes that Kirk’s “first assignment” after graduating from Starfleet Academy was his posting to the Farragut as a Lieutenant, yet the earlier episode “Court Martial” established that he served as an ensign aboard the Republic. Earlier still, in “Where No Man has Gone Before,” Gary Mitchel mentions attending a class taught by Lieutenant Kirk while still at Star Fleet Academy.

 

The Okudas explain it thus: The apparent fact that Kirk would have been an ensign (and later a lieutenant) while still at Starfleet Academy will probably raise some eyebrows among those familiar with protocol at present-day military schools, but we are told that at such institutions it is possible (though very uncommon) for a student to be accorded a rank such as ensign prior to graduation. Additionally, it is probably reasonable to assume that Star Fleet, while steeped in tradition, has also changed a few things from the way its 20th-century predecessors did them.

 

To my way of thinking, that last sentence leaves a lot of wiggle room. Also, considering one of the episodes Bob reviewed recently referred to the 20th century as “ancient Earth,” it’s not too big of a stretch to interpret that “old-style” might refer to the early days of Star Fleet. :)

 

Now you must excuse me while I read up on commodores. ;)

That Which Survives:

Teleplay by John Meredyth Lucas/Story by Michael Richards

Directed by Herb Wallerstein

 

Synopsis: Our heroes must evade women who want to touch them.

 

Thoughts:

1)"A planet even Spock can't explain." 

 

2)"You must not go!"  Perhaps the warning might have been more effective if it had been delivered before they began to beam down.

 

3)"Mister Sulu, if I'd've wanted a Russian history lesson I'd've brought along Mister Chekov." Kirk seems to have it in for Sulu a bit in this one.

 

4)"I am for you, Lieutenant D'Amato."  You know, a weapon that can only hurt the specific person it's aimed at is of somewhat limited utility.

 

5)"Looks so lonely there." "It would be worse if he had company."

 

6)"I don't want to have to kill a woman." Killing men is ok, though?

 

7)"Bones, did you see that?"  Should Kirk be all that astonished by Losira disappearing?  He uses the transporter all the time!

 

8)"This thing is going to blow up, and there's nothing in the universe can stop it."  "Except me - I'll do it after a few more scenes of telling you why it can't be done."

 

9)"I know what time it is, I don't need a  bloomin' cuckoo clock!"

 

10)I do like the moment where the defnese system figures out that it's not a good idea to announce who you're come for.

 

11)"Reverse polarity on your magnetic probe."  What, no neutron flow?

 

12)Always  good to see the ever-lovely Lee Meriwether as Losira.

 

13)Hey, Watkins was Kenneth Washington!

 

Overall:

A so-so episode.  I did like the bits on the Enterprise - sort of a look at what the show would be like if Spock was captain and Scotty was his first officer.

 

Okay, I’m back. (“Whew!” indeed!) I now have a better understanding of the statement from yesterday, “Actually, that writer's description of the duties of a Starfleet fleet captain mirror those of a real-world U.S. Navy commodore.”

THAT WHICH SURVIVES:

I haven’t seen this episode in a good long while and didn’t realize until last night that Losira was played by the ever-lovely Lee Meriwether.

Tracy wanted to know if Spock was suffering from “Vulcan PMS” this episode.

At the end I felt sort of sorry for that computer. I figured only being able to produce a sort of hologram of Losira that could only kill one person was a sure sign that the computer was about at the end of its operating life. Did Losira's race really create a planet? That's a race that qualifies for an archeological dig at least.

The Lights of Zetar:

Written by Jeremy Tarcher and Shari Lewis (Shari Lewis? Seriously? Wow!)

Directed by Herb Konwith

 

Synopsis: Complications ensue when Scotty's girlfriend tries to go to the library.

 

Thoughts:

1)Is Kirk really entering all that palaver about Scotty's love life into his log?  I picture someone at Starfleet reading these log entries and saying, "What the hell is he talking about?"

 

2)"Memory Alpha has no protective shields." Not even agianst ion storms or space debris?

 

3)"The loss to the galaxy may be irretrievable." What, the Federation doesn't have a DR site?

 

4)I'm a little sketchy as to how gravity pressure is going to hurt incorporeal beings.

 

5)"Humans do claim a great deal for that particular emotion."  Humans say alot of things.

 

6)"Can I stand the strain?" Ha-ha-ha, oh, shut up.

 

Overall:

Another mediocre episode.  I'm particularly un-thrilled with the way Scotty is presented here as a lovesick idiot. Granted, love does funny things to a person, but my image of Scotty is not of someone who would let it affect the way he does his job the way it does here.

Funny, with a disembodied alien force attacking a "library" of sorts, it almost seems like a precursor to the Tenth Doctor story "Silence in the Library".

 

THE LIGHTS OF ZETAR: “Another mediocre episode.” I agree with that. I’m pretty good about knowing all the Star Trek episodes by title only, but this is one I never seem to be able to remember.

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