The Captain Re-Reads 'Avengers'

[Captain Comics]

What hath The Baron wrought?

With his "Baron Re-Reads the JSA" thread, he has inspired us all. Currently John Dunbar is writing a "Dunbar Re-Reads Thor" thread, which calls out for an accompanying "Avengers" thread, at least while Thor is part of that team. So here goes:

AVENGERS #1 (Sep 63)

"The Coming of The Avengers!"

Written by Stan Lee

Drawn by Jack Kirby

Inked by Dick Ayers

Lettered by Sam Rosen

What They're Up To: Ant-Man and The Wasp fight Trago, "The Man with the Magic Trumpet!", in Tales to Astonish #47. Iron Man stars in "The Icy Fingers of Jack Frost!" in Tales of Suspense #45. Thor battles the guy who will become Maha Yogi in "Mad Merlin!" in Journey into Mystery #96.

Synopsis: The story opens on the Isle of Silence in Asgard, where an exiled Loki plots revenge on Thor for his recent defeats at The Thunderer's hand (see Dunbar Re-Reads Thor). By means of "thought projection" Loki peeks in on Thor's civilian identity, Don Blake, doing good on Earth. But defeating Blake would be a "hollow victory" and only defeating Thor will make Loki happy. So he scours the Earth for a threat to force the Thunder God to respond -- and discovers the Hulk. "A huge human figure ... flying through the air! How is that possible?"

Determining that the figure is the Hulk -- apparently Loki keeps up with current events, and recognizes ol' Greenskin -- the Asgardian projects an illusion of TNT on a railroad track, so that the Hulk will accidentally destroy the track and be blamed for a train wreck. This "diabolical scheme" -- yes, Loki calls it that -- works, because even though the Hulk manages to save the train, word goes out that the Hulk is on a rampage.

Rick Jones, Hulk sidekick and leader of The Teen Brigade (formed in Incredible Hulk #6, May 63), decides that "if the Hulk is innocent, he needs help, fast! And if he's guilty, it'll take more than an army to stop 'im!" The solution: Call the Fantastic Four! But Loki diverts the call -- so that it comes out of Don Blake's radio! "Strange," muses Blake. "Sounds like a call for Thor!"

Of course it is! All radio messages that begin "Calling the Fantastic Four" are a call for Thor!

But others have received the message, too, probably because Loki is the God of Evil, not the God of Paying Attention to Detail. Ant-Man and the Wasp have somehow heard it, and Tony "Iron Man" Stark happened to be on the right frequency. The Fantastic Four actually got the message, too -- they're busy, but Reed says his "calculations" say the Teen Brigade will have company soon.

Mighty smart guy, that Reed Richards, because Thor, Iron Man, Ant-Man and Wasp show up at Teen Brigade HQ. "It would seem the gang's all here, eh, lads?" quips that the ever-urbane Tony Stark. But while everybody's doing "Wassup!" Loki projects another illusion in Thor's field of vision, of the Hulk bounding by. Thor gives chase, and when he determines it's an illusion, sees his half-brother's yellow-gauntleted hand in the matter. He hies himself off to Asgard, to give Loki such a noogie.

Undeterred by Thor's disappearance, Iron Man says they'll carry on, and Ant-Man's ants report an incredibly strong guy at a nearby circus. It's the Hulk, dressed as a clown! (Let me repeat that: It's the Hulk, dressed as a clown!) The circus owners think he's an incredibly powerful robot that they just happened to stumble across, because ... well, we can only assume they are as dumb as a bag of hammers.

Ant-Man attacks! He has ants dig a hole that the Hulk falls into! Oh, the indignity! He has ants drop a barrel on the Hulk! Oh,the irritation! Then The Wasp attacks, by flying around Hulk in an annoying fashion! Oh, the humanity! But Hulk prevails, by smashing, except for The Wasp, whom he defeats with a fireplace bellows, which happens to be lying there at the circus. (Well, he can't just smash a girl, can he? It's 1963!)

And in defense of The Wasp's battle tactics, she was actually trying to draw Hulk under a net, that Ant-Man's ants have set up. And it works, in that the Hulk gets under the net, and runs into it while trying to leap away. Of course, it barely slows him down, but hey, it's Ant-Man! What do you want, repulsor rays?

Speaking which, now it's Iron Man's turn! So the Hulk hits him in the chest! And then ... OK, then Iron Man falls down. "Can't go after him until I repair my battery," thinks Iron Man. But as the Hulk flees, Iron Man pleads with him, "Hulk ... wait! I want to help you! You can't remain a fugitive forever! Come back!!"

This is called foreshadowing.

Meanwhile, back in Asgard, Thor pleads with Odin to let him have a little chinwag with Loki. Odin approves but says he cannot interfere, as he loves both his sons equally. (Honestly, he may be the All-Father, but he'll never win Parent of the Year.) Anyway, so be it!

Thor takes a dragon-prowed skiff -- he IS a Viking, after all -- to the Isle of Silence. Loki attacks with animated trees, which Thor buzzes through by spinning his hammer like a buzzsaw. Loki attacks with "volcanic gas globules," which Thor avoids by diving underwater. He whips up a waterspout to carry  him to Loki, and he throws his hammer, which Loki deflects by freezing the air. But then Loki springs his REAL trap: Trolls! The "Silent Ones" for whom the island is named! One grabs Thor, and Loki crows that nothing can break the grip of a troll -- it the troll that gave rise to the "Old Man of the Sea" legend of Sinbad fame!

But as Thor is dragged underground, he pounds the handle of his hammer on the ground, summoning lightning, which blinds the underground-living troll. Loki uses multiple images to fool the Thunder God, who blows them all away by spinning his hammer. Then he uses his hammer to soak up "the magnetic currents that give life to the trolls below!' Which somehow magnetizes Loki to his hammer, and off they go to Earth, because Loki "has much to atone for!"

Meanwhile, Iron Man has chased Hulk to an auto factory -- I had no idea Detroit had a suburb in the Southwest, but whatever -- and throws tires at the Hulk. The Hulk fashions a metal bow and arrow, but Iron Man catches the arrow and turns it into a big grapple, and pins the Hulk! But the Hulk pushes through the wall! "I never expected that!" exclaims Iron Man, who evidently has not been paying attention.

But just as the Invincible One and the Incredible One are squaring off for another round -- Stark has decided the Hulk is too dangerous to run around loose -- Thor arrives with Loki, and rats his half-brother out. "Let me at 'im!" roars the Hulk, but Loki has one more ace up his sleeve -- he turns radioactive! (Which shouldn't bother the Hulk, but it does!)

Fortunately, Ant-Man orders some ants to open a convenient trap door under Loki, who slides down a convenient tunnel into a convenient lead-lined tank! Thor helpfully explains "This is where the trucks that carry radioactive wastes from atomic tests dump their loads for eventual disposal in the ocean!"

There are only four panels left, but you know what happens next. Ant-Man and Wasp suggest they team up in a regular fashion, and everybody decides that's a swell idea, even the Hulk, who is "sick of bein' hunted and hounded!" Hey, maybe Iron Man's speech did some good! Oh, and The Wasp suggests the name Avengers, even though it doesn't make much sense (who are they avenging?), but nobody argues with the cute chick, and a legend is born.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My ranking: 9/10.

OK, I admit that synopsis probably took longer to read than the comic book did. But I wanted to mention every salient element in this book, surely among the most important in the series, if not Marvel history.

There's a story going around that Avengers came to be because Bill Everett was really late on Daredevil #1, which was supposed to come out on Sep 63 instead. That apparently is true! It seems to arise from this Spring.Me post by Marvel uber-editor Tom Brevoort:

"Martin Goodman, Marvel's publisher at the time, was famous for flooding the market with anything that worked. So in early 1963, after the first bunch of Marvel super hero releases started to hit, he told Stan, 'Give me another Spider-Man and another Fantastic Four.' In other words, new characters who were very much like those characters, and would appeal to the same audience. So two books were started: X-Men, which was the Fantastic Four-style book (and even says so on the first two covers) with a team of heroes in identical blue costumes fighting a guy who resembles Doctor Doom on the cover; and Daredevil, which was the Spider-Man book (and says so on the first cover as well), the quippy urban adventurer. Now, Stan was smart enough to do more with these characters and concepts that simply knocking off his earlier characters, but that's where they started. But Bill Everett, with whom Stan co-created Daredevil, had both a day job and a drinking problem. And so production on DAREDEVIL #1 fell way behind. In those days, you booked print time way ahead of time -- and if your book wasn't ready, you paid for the printing time anyway. So it was vital to get something to press on time. But Bill Everett was a favorite of Martin Goodman, stemming back to the '40s when he created the Sub-Mariner. Regardless, there was suddenly a hole in the schedule, with no book where a book should be. In trying to solve this problem, Stan hit on the notion of doing a strip that brought all of the heroes together JLA style -- that would be a book that wouldn't require any ramp-up time, because the characters (and even the villain) all existed already. So he and Jack Kirby brainstormed the first issue, Kirby drew it up hastily, Dick Ayers inked it in what looks like no time flat, and it came out the same month as X-MEN #1. (DAREDEVIL #1 followed around six months later -- with Steve Ditko pitching in to help finish it up, and with a different artist on it beginning with #2.)"

How about that? I've been reading Avengers for 51 years, and didn't know that until this month.

But even though it appears Avengers was thrown together at the last minute, I have to give it high marks for being a blisteringly paced action story that nevertheless worked in tons of exposition about the nascent Marvel Universe and a lot of personality bits.

On personality:

* We see Rick Jones' loyalty to the Hulk.

* We see Wasp making flighty comments about everyone, from "dreamy" Thor  to "hideous" Iron Man.

* We see Ant-Man being a tightass.

* We see Reed Richards being really smart.

* We see Thing be cranky, and Sue scold him.

* Loki could kill Blake any time, but wants to fight -- and beat -- Thor at full power.

Great fun! As to powers:

* Thor makes sure we know he can't fly, but instead follows Hulk " ... by hurling my mighty hammer and holding onto its unbreakable thong!"

* Thor using Mjolnir to gather magnetic currents is the New Hammer Power for this issue.

* We see Tony Stark lounging in his chestplate .. because he can't take it off. We also see that Iron Man can't battle if his "battery" is damaged. (Say, maybe this guy isn't really invincible!)

* We see Ant-Man's mode of travel, and a myriad use of ants. We did NOT see him at full size, which is odd, but I guess we'll more than make up for that next issue!

Other observations:

* No matter how hard Lee works at it, Ant-Man is fundamentally superfluous in this issue. His attacks are weak, and his strategies usually require tremendous coincidence to function, although they fail anyway. I'm guessing it was Lee struggling through this issue that made him re-think this whole Ant-Man business, resulting in Giant-Man (with the next issue).

* Iron Man may be strong, but he's really vulnerable. I mean, punch him in the chest and he goes down.

* In fact, none of them are a match for the Hulk, individually or together. That, like Ant-Man's uselessness, becomes apparent pretty early on, as all they're doing is slowing the Hulk down as he tries to run away. God help them if he turns to fight.

* It's conventional wisdom that Stan Lee thought the perfect number for a team was four, and this grouping of Avengers is pretty much four. Yes, there's The Wasp, but she's written as a flighty ornament -- at best, a distraction for the bad guy while the menfolk figure out a plan. This is really a four-man -- and I emphasize "man" -- team. This is before women's lib, after all, and is written by a guy who grew up in the '40s.

* We have never seen trolls like the ones here, or powers like the ones they exhibit here, and we never will again.

Now for some speculation.

Why these four guys? Well, for one thing, they were pretty much the bulk of the Marvel Universe in September, 1963. The X-Men came out the same month, so none of them were available, even if Stan was inclined to use one (which I doubt). Dr. Strange had debuted the month before, but in a throwaway five-pager in the back of Strange Tales -- not a world-beater yet. The presumed break-out star of the Fantastic Four already had a solo series, so the Human Torch (and the rest of his team) were out. Stan Lee has consistently said for 50 years that he was afraid to put Spider-Man in the Avengers, for fear it would ruin his cool "outsider" status -- and I believe him.

Outside of those characters, the only headliners left were Thor, Iron Man and Ant-Man.

So why the Hulk? Lee says in various books that it was to cause friction in the group, to put in a testy guy as a story launcher. That may be true. But I also think it was to give Hulk a regular spotlight after losing his book, because Lee had faith in him ... and because *I think* Lee was peeved that Martin Goodman had canceled Incredible Hulk to make room for a Two-Gun Kid revival. That last part is pure speculation on my part, but if I were Lee I'd have been peeved, and determined to make the Hulk a success. Your mileage may vary.

In summary, I give this book high marks because it is a great example of what was so cool about Marvel in the early '60s. Lots of action. Lots of personality. The story racing along so breathlessly that you don't have time to stop and notice the flaws. Plus, everybody not getting along. I mean, the bulk of the book is Hulk vs. the rest of the team! Can you imagine, for example, the Justice League forming because everyone ganged up on Martian Manhunter, while Superman fought solo with Lex Luthor on another planet? That sort of thing just wasn't done at Silver Age DC, but Lee & Kirby plowed through a dozen comic-book writer's "thou shalt nots" with this one issue, and it was great fun.

Then and now, Avengers #1 is a hoot!

[John Dunbar]

AVENGERS 22 (NOV 65)

"The Road Back!"

Star-Studded Story by .... Stan Lee!

Peerless Pencilling by .... Don Heck!

Dazzling Delineation by .... Wally Wood!

Lonesome Lettering by .... Artie Simek!

Cover by Jack Kirby and Wally Wood

WHAT THEY'RE UP TO

Thor rescues Jane from the hooded man, who turns out to be reporter Harris Hobbs, trying to learn if Thor is also Don Blake.  Hobbs soon realizes it's a bad idea to trifle with the Thunder God.  Meanwhile, Loki brings the Absorbing Man to Asgard, and chaos ensues, in Journey Into Mystery #122.

Iron Man defeats Titanium Man, but at the cost of Happy's health; and during WW II, Dr. Rawlings turns on the Nazis and saves Captain America and Bucky, in Tales of Suspense #71.

The Leader dissolves the bullet in the Hulk's brain and bathes him with gamma radiation to revitalize his strength.  In gratitude, the Hulk agrees to go to the Watcher's planet to retrieve the "Ultimate Machine" for the Leader, but another powerful creature wants it as well, in Tales to Astonish #73.

Giant-Man and the Wasp do not make any appearances this month.

SYNOPSIS

Cap tries to rally the others to find out who is working with Power Man.  The younger Avengers feel defeated however, and harsh words are exchanged as Cap and Pietro almost come to blows.  The newer Avengers depart, and Cap, left alone blames himself for the team seemingly coming to an end.

Hawkeye, Wanda, and Pietro all attempt to start new careers in show business, but due to the bad publicity the Avengers have earned lately, they find every door slammed in their faces.  The Circus of Crime, recently released from jail after ASM #22, hear of it and send them a telegram inviting the three adventurers to join their circus, which the Avengers are unaware is a criminal operation.  They think they are about to embark on a new exciting career.  The Ringmaster is also excited by the thought that these three ex-Avengers along with the Masters of Menace will be unstoppable.  He reveals their true nature to them, and Pietro tells him he better be joking.  The Ringmaster tries to hypnotize him with his top hat, but with his speed, Pietro easily evades him.  A brawl breaks out, and just as Hawkeye and the twins are about to win, the police arrive.  The Ringmaster says the three ex-Avengers were trying to rob his circus, and they are forced to flee the scene.

The Avengers are now on the police's most wanted list.  People ask "Why don't the original Avengers return and take over?", but Iron Man and Thor both have their hands full with their own problems, and Giant-Man's (and the Wasp's, presumably) whereabouts are unknown.  Power Man gloats to the Enchantress "Well, baby, we did it!" and she admonishes him for calling her "Baby".  Just then, the doorbell rings.  His feelings may not be entirely one-sided though, as the Enchantress thinks there is something about the way Power Man carries himself.

At the door is a fast talking press agent, who says he is there to make the duo rich and famous.  Power Man wants nothing to do with him but the Enchantress is intrigued.  The man suggests that someone has to take the Avengers' place, and the two of them are admired by the public, and could take the role.  When asked why they need him, the man says they need someone to do the thinking and claims *he* is responsible for the downfall of the Avengers.  Power Man loses his temper and gives away that they framed the Avengers and are responsible for all their troubles.  The Enchantress smells a rat and tells him to shut up.  The press agent is actually Captain America in disguise, and he reveals himself to the villains.  He's recorded their entire conversation, and says the tape is on its way to the police.

Cap says he has a debt to repay to Power Man, and challenges him to a fight.  They trash talk each other a bit, and the battle begins.  Power Man has the strength advantage but Cap is the more skilled fighter, so it is a pretty even affair.  Cap notes that the Enchantress is observing and not interfering, likely to test Power Man, which suits him just fine.  After a fierce struggle, Power Man manages to knock Cap out.  He scoops him up and calls out to the Enchantress, but she does not answer.  He then see her unconscious on the floor, and then gets attacked by Hawkeye, Quicksilver, and the Scarlet Witch.

The three young Avengers use teamwork to keep Power Man stymied until Cap recovers.  He says that the tape he made is on its way to the police, and the Avengers are united again.  Sensing that things are unraveling, the Enchantress abandons Power Man and uses her powers to teleport away.  This leaves him despondent and he surrenders.  Cap asks the others what brought them there and they say they received an emergency signal on their portable transceivers.  Cap figures his receiver got damaged and that sent out the signal to the others.

The Avengers are cleared of any wrongdoing, and in addition, Princess Python revealed the Ringmaster's scheme, clearing Hawkeye, Wanda, and Pietro.  Even the City Council has reversed themselves, proclaiming an Avengers Day, and giving them the keys to the city.  Other than Power Man not going to jail because their are no official charges against him, all seems well and Pietro says they will let bygones be bygones and start fresh.  But Cap shocks them all when he tells them he is done being their clown - and he quits!

COMMENTARY

An enjoyable conclusion to this two part episode.  The end of Avengers #21 seemed like the new Avengers had hit rock bottom after being forced to disband.  But things got worse at the start of this issue, with the team's break-up leading to harsh and angry words, and Cap and Pietro almost coming to blows.  Cap is down about the turn of events and seems almost ready to give up; meanwhile, the young Avengers can't catch a break.  They think they do but they get duped by the Circus of Crime and have to run away from the police.   The whole team is humiliated, and truly at their lowest point.  Luckily, Cap comes up with a plan, taking a page out of Batman's book and using a disguise to trick the truth out of the villains.  

The battle with Power Man was really done well, and while I don't want Cap to lose, it's nice in a way that he can be defeated.  Thanks to his experience and skill, he gives a good accounting of himself, which is just what he should be doing.  He doesn't need to be a one-man team, overcoming every obstacle all on his own.  Likewise, it's also good to see the others use the teamwork that Cap taught them against the Circus of Crime and later against Power Man.

I was a bit disappointed in how little the Enchantress was used in this issue.  She just stays back and observes Power Man's fight with Cap when her scheme is clearly coming undone.  Later she gets knocked out off panel during the fight by one of Hawkeye's arrows.  Considering her power level, that seems a bit hard to swallow, even if taken by surprise.  On the other hand, if she used her full powers, she would probably wipe the floor with this team rather quickly, so I can accept it.

Just like last time, the art looks like strong Wally Wood inks over Don Heck's pencils on the first few pages, and past that looks more like Heck inking his own pencils.  Both are eye pleasing to me but again I would prefer more consistency from cover to cover.   Speaking of covers, I really like this one.  The contrast of colors between Cap and the villains makes it pop to me.

Obviously we know the surprise ending of Cap quitting didn't stick and I doubt it fooled anyone back in 1965 either.  Unlike last time, where the hook was "how do the Avengers recover from this?", this just seems like a minor hiccup and cooler heads will prevail (and they would have to, or we don't have a book!).

NEXT:  ONCE AN AVENGER...

[Fred W. Hill]

I agree with your assessment on how the Enchantress was used in this issue, mainly that if she used her full powers, she could have mopped up the floor with the Kookie Quartet by herself as while her magic may not be quite as powerful as Loki's, she is still a goddess, but I'm sure Stan felt the world wasn't ready for the Enchantress and Power Man to take over the Avengers title.  The milestone in this issue is Cap actually quitting the team, essentially out of spite due mainly to having enough of Hawkeye's and Pietro's bickering about his leadership.  Previously in Marvel titles, we'd seen Johnny Storm quit the FF for about half an issue after a spat with Ben Grimm, the Hulk permanently stomped out of the Avengers and came back to fight them because he perceived that they thought he was a bad-tempered lummox and didn't like him, and Hank McCoy temporarily left the X-Men because he got fed up with saving Homo sapiens who treated him like a menace to society.  Hank & Johnny were teens who'd had bad days and the Hulk, well, he was a bad-tempered lummox and the other Avengers really didn't like him all that much, but here was Cap, the seasoned, mature, rational pro losing his cool and throwing in the towel and being serious about it rather than just "testing" his teammates to see if they could make it without him, as Professor X once did to the X-Men.  I think this is a good example of Stan trying to humanize Cap, to show that for all his fighting skill and tenacity, he was still a human being with his own psychological foibles and not a paragon of human perfection. 

I wonder if there were any letters printed by any readers seriously wondering if Cap would really come back.  Also of notice, up to this point there hadn't yet been any Avengers stories longer than two issues, but in this instance Lee includes a cliff-hanger, Cap quitting, that links this 2-parter with the next 2-parter wherein that subplot is resolved.  Another part of a growing trend of telling more complex stories at Marvel, another point of departure from the sort of stories typical of the Distinguished Competition at the time.

[Luke Blanchard]

The Executioner turned up solo in the Hulk's series a couple of months after this.

[Fred W. Hill]

Amora and Skurge must have had a lover's spat that year, but she did lead him on quite a bit.  Just Amora's nature to play headgames with everyone.

[Philip Portelli]

The Enchantress relied on the Executioner and knew he would do whatever she wanted. But what she really wanted was Thor.

[Fred W. Hill]

I"d bet Skurge really liked the song, "Love Stinks" by the J. Giels Band -- "you love her, but she loves him, and he loves somebody else, you just can't win ..."

Philip Portelli said:

The Enchantress relied on the Executioner and knew he would do whatever she wanted. But what she really wanted was Thor.

[Richard Willis]

John Dunbar said:

The Circus of Crime, recently released from jail after ASM #22, hear of it and send them a telegram inviting the three adventurers to join their circus, which the Avengers are unaware is a criminal operation.

I can buy that the three newby Avengers didn’t know that the Ringmaster and company were crooks, but I think one of the cops should have said something like “weren’t these circus people recently sent to jail for robbing their audiences?” Hundreds of people were robbed before Spider-Man stopped them, so a lot of people knew about them.

I was a bit disappointed in how little the Enchantress was used in this issue. She just stays back and observes Power Man's fight with Cap when her scheme is clearly coming undone. Later she gets knocked out off panel during the fight by one of Hawkeye's arrows. Considering her power level, that seems a bit hard to swallow, even if taken by surprise.

Hawkeye knocked her out with a sleep-gas arrow? I didn’t buy that either. Not only is she powerful but, heck, she isn’t even human!

[Richard Willis]

Fred W. Hill said:

Amora and Skurge must have had a lover's spat that year, but she did lead him on quite a bit.  Just Amora's nature to play headgames with everyone.

When did the Enchantress and the Executioner get real names? I don't think it was when I was reading Thor and the Avengers.

[Randy Jackson]

My faulty memory suggests that Amora was named during some point in either Avengers or Thor, but I'm not exactly sure when. Skurge I have no clue--the first mention of his name I recall was during Simonson's run on Thor.

Richard Willis said:

When did the Enchantress and the Executioner get real names? I don't think it was when I was reading Thor and the Avengers.

[Fred W. Hill]

For all I know it probably was Simonson who named them.  To my recall, he was the first writer to really explore their personalities with much depth and he also introduced Amora's sister.

Randy Jackson said:

My faulty memory suggests that Amora was named during some point in either Avengers or Thor, but I'm not exactly sure when. Skurge I have no clue--the first mention of his name I recall was during Simonson's run on Thor.

Richard Willis said:

When did the Enchantress and the Executioner get real names? I don't think it was when I was reading Thor and the Avengers.

[Dave Elyea]

I'm pretty sure that they didn't get names until Simonson was writing them, altho that said, "Amora" sounds more like Stan Lee, if only because it's a Latin-based name applied to a supposedly Norse goddess, while "Skurge" is pure Simonson.

Fred W. Hill said:

For all I know it probably was Simonson who named them.  To my recall, he was the first writer to really explore their personalities with much depth and he also introduced Amora's sister.

Randy Jackson said:

My faulty memory suggests that Amora was named during some point in either Avengers or Thor, but I'm not exactly sure when. Skurge I have no clue--the first mention of his name I recall was during Simonson's run on Thor.

Richard Willis said:

When did the Enchantress and the Executioner get real names? I don't think it was when I was reading Thor and the Avengers.