I personally feel that the “Elektra Saga” should have ended after her resurrection in Daredevil #190.
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A slight divergence:
What did you think of the Zero Hour event? IIRC, the Parallax version of Hal Jordan took Earth back to the Big Bang (!). The only thing that sticks in my mind about it is that now Batman didn't know who killed his parents. Is this when they dropped the original Superboy?
Personally, I liked Zero Hour a lot. It's not usually thought of alongside DC's other "Crisis" seires (Crisis on Infinite Earths, Infinite Crisis, etc.) because the subtitle ("A Crisis in Time") was downplayed, but I think of it in those terms. It had a huge impact on many of my favorite characters and teams at the time (such as the JSA), plus a few good series sprung from it (LSH, Starman).
The Superboy both pre- and post-Zero Hour was Conner Kent, but the "original" Superboy (or at least the one from the "pocket universe") did play a part.
Yep, the most recent Levitz run is all retroboot. I liked it, but I'd never trade it for my beloved 5YL run.
And yeah, Retroboot & Threeboot are what they're called on the LSH fan pages on Facebook, of which I am on Too Damn Many.
And I'm with you for the elevated creator status being in conflict with the "realness" of a run -- especially this early on. I think the way to see whether the "Bendis Legion" has legs will be to wait until it's had a few more writers at the helm... which I am in no hurry to get to.
Jeff of Earth-J said:
“Oh, we diverge here.“
Fair enough. (I figured we would based on the comments you posted last week.) I’ve never before encountered the terms “retroboot” or “threeboot,” but I don’t hang out in fan circles… just here. ;)
In your case, I’d draw the line for “Five Years Later” with LSH #61 (above), and for the post-Zero Hour version at… whatever issue it was they jumped into the “Siege Perilous” or whatever. (I don’t recall the exact issue off the top of my head.)
The problem (for me) with the Bendis Legion is just that: it’s called “The Bendis Legion.” That’s not a slam against Bendis, it’s just that the creator role is elevated about the series itself. For that reason, it can never be “real” to me. Havinbg said that, I am looking forward to the first issue of the new series tomorrow.
May I assume you’re lumping the Paul Levitz’s “recent Legion in with Geoff Johns’ reboot?
Hunh. This is a hard conversation for me to contribute to. I don't fit any of the models presented so far.
Captain Comics said:
Hunh. This is a hard conversation for me to contribute to. I don't fit any of the models presented so far.
Really? I thought you stated things pretty clearly in this thread: "The Day I Stopped Buying Spider-Man"
Jeff of Earth-J said:
“Jeff, that's a great explanation of drawing the line.”
Thanks, Rob. I plan to keep this up for a while yet, then revisit it occasionally. As always, others should feel free to jump in as the mood strikes. As far as Marvel is concerned, I’m tempted to draw several lines with “Heroes Reborn.” That’s when Fantastic Four became Jim Lee’s Fantastic Four, Avengers became Rob Liefeld’s Avengers, and so on.
I don't think I could go title by title, but I have some hazy cut off points in my mind. The "real" Marvel Universe concludes for me around the time Jim Shooter was fired. Plenty of good runs after that but the cohesive feel of a shared universe migrated over to Valiant with Shooter. With DC it's a bit more clear cut, "Post Crisis doesn't count." I just never really took to being told that the Universe I grew up with no longer existed in it's original form. Byrne's Man of Steel is emblematic of that. I hated that series. Again, plenty of good stories and runs came after but it wasn't "my universe" anymore.
In order not to drive myself crazy, I separate Superman into these versions:
You may want to add a version or two if that makes things easier!
Thinking of Superman, and where I draw the line in a different way. For me, and my reading experience, Superman isn’t really “my” Superman until the Bronze Age. When I met Clark (in the comics, as opposed to TV), he was working at WGBS, but had lots of friends and co-workers at the Daily Planet. Before that -- the Golden and Silver Ages, basically -- there are some brilliant stories, but I can take or leave them as canon.
This Superman is valid for me through Crisis.
Then, after that, there’s the post-Crisis Superman. And those stories ALSO work for me, and gradually HE becomes “my” Superman too. And I think he persists until the Jurgens/Ordway/Stern/Simonson run ends. When Loeb, Johns, Kelly and DeMatteis take the reins, the magic is over, and he’s a character being written by people again. And it’s not till Kurt Busiek takes over for a bit, in a run that recalls when I first met Superman in the 70s, that he feels “real” to me again. (Then again, the Johns stories over in Action don’t have that same feeling, and still seem concoted to me, rather than true. As fun as some of them were.)
Then my post-Crisis Superman came back with Rebirth, and hasn't left.
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