The original Seven Soldiers of Victory (7SV) appeared in "Leading Comics" #1-14 in the Golden Age. They were the Shining Knight, The Vigilante, the Green Arrow and Speedy, the Star Spangled Kid and (God help us all) Stripesy and the Crimson Avenger with his sidekick, Wing as the unofficial 8th soldier.They were revived in the Bronze Age in the classic "Justice League" #100-102. The Star Spangled Kid even joined the Justice Society and founded Infinity, Inc.
Then came the Crisis on Infinite Earths which altered the 7SV's history as it did to many heroes like Superman, Wonder Woman, the JLA, the JSA, Teen Titans, Hawkman, the Legion, etc. The new post Crisis Earth had eliminated, among others, the Golden Age Green Arrow and Speedy. At first their places were taken by Wing and the Vigilante's partner, Billy Gunn and then his sidekick, Stuff the Chinatown Kid. But in the 90s, it was revealed that the Quality archer, the Spider was now a member. On the plus side, he had ditched his bright yellow shirt and blue shorts for a more intimindating black ensemble with spider-motiffs. On the negative side, he was retconned as a villain who murdered Billy Gunn and betrayed the 7SV which caused them to be trapped in time.
It also revealed that the Crimson Avenger did not want Wing to be a super-hero and to make a better life for himself, ironic since this adventure ended with Wing's sacrifice. Also Stuff was in full Chinese mode, complete with a long ponytail, which didn't reflect his actual "Action" appearances.
But now in "DC Universe Legacies" #2 (Au'10), there is a new 7SV back-up which has minor DC Golden Age heroes, TNT and Dan, the Dyna-Mite as members. This does make sense in a way, replace one DC hero with a sidekick with another hero with a sidekick which makes TNT the only choice since they could not use either Batman or Sandman. The only problem is that TNT was killed in "Young All-Stars" #1 in 1987, I believe. That story took place in 1942 so is it still in continuity? So who really were the 7SV? It's amazing that twenty-five years after COIE, our heroes' histories, instead of becoming simpler, are a lot more confusing!
Other DCU:Legacies thoughts: Two issues for the Golden Age seem insufficient.
No Wonder Woman in JSA. Was Hippolyta still a member?
Plastic Man is back as a Golden Age hero.
Great to see the Newsboy Legion taking on the Dead End Kids/Bowery Boys!
Replies
Maybe, the series is only 7 issues. We still have to cover the Silver, Bronze, Modern, Nuclear, Cryptic, Mosaic and post-modern age. Some of those maybe made up.
Who knows? It seems to change often. Oh I guess someone will know.
Was he ever not? I know he has been in current continuity, but I don't know if that made him not a hero of the Golden Age (it may have and I missed it). Grant Morrison basically showed him to be immortal in his JLA series.
I really did enjoy both of the first two issues of DCU: Legacies and am looking forward to the rest.
I've said it before but insread of all the desperate retconning and new crisises we've had since COIE they should've just done a Bobby Ewing moment with E2 Supes coming out of the shower and Lois saying I've just had a terrible dream.
And "DCU:Legacies" is a 10 issue maxi-series so one more issue could have been used.
Jeff of Earth-J said:
In fact, if you read Morrison's Seven Soldiers, you can see the forces behind the curtain moving things around so that whole continuities change in front of your eyes. That series is every bit as obsessed with continuity as this thread is, but alas, like all good stories it just uses it as a jumping off point to tell the story in hand.
That series has a lot of nod backs to various Seven Soldiers storylines btw. You might get a kick out of them if you haven't read it already.
(I don't mean this post to be dissmissive of your questions Phillip, but I personally have long had to adopt a shrug as my response to questions like yours. Continuity is whatever the writer of the story in your hand at that time says it is.)
By the same token, when Grant Morrison has Wildcat say he knew Plastic Man when Plas was a boy and then they show Plas in a Golden Age montage, there appears to be a lack of editorial direction. I'll play by their rules, I just don't like it when they are constantly changing them.
BTW, didn't the Vigilante look real old? He looked much younger in the Jimmy Olsen special from last year!
When was this? During his JLA?
and then they show Plas in a Golden Age montage, there appears to be a lack of editorial direction.
I take it this was aorund the same time? Where was that?
To inconsistencies that happen 'between the same two reboots', my answer is 'Hypertime', True I don't really understand it, but Superman does, and that's good enough for me!
Was there ever a time little inconsistencies like this didn't exist?
No-one in Metropolis remembered that an identical Supergirl had appeared proir to Kara Zor-El's 60's 'introduction'.
During Captain America's 1930's introduction they all chuckle that he might be like that comicbook Human Torch guy.
Commander Benson's Silver Age columns and attached comments seem to be wall-to-wall discussion of the inconsisitencies and logical gaps within each series.
Perhaps the mid-to-late Bronze Age is where the fan-writers most adhered to the holy writ? Especially at Marvel they seemed to build on what had gone before, and cite previous appearances when a character pops up again. Comics then were fun, but I'm not sure they were the best stories superhero comics have to offer. I think I'd rather have innovation over property maintenance. Dracula, Howard the Duck, Micronauts, Rom - these were more interesting comics than the cyclical goings on of the Avengers, Spider-man, Hulk and Fantastic Four on the shelves beside them. Occasionally the execution of the latter trumped the freshness of the former group, but I think comics could bear to lose the latter Bronze Age comics.more than the former group.
My point being that merely keeping properties going 'as is', without changing the status quo too drastically isn't nessecarily serving these properties the best.
The balance has currently switched from the editors to the writers/artists, and I think the loss of linewide consistency in little things continuity-obsessed readers like yourself notice is a worthwhile price to pay for stories the creators are more invested in.
I'm convinced they produce better stories in the main and stay on characters and with the company longer in the new system. Bendis and Johns writing bugs the hell out of me, but they are helping to produce the first years-long line-wide storylines we've seen, which are pleasing a lot of fans, and fairly interesting even to scoffers like me.
There are writers like Slott, who write great stories while using continuity as is, and I'd love to see them all doing this, but continuity is Slott's strength, not everyone's. I'd rather see writers playing to their own strengths, not Dan Slott's, or anyone else's.
Just don't expect Mark Waid to be the expert on any continuity after this week,
And Vigilante should always be shown as an ornery old cuss. What else would he be?
:-)
The Golden Age montage was in "DCU:Legacies" #2.
AND the Vigilante was a singing cowboy/radio star in the 40s, so he was handsome. He probably wore that bandana so his fans wouldn't recognize him.
My main issue is that continuity, or rather the backstory, shouldn't be altered every time a new writer comes onboard. It just creates layers of plot twists, revisions and reworkings that are seldom long lasting. It would be like saying Captain America really was a founding Avenger because he's an easier fit than the Hulk or Uncle Ben was killed by Norman Osborn because it's more dramatic that way.
And thanks for reminding me! It's time to go home! "ILLETROP PILIHP!!"
Ted Grant was into his thirties when he joined the JSA, IIRC, and "Eel" O'Brien looked to be a bit younger, perhaps mid-20's when he became Plas. That makes the line at worst an exaggeration, but at best it could be that he literally knew him when they were both younger, with Ted being older enough to look down on him as a "kid".
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