In the recent Joker/Daffy Duck comic (Side Note: The latest batch of DC/WB crossovers are neither especially good or especially bad), there's a scene in which the Joker kills the patrons of a comedy club and has his gang take their stuff (Another Side Note: Who in the Blue Hell would go to a comedy club in Gotham City? That's just asking for trouble!), and this scene inspired in me a sudden realization.

Now, I'll say up front that I'm sure I'm not the first person to have this realization (or the tenth, or the hundredth, or the thousandth...), it's just something that I never really thought about all that much before.

Anyway, the great realization was this:  

There's no (expletive gerund omitted) way that someone wouldn't have killed the Joker by now.  Victim's grieving relative, vigilante, fed-up cop, "accident in the cells", a villain who's sick of the Joker's crap - someone would have wasted him by now.   I can no longer sustain my suspension of disbelief as regards this character.

 

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And not only Cap surviving a lengthy stay in suspended animation but the same goes for Bucky as the Winter Soldier and he doesn't have the Super Soldier Formula to fall back on!

And the longevity issue can be explained away with Namor and the Original Human Torch but what about Toro?

Really, we should be on our fourth generation of super-heroes by now, with the fifth warming up in the bullpen.

Philip Portelli said:

And not only Cap surviving a lengthy stay in suspended animation but the same goes for Bucky as the Winter Soldier and he doesn't have the Super Soldier Formula to fall back on!

It's been a while since I've read those Winter Soldier stories, but as I recall, the Soviets kept Bucky under suspended animation most of the time, thawing him out only long enough to do a job and putting him back under for years and even decades at a stretch.

Philip Portelli said:

And the longevity issue can be explained away with Namor and the Original Human Torch but what about Toro?

I tried looking up Toro's history in Wikipedia (here), and all I can say is ... my head hurts. 

“On Earth ClarkKent_DC, that never happened.”

On Earth-J, either, buddy.

“What about the whole "Dum Dum has been a LMD since the late 60s" thing?”

I… didn’t know about that one. (Either that, or I repressed it.)

“…it's still canon Namor's wandering around the Bowery and the New York Docks from the early 1950s to FF #4.”

Actually, it not… exactly. As Philip alluded to above, in the current Invaders series it has been revealed that Namor recovered from Destiny’s mindwipe (itself a retcon) and went tooling around the country with Charles Xavier (who eventually messed up Namor’s mind again). In any case, Namor still aged during that increasingly long time frame.

“…what about Toro?”

Toro didn’t age between the time he died (in 1968) and was revived (in 2008). You still have to fudge the numbers to make it work, but any time the Cosmic Cube is involved, reality goes out the window.

Jeff of Earth-J said:

“What about the whole "Dum Dum has been a LMD since the late 60s" thing?”

I… didn’t know about that one. (Either that, or I repressed it.)

I don't know a lot about it -- and I really don't want to find out more -- but I am given to understand that, yes, that is the case.

I gather it's an editorial workaround to explain why Dum Dum Dugan isn't pushing 100, but I ain't buying it. 

Thanks for the correction about Namor. I'm not surprised they rebooted it, but as you say, that doesn't really solve anything or make things simpler.

I have forgotten where I read it, maybe "Original Sin," but yes, Dum Dum was killed in the early days of SHIELD, and Fury had an LMD programmed to not only have Dum Dum's memories, but to think he was Dum Dum. And Fury would give him some sort of placebo over the years, saying it's Infinity Formula. So Dum Dum didn't believe Fury when he said that the Infinity Formula wasn't working on him any more. Because, Dum Dum said, it's working fine on me!

I also dimly recall that the LMD Dum Dum, now aware of his identity, led an iteration of the Howling Commandos, one of them where they are all monsters. I don't believe I read enough of that series to summarize it.

Nor do I care. Whenever that comes up, I book a flight to Planet ClarkKent_DC or Planet J.

As to Bucky, he was specifically and carefully put into suspended animation by the Soviets in 1945, and only thawed him out for brief missions. Cap, on the other hand, was in suspended animation from 1945 to "eight years ago" because he fell into some cold water. I doubt Bucky would have fared the same.

There was a bizarre Chuck Austen story in 2003 that revealed the US government put Cap on ice (the exploding drone plane was a memory implant) to stop him from preventing with the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. Namor shows up at the base in the present, discovers Cap and frees him, but Cap's memories remain foggy about what actually happened.

I think we should be happy they retconned this back to "frozen in ice."

Captain Comics said:

I have forgotten where I read it, maybe "Original Sin," but yes, Dum Dum was killed in the early days of SHIELD, and Fury had an LMD programmed to not only have Dum Dum's memories, but to think he was Dum Dum. And Fury would give him some sort of placebo over the years, saying it's Infinity Formula. So Dum Dum didn't believe Fury when he said that the Infinity Formula wasn't working on him any more. Because, Dum Dum said, it's working fine on me!

I also dimly recall that the LMD Dum Dum, now aware of his identity, led an iteration of the Howling Commandos, one of them where they are all monsters. I don't believe I read enough of that series to summarize it.

Nor do I care. Whenever that comes up, I book a flight to Planet ClarkKent_DC or Planet J.

As to Bucky, he was specifically and carefully put into suspended animation by the Soviets in 1945, and only thawed him out for brief missions. Cap, on the other hand, was in suspended animation from 1945 to "eight years ago" because he fell into some cold water. I doubt Bucky would have fared the same.

“I don't believe I read enough of that series to summarize it.”

Don’t bother.

“Nor do I care.”

Neither do I.

“There was a bizarre Chuck Austen story in 2003 that revealed the US government put Cap on ice (the exploding drone plane was a memory implant) to stop him from preventing with the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings.”

I had completely repressed all memory of that story, now you’ve brought it rushing back.

AARGH!

(Talk about a “Mopee”!)

I forgot about all those terrible Chuck Austen stories from the early aughts. What was wrong with him in those days? He's written a lot of things I like, but his Marvel work was gawdawful.

Was he the one who wrote the story about Hank Pym shrinking down to sexually gratify Janet van Dyne? Or was that Geoff Johns (who was also writing some terrible Avengers stories back then)? I still shudder whenever I think about Ant-Man crawling around "the little man in the boat."

Geoff Johns gets the rap for the Ant-Man sex scene.

I've heard Chuck Austen did some good work but apparently he stopped doing any by the time I encountered his writing.

Captain Comics said:

I forgot about all those terrible Chuck Austen stories from the early aughts. What was wrong with him in those days? He's written a lot of things I like, but his Marvel work was gawdawful.

Was he the one who wrote the story about Hank Pym shrinking down to sexually gratify Janet van Dyne? Or was that Geoff Johns (who was also writing some terrible Avengers stories back then)? I still shudder whenever I think about Ant-Man crawling around "the little man in the boat."

In regards to the Dum Dum LMD, I hated it at the beginning, accepted it because of the "I'm not Dum Dum but I am Dum Dum" persona then became apathetic when he could be programmed and controlled. He needs to be upgraded to better tech and more independence!

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