AVENGERS. “And There Came Another Day…”

There are some interesting threads on this forum, already covering issues of Marvel’s early series – ‘re-reading’’ of the Avengers and Journey into Mystery/Thor and so on and there was quite a good issue by issue thread on the Invaders around too, until it caught up with the present.
What is more rarely discussed are the later periods when these series were in full flow and while perhaps less iconic still number among them some classics…

I therefore present to you an issue by issue critique/discussion forum for one of these mainstay Marvel titles.
Not beginning at the very debut – as others have that covered well – but (and I hope I don’t step on anyone’s creative toes here!) – I would like to pick up the Avengers title after a watershed/bookend issue provided an opportune point at which to begin …
Issue #100 featured all Avengers to that point together in one tale and everything that goes before it is pretty well easily contained by then. The next issue launches the title into its second century of publishing and its next phase of greatness…

What has gone before…?
And so there came a Day…

The formation of the team.
The Hulk leaving. Captain America’s return. The Original members giving way to Cap’s kooky Quartet.
Goliath and Wasp returning. Hercules coming and going. The creation of Ultron. The arrival of the Vision.
Yellow jacket Hawkeye as Goliath II and then back again. The Squadron Sinister/Supreme. The Kree-Skrull War and of course…the Lady Liberators!
(I’m sure you’ll have your own highlights!)

And so there came ANOTHER Day…

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On another thread I opined that the decision to move Fury and the Howlers out of the 1940s caused a lot of complications.

I also think that the decision to freeze Captain America during WWII rather than in the 1950s caused a lot of complications. He could have still been fighting Zemo who (like the character in the James Bond book Moonraker) was a modern-day Nazi firing a missile at a major city.

Then you wouldn't have had to shoehorn in the characters taking over Cap's identity. Of course this was another symptom of Stan and others not expecting the continuity to still be discussed 40-plus years later.

I'm not sure I can recommend it Jeff, I have the comics and whilst the art is good and the stories quite involving there is a whole supporting cast of 'New Men' and some Avengers crossover stuff - I just don't think it's very Pietro-centric.

Jeff of Earth-J said:

“Best about him..? (Son of M - or am I the only one who ever read that?)”

I didn’t bother with that one, but I’ve been considering buying the recently released tpb of the Quicksilver solo series written by John Ostrander. (There’s a discussion of it somewhere on this fourum.)

 

Ron M. said:

Shows Thomas was contradicting himself as he went along. "The real Captain America never met the Whizzer. Whoops! Yes he did!"

It would only be a contradiction (in my opinion) if Roy Thomas said Cap never met the Whizzer.  Is that a real quote?

Contradicting himself as he went along - that doesn't sound like Roy to me.  Quite the opposite in fact - and while he may not have invented the retcon, he was a master of the use of it., especially in books like Invaders and All-Star Squadron.  In my recollection, he was usually pretty good about patching holes and respecting what came before.

In this story, Cap doesn't remember meeting the Whizzer, but Cap's memories of WWII are pretty hazy - he doesn't remember fighting alongside Namor either.  As for the Whizzer, he thought Cap was the same Cap he had met decades earlier, then changed his mind and decided it wasn't the same guy.  I think his state of mind in this story would make him an unreliable witness.

John Dunbar (the mod of maple) said:

Contradicting himself as he went along - that doesn't sound like Roy to me.

I agree that contradicting anything, let alone himself, wasn't a Roy Thomas thing. If anything he respected continuity and plugged holes almost to a fault.

Whizzer: "So--now I know the truth! The Captain America alongside whom I fought was not the true one--but a replacement!" This also goes against the later story that showed the All Winners knew Steve Rogers was "dead" and so was the Spirit of 76. 

Jeff Mace must have been a skilled actor (and make up artist) if people that knew Steve Rogers didn't suspect someone else was in the costume.

Ron M. said:

Whizzer: "So--now I know the truth! The Captain America alongside whom I fought was not the true one--but a replacement!"

He thought it was the same Cap on page 2, changes his mind on page 3.  He's frantic here, attacking first Jarvis and then the Avengers.  He's clearly not in his right mind.  Saying "now I know the truth" means almost nothing.

This also goes against the later story that showed the All Winners knew Steve Rogers was "dead" and so was the Spirit of 76. 

What story (or stories) is this?

Jeff Mace must have been a skilled actor (and make up artist) if people that knew Steve Rogers didn't suspect someone else was in the costume.

Maybe they did, maybe they didn't; since it was the 1940s, they probably wouldn't question the government.

We still have two guys Roy says don't know each other that he's later going to show working together. It's interesting that the only survivors of the pre-FF#1 Marvel Universe all have memory problems. Possibly they'd seen the mess DC was making with Earth-1 and Earth-2 that would eventually lead to Crisis and were being very careful not to go there. Didn't Roy want to bring back the Vision but Stan told him to make a new one instead?

The "untold" All Winners#20 story. Cap III (The Patriot) reveals to the others that the Spirit of 76 (Cap II) was just killed and he's taken his place. Miss America almost loses it hearing he's dead "Just like Steve Rogers!" So they knew who Cap really was, and knew it wasn't him.

Anyone else get 500: Unexpected error. Google says it's a ning problem.



Ron M. said:

Anyone else get 500: Unexpected error. Google says it's a ning problem.

I was getting that a while ago.



Ron M. said:

We still have two guys Roy says don't know each other that he's later going to show working together. It's interesting that the only survivors of the pre-FF#1 Marvel Universe all have memory problems. Possibly they'd seen the mess DC was making with Earth-1 and Earth-2 that would eventually lead to Crisis and were being very careful not to go there.

Give 'em credit, Marvel managed to hold off their Crisis until 2015.

Of course it might just be a game the Beyonders are playing, and they might decide at the end to put their toys back where they found them until next time.

The Baron said:

Give 'em credit, Marvel managed to hold off their Crisis until 2015.

As opposed to countless reboots from DC.

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