Captain America: Civil War Reactions (SPOILERS AHOY!)

Initial reaction: I like it. A lot.  I liked the characterization and the way the picture nodded to comics continuity, without slavishly following it.  I thought Spider-Man was well-presented. (I've not seen any of the other Spider-Man pictures, so I can't compare and contrast.)  I did like that Stark had presence enough to pull him back when he'd done enough, rather than risk him getting badly hurt or killed. I've never been a big Black Panther fan, but I thought the character was well-done here.

Zemo was kind of weak as a villain, though, although he did have a good motivation.  

The battle was pretty cool, I thought.

It was a good picture, although it left me wishing I'd seen the Winter Soldier and Ant-Man pictures. 

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Finally saw the movie (don't ask).

I tried not to get my hopes up but they did a wonderful job with it. I agree with the sentiment here and elsewhere that blaming heroes for not saving everybody and everything from every injury is wrong-headed. If a bad guy throws a crate of eggs off the roof you don't blame the guy that catches it if a couple of the eggs break. And I am also Team Cap.

Spider-Man:
Aunt May gets younger in every film. I don't think this is a deal-breaker, however. I know of a niece who is only two years younger than her aunt. I think all of the Spidey movies have avoided having a sick Aunt May, so her being old isn't really required. I hope they don't dump the Uncle Ben motivation in the Spider-Man Homecoming movie.I also hope that half the movie isn't his origin. I like that Peter's played as 16 by a guy who is only 20. His voice is a little squeaky and should really be lower when he's in costume. I didn't get a good look at it, but it seemed like his first costume was like the Scarlet Spider costume of a few years back. I never bought the elaborate costumes in the first five Spider-Man movies. How do you produce those secretly in your aunt's house? Now that Stark (Tony Stank! Ha ha) is helping him he could believably have a fancier costume. I prefer the one he wore into battle in this movie, however. Loved the Spider Signal!

Bucky/Winter Soldier:
I appreciated the character a lot more in this movie than in the Winter Soldier one. We got to know him better and to understand how his programming works.

Iron Man:
Robert Downey Jr showed his acting chops by making Tony Stark a jerk without making him a monster.

Black Panther:
Based upon his previous work playing Jackie Robinson and James Brown, I had no doubt that Chadwick Boseman would knock it out of the park, and he did.

Ant-Man:
Just as entertaining as in the Ant-Man movie. Loved his turn as Giant-Man and seeing more of his power to shrink and enlarge objects.

Scarlet Witch:
We got to know her a little better. Did they just kill Quicksilver off-screen, kill him in the last movie or pretend he never existed?

Black Widow, Hawkeye, Vision, War Machine, Falcon and Sharon Carter all had good scenes but without as much depth. There is only so much room in even a 2 1/2 hour movie.

Quicksilver was killed in Age of Ultron.

The Baron said:

Quicksilver was killed in Age of Ultron.

Specifically, Quicksilver was shot to death trying to rescue Hawkeye, who was trying to rescue some civilians. 

I guess that slipped my mind. So I guess Fox can use Pietro and Marvel can use Wanda.

Richard Willis said:

I guess that slipped my mind. So I guess Fox can use Pietro and Marvel can use Wanda.

Yeah, that was the deal that was worked out -- Marvel could use Wanda and Pietro as long as it didn't call them "mutants," which is why there was that mumbo-jumbo about them getting their powers from Baron Strucker's Cosmic Cube Tesseract. And then Marvel kills off Pietro, which probably wasn't required.

Some other thoughts about the movie, as promised:

  • Alfre Woodard as the grieving mother was a welcome surprise. She's one of our finest actresses. If she just stood there and read the grocery receipts from your friendly neighborhood supermarket, she'd make it captivating. Certainly she made Tony Stark guilt-ridden enough to pursue what followed after that.
  • Also nice to see William Hurt as Gen. Thaddeus Ross (Ret.), now U.S. Secretary of State. Especially because it confirms that the two solo Hulk movies are part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe; that was never really clear before.
  • Speaking of the Hulk, nice of Ross to point out that neither he nor Thor were in this movie. But where was Nick Fury?
  • I don't know why I was surprised Chadwick Boseman affected an accent to play the Black Panther, but I was. But two minutes after he appeared on screen, I wanted to see that Black Panther solo movie. He was just that captivating.
  • The introduction of T'Challa's father, King T'Chaka, made me consider something I hadn't before: The Black Panther role passes from person to person, as does the role of king. Clearly, however, King T'Chaka's days as the Black Panther were far behind him.
  • Funny how, once the split occurred and the two teams started to choose up sides, that each had their awestruck rookie -- Spider-Man on Team Iron Man and Ant Man on Team Cap.
  • I didn't think they could find a better Spider-Man than Tobey Maguire, but they did. Tom Holland was pitch-perfect. (I never could buy Andrew Garfield in the role, and didn't even bother to see Amazing Spider-Man 2.) I finally felt what old heads like Captain Comics must have felt when they saw those first Spider-Man comics back in 1964. Two minutes in, I wanted to see that Spider-Man solo movie. 
  • Since when is Aunt May that hot young?
  • The mystery of the Winter Soldier. Let's start with: How did they get footage of the Winter Soldier killing Tony Stark's parents?
  • The battle between the two sides was satisfying. The battle was clear and easy to follow -- too many movies have collages of confusing jump cuts -- and it was so fun to see these characters using their powers.
  • At first blush, I was worried for Captain America's side, as he had only one member who can fly, The Falcon, where Team Iron Man had three -- War Machine, The Vision and Iron Man himself. But I needn't have worried. This is the first time I got the sense that Cap's Kooky Quartet from back in the day could actually have been a viable team.
  • Having Giant-Man show up was a great surprise.
  • One thing the movie did right that the comics did wrong was to have an outside agency imprison various members of Team Captain America. I don't know why the Marvel Comics writers didn't understand how wrong it was for Tony Stark and Reed Richards to establish gulags for superpowered beings ... but let's not re-litigate "Civil War" the comics series. That way lies madness.
  • I'm also glad that the movie put to rest any doubt that Captain America can take on an armored foe like Iron Man hand-to-hand and prevail.
  • An interesting thought occurred to me after I read an article pointing out this little detail: After Captain America bested Iron Man, he broke his captured teammates out of prison without the shield. That is, he did it as Steve Rogers, not as Captain America. Could this possibly be the setup for a Nomad storyline, mayhaps ...?

CharlieKweskill said:

I was pleased that the movie didn't turn heroes into villains, as the comic did.  I can completely understand both sides, and it boiled down to one simply thing for me.  Tony Stark has been making some really bad decisions lately, and doesn't trust himself anymore.  So, taking orders from someone else makes sense to him, and gets him off the hook.  Steve Rogers has been watching good people make bad decisions (Stark and Fury to name a few), and has come to the decision that he can't trust other peoples' judgement over his own.

Well said!



CharlieKweskill said:

I was Team Cap, all the way, and loved the irony at the end where Tony Stark was left with the Avengers, but the Avengers roster consisted of just one, himself.  Good story-telling.

Yeah, about that ... one article I read pointed out that, essentially, the bad guy won. His goal was to split up The Avengers, and that's exactly what he accomplished. 

ClarkKent_DC said:

Speaking of the Hulk, nice of Ross to point out that neither he nor Thor were in this movie. But where was Nick Fury?

The Marvel movies and the ABC TV shows are in the same continuity. In this continuity Nick Fury is no longer involved with SHIELD and can't be contacted. Presumably if the script is good enough they can lure back Samuel L. Jackson.

The introduction of T'Challa's father, King T'Chaka, made me consider something I hadn't before: The Black Panther role passes from person to person, as does the role of king. Clearly, however, King T'Chaka's days as the Black Panther were far behind him.

I wondered about that too. Either T'Challa was already serving as the Black Panther or someone else was in the interim. If there was someone else they may explain it in his movie.

The mystery of the Winter Soldier. Let's start with: How did they get footage of the Winter Soldier killing Tony Stark's parents?

I think there was a mention of how and who got the video. It seems to me that Hydra was doing the documenting. So much was going on it wasn't clear.

I'm also glad that the movie put to rest any doubt that Captain America can take on an armored foe like Iron Man hand-to-hand and prevail.

Their final battle was VERY impressive. Tony is only alive because Cap wouldn't kill him.

An interesting thought occurred to me after I read an article pointing out this little detail: After Captain America bested Iron Man, he broke his captured teammates out of prison without the shield. That is, he did it as Steve Rogers, not as Captain America. Could this possibly be the setup for a Nomad storyline, mayhaps ...?

Maybe he does have to stop being Captain America. I think the Sokovia Accords are still in effect at the end of the movie.

Why does Spider-Man sound like his voice hasn't changed yet? Is that his normal speaking voice or did they tell him to talk like that?

There's a theory that Quicksilver died in the Disney film and Wanda was missing from the Fox film (while he had a sister they've said she's supposed to be Polaris) because they worked out a deal that Disney gets Wanda and Fox gets Pietro.

I just received the DVD last night. Here's what I thought:

I liked it (how could I not. It was very well done).

I loved Spider-Man. Even more so, the fact that Peter Parker was shown to already active as Spider-Man during the film. Peter trying to convince Stark that the video of him in action was a techie's creation posted on You-tube was a great touch. Welcome back to the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

I loved Black Panther/T'challa. This was acting at it's finest. But, the role was problematic for me. Why would the king of a sovereign nation, a true king not a constitutional monarch, support bringing super heroes under the heal of the United Nations? The film establishes the Black Panther is indeed Wakanda's protector. Presumably, T'chaka, the king, was the Panther before his son. So, he's going to support an initiative that binds himself to the popular consent of foreign nations? T'chala pursues his own agenda when he hunts down the Winter Soldier. Would he do any less if his nation were threatened? Yet, he stands on the side of the accord, which would bind his actions. O.K. you could argue his father does, but again, I don't see a king limiting his country's champion, if it is threatened. All in all, this was a minor point for me. I chalk it up to the son is not his father.

There are five more winter soldiers. Did anyone else think this was a nod to the Soviet Super Soldiers? Who wouldn't want to see Crimson Dynamo take on Iron Man at some point? Forget about Ursa Major, though. I just don't see that happening.

I loved Ant-Man. There was no variation in the character from his solo film (well, other than the whole Giant Man scene. That was perfectly done). I couldn't help but wonder what Hank Pym/Michael Douglas was thinking off screen.

Zemo. This was a weak point for me. He wasn't German. Was he tied to Hydra (my kids are with me, so there were interruptions. I may have missed some of the finer points. I'll have to re-watch, but feel free to spoil. Also, Zemo's end game takes place in a frozen waste land, but that's no excuse  to give him a ski mask??? Come on, toss me a bone on that one.

Finally, Crossbones. I was really looking forward to his appearance, only to see him presumably killed by Scarlett Which. Very anticlimactic, but still well done. I really hate the seeming obsession with killing off the bad guys in movies. Granted, Crossbones is not exactly a big-bad, but I'd like to see him again. At least Batroc is still around.

This film succeeds, in spite of feeling a bit over stuffed (in a good way, like the Taco Bell burrito).

For my money, four out of five stars.

T'Challa's classic origin had T'Chaka as a much younger man when he was killed by Klaw, with T'Challa himself as a child. Changing the origin (which I didn't mind) does open up the question as to when T'Challa actually became the Black Panther.

The movie was well done. One little issue I did have is that they obviously made the decision to give Cap super-strength, as there's no way an ordinary human could drag down a helicopter. That makes him beaing able to beat Iron Man much more plausible.

One other thing I loved: Spider-Man--despite his inexperience--being the one to figure out how to take down Giant Man. I thought that was really cool. Also, Ultimate Aunt May is significantly younger than 616 Aunt May, so I didn't mind a much younger May.

I thought movie-Cap's super-strength was established when he effortlessly ripped the door off that cab in First Avenger.  I've been under the impression that this version of Steve Rogers has about the same power level as the Lynda Carter Wonder Woman.

Randy Jackson said:

T'Challa's classic origin had T'Chaka as a much younger man when he was killed by Klaw, with T'Challa himself as a child. Changing the origin (which I didn't mind) does open up the question as to when T'Challa actually became the Black Panther.

The movie was well done. One little issue I did have is that they obviously made the decision to give Cap super-strength, as there's no way an ordinary human could drag down a helicopter. That makes him beaing able to beat Iron Man much more plausible.

One other thing I loved: Spider-Man--despite his inexperience--being the one to figure out how to take down Giant Man. I thought that was really cool. Also, Ultimate Aunt May is significantly younger than 616 Aunt May, so I didn't mind a much younger May.

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