Saw this today and I loved it.

Anyone else?

Please know that you should expect MAJOR SPOILERS in this thread...

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Agreed. In Avengers, Cap pointed out that Stark had never had to sacrifice anything, and therefore was a lightweight. Stark responded, pointedly, that "everything that makes you special came out of a bottle." That essentially ended the argument, and no doubt some thought Stark won it. But what was obvious to me was how WRONG Stark was, because what makes Cap special is who he was before the bottle. ("I don't like bullies." Heh.) And the only way to convince someone like Stark is to show him.

Which Cap did. He was both strategist. and tactician during the Battle of New York, with even Stark looking to him for orders. And in the end, Stark learned what it meant to sacrifice something (even though he survived, he didn't think he would -- which makes it a sacrifice). Some pretty solid writing there all around, with guns placed carefully on the mantle piece and going off with just the right timing.

And yes, Evans is miles different from his Human Torch persona, and really centers the movie. I love me some Black Widow, and Johannson was terrific (as usual), but the difference between the characters' moral paradigms was very clearly sketched out. At the end, you can actually believe that a cynical nihilist like Natasha would follow Cap's orders -- and maybe, just maybe, believe in him. That doesn't work if Evans can't pull it off.

And, wow, I sure hope everyone saw last week's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. When they say "Don't trust anybody,' they MEAN "don't trust anybody." My wife, who was kinda losing interest in AoS, turned to me at the end and said "Do we have another? Tell me we have another!" But, alas, that's not until tonight (4/15). I can't wait!

  That's actually what I believe to be characters like Superman's and Captain America's greatest strength: that they can inspire people, that someone like Natasha or even Batman doesn't have to give into the grim cynicism of their lives.  Sometimes that's all a leader can do after all, just point to the horizon and say 'It'll be better once we get past that point' and make people believe that he can get them there.

ClarkKent_DC said:
Before it started, there was a trailer for Scarlett Johannson's upcoming film Lucy (see it here), showing her being thoroughly badass. So why isn't a Black Widow movie on the roster? They'd probably do something stupid like make it Hawkeye and the Black Widow, even though he was pretty useless in The Avengers and even Jeremy Renner has complained that he was given too little to do there.

I was pleased to see they gave Scarlett Johannson more to do than in the previous movies. She's a very good actress and should be allowed to show it. The script and the acting in general were excellent. Chris Evans and Anthony Mackie were very natural together and separately.

Mark S. Ogilvie said:

I think the interesting thing about the WS movie is that it will tie into AOS on the tv, I don't think that there has been a case like that before, where a movie was tied into the same universe as a tv show and had an effect on it. When they did the Batman movie it didn't matter at all to the series. There have been cases where a series went to movie, Firefly comes to mind. You have in effect the Agents of Shield tv show sandwiched between the Avengers and Winter Soldier. I think it is the to credit of the producers that they are doing that, making it almost a regular series comic and two big events.

The Agents of SHIELD show has heavily referenced the Avengers movie and did a brief nod to Thor: The Dark World. As I write this I haven't watched the follow-up AOS episodes yet. They're ready to go.

Doctor Hmmm? said:

And, at the risk of beating a dead horse, I have to praise Chris Evans again. In a movie full of great performances, he still amazes me with his ability to play one of the hardest roles for an actor -- a square-jawed, humble, un-ironic, nice guy hero -- and make him believable and exactly what Cap ought to be, the unquestioned moral center the story and the guy everyone just naturally looks to as the leader. That "Captain's orders" line just kills me, because it says everything about his ability to inspire the people around him.

It just goes to show you. Such characters don't have to be "camp" on screen if the writers know what they're doing.

I was wondering--when it looked like Jenny Agguter's character was beating up all those Hydra agents, did anyone else wonder for a minute if she was going to turn out to be Jackie Falsworth/Spitfire, an old friend of Cap's from England?  Sure, she's too young to be from WW2, but since the first movie moved her father, Montgomery Falsworth, from WW1 to replace Pinky Pinkerton in the Howling Commandos, it wasn't entirely impossible for that to be her.  Until she unmasked.  Well, it was a fun idea while it lasted, I was just wondering if it had occurred to anyone else.

Saw it yesterday and enjoyed it. I agree with a lot of the previous comments. I would also put it 2nd behind Avengers as far as Marvel movies go.

This has to be the bloodiest Marvel movie to date but I have to think that is the best way to go since the characters are all soldiers of one type or another.

I like Chris Evans as an actor but not necessarily in this role. I'm curious what Chris Pine could do with it.

I really like that they are doing the Brubaker Cap. Espionage, paranoia, inner turmoil and noirish angst are all part of my favorite Cap stories.

The elevator scene reminded me a little of my first Cap comic. Giant Size Captain America 1 featured a couple of reprints from Tales of Suspense in which Cap took on big gangs of bad dudes. The cover even pictures him standing on a pile of them as he takes one down.

I also flashed on Spitfire for a second during that scene and was a little disappointed that it wasn't her.

My favorite exchange, Widow: "Bye bye bikinis." Cap: "Yeah, I bet you look terrible in them now."

Yes, I loved that line as well! I like that, even though there was some back-and-forth between the two characters, it never really felt like flirtation.



Detective 445 said:


My favorite exchange, Widow: "Bye bye bikinis." Cap: "Yeah, I bet you look terrible in them now."

I didn't flash on Spitfire in the Jenny Agutter scene (whom I actually did not recognize -- I saw her name in the credits). There was no way they were going to throw in a major character/deus ex machina in the third reel. As soon as Agutter started showing some moves I knew it was Black Widow in disguise (we hadn't seen her in a while). I was a bit surprised, although I shouldn't have been, by the high-tech mask -- I guess I'm conditioned to expect the cheesy rubber masks of Mission: Impossible for the big reveal, but this was pretty cool instead!

I also enjoyed the back-and-forth between Widow and Cap, especially since it was non-romantic. They really don't have anything in common, except being really good at their jobs. So I imagine they'd respect each other, maybe even like each other, but probably wouldn't pal around much after hours.

I knew Spitfire would be highly unlikely, but if she had been there, she'd still have been more of an "Easter egg", like Lord Falsworth in the Howling Commandos was in the previous Cap movie, than a deus ex machina (or at least, no more so than Agent 13 was in this movie--just someone else who has Cap's back, whether he knows it or not.)

Jenny Agutter is currently a young-looking 62, not the 80-plus she portrayed in Winter Soldier.

To me, she will always be Alex in An American Werewolf in London and Jessica in Logan's Run.



Dave Elyea said:

I knew Spitfire would be highly unlikely, but if she had been there, she'd still have been more of an "Easter egg", like Lord Falsworth in the Howling Commandos was in the previous Cap movie, than a deus ex machina (or at least, no more so than Agent 13 was in this movie--just someone else who has Cap's back, whether he knows it or not.)


For me, there was something about the way that scene was shot that gave me the impression that she was moving at super-speed and my mind immediately went to Spitfire because of her age.

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