CoIE / Flashpoint / Doomsday Clock / Generations / Zero Hour Comparison

“Post-Crisis doesn’t count.” So the saying goes. But I maintain Flashpoint was more destructive to previously-established continuity than Crisis on Infinite Earths. Yes, the Adventures of the Justice Society of America and Infinity, Inc. were said to have taken place on “New Earth” rather than “Earth-2” post-Crisis, but their overall continuity wasn’t affected all that much. Let’s look at the titles whose continuities were.

CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS:

SUPERMAN: The way it was originally spun, John Byrne’s Man of Steel limited series didn’t rewrite Superman’s history, just his origin. That’s not true, of course. You can’t rewrite “just” his origin without affecting his history as well. But there was a gap written into the new continuity between Man of Steel #6 and Superman #1 in which Superman’s pre-Crisis adventures were to have happened. As pre-Crisis villains were reintroduced one by one, that “gap” became smaller and smaller as pre-Crisis stories faded away until only Superman’s “history” with the JLA was left. But even that was different as we shall see.

BATMAN: As with Byrne’s Man of Steel, Miller’s Batman: Year One was not to have changed Batman’s history, only his origin. But, also like Superman, Batman’s backstory was changed. For example, whereas his current partner was still Jason Todd, post-Crisis Robin was a street urchin rather than a circus performer. And so on.

WONDER WOMAN: Wonder Woman was, arguably, the hero changed most by Crisis. She was not only given a different origin, but her first appearance in “Man’s World” was moved forward to post-Crisis. (Superman’s Golden Age roots were eliminated, too, but at least his Silver Age backstory was still set pre-Crisis.) That was problematic, especially as it relates to the…

JLA: Pre-Crisis, Wonder Woman was a charter member of the Justice League of America; post-Crisis, that role was relegated to the Black Canary. It has since flip-flopped back and forth so many times I have lost track.

LSH: With there no longer being a “Superboy” in Clark Kent’s past, his place was taken by a Superboy from a “pocket universe” created by the Time Trapper. I, personally, liked this concept (still do); others may (and certainly will) disagree.

FLASHPOINT:

The post-Flashpoint DCU was centered around the formation of the JLA meeting Darkseid for the first time. Right off the bat, all of Jack Kirby’s “Fourth World” continuity: gone. Every story that ever used those characters: gone. Because the origin of the JLA was set a mere five years in the past (and because the role of the Martian Manhunter was relegated to Cyborg), all of Teen Titans continuity: gone. And on and on and on. Whereas (I maintain) much if not most of pre-Crisis continuity was still valid post-Crisis>, Flashpoint wiped the entire slate clean and started, in effect, an entirely new universe with an entirely new continuity.

It is my understanding that DC has kind of backed away from that but, I stopped buying DCU (or “DCnU”) titles pretty much cold turkey eight years ago, I wouldn’t know. Maybe the conclusion of the current Watchmen series will clear that up. We’ll see. In the meantime, I leave you with the following question: Which series, Crisis on Infinite Earths or Flashpoint, did more harm to the DC Universe?

Views: 722

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

"How much of this was DiDio's plan?"

The article I read (in Comic Shop News) indicated that it was pretty much his baby. Even though he's out, the series will go on as planned. After five monthly issues, something *N*E*W* is going to happen in October (or whenever, at this point). One thing this series is going to establish is who the FIRST HERO of the DC Universe is. (CSN played it coy in the main article, but then spoiled it in a sidebar.) If you've seen the solicitations for May, it's not difficult to guess.

Forget all that stuff about about Generations (the whole thing has apparently been $#!t-canned), and let's throw Zero Hour into the mix. DC followed up Crisis on Infinite Earths with History of the DC Universe (two "prestige format" issues later combined into a single hardcover. The last issue of Zero Hour contained an extended timeline which went from 15 billion years ago to the present. the 20th century was presented in great detail, and the last ten years was presented on a year-by-year basis, detailing exactly what was in continuity and what was out. That's something Flashpoint never provided and where I pretty much lost interest in the DCU as a whole. Too bad about Generations. I was really looking forward to it.

All DC continuity from the Crisis on Infinite Earths onwards is an extended, complex "Elseworlds" story.

I loved the timeline. Particularly that it put the Doom Patrol, Metamorpho, etc. in the five year period before Superman debuts so they had their era to shine (which Mark Waid incorporated into his JLA: Year One).

As you say, now they just shred continuity and don't explain the replacement.

Jeff of Earth-J said:

Forget all that stuff about about Generations (the whole thing has apparently been $#!t-canned), and let's throw Zero Hour into the mix. DC followed up Crisis on Infinite Earths with History of the DC Universe (two "prestige format" issues later combined into a single hardcover. The last issue of Zero Hour contained an extended timeline which went from 15 billion years ago to the present. the 20th century was presented in great detail, and the last ten years was presented on a year-by-year basis, detailing exactly what was in continuity and what was out. That's something Flashpoint never provided and where I pretty much lost interest in the DCU as a whole. Too bad about Generations. I was really looking forward to it.

The thing about Zero Hour that annoyed me was that, as far as I could tell, nothing since the Big Bang changed except that Batman didn't know who killed his parents and possibly one other superhero-related thing. This was a little hard for me to accept. Parallax could have rolled time back a few decades and accomplished the same thing.

James Robinson's Starman came out of Zero Hour, plus a new (and pretty good) version of the Legion of super-Heroes, it redefined the JSA (included several significant deaths), Hawkman was affected, Green Arrow... even some of the titles that weren't overtly affected had some pretty good crossovers. YMMV.

I didn't have a problem with it — the idea that DC's timeline was now formally stabilized was enough to make me happy (yes, I know). But they have swung back and forth on Did Batman Know Who Killed Them multiple times since the Crisis, which annoys me. First, I prefer the Golden Age resolution (with the retcon of "The First Batman" too); second, it's not something that really needs retconning, let alone back-and-forth retconning.

Richard Willis said:

The thing about Zero Hour that annoyed me was that, as far as I could tell, nothing since the Big Bang changed except that Batman didn't know who killed his parents and possibly one other superhero-related thing. This was a little hard for me to accept. Parallax could have rolled time back a few decades and accomplished the same thing.

...Who?????

Jeff of Earth-J said:

"How much of this was DiDio's plan?"

The article I read (in Comic Shop News) indicated that it was pretty much his baby. Even though he's out, the series will go on as planned. After five monthly issues, something *N*E*W* is going to happen in October (or whenever, at this point). One thing this series is going to establish is who the FIRST HERO of the DC Universe is. (CSN played it coy in the main article, but then spoiled it in a sidebar.) If you've seen the solicitations for May, it's not difficult to guess.

So who is the First Hero?

Emerkeith Davyjack said:

...Who?????

Jeff of Earth-J said:

"How much of this was DiDio's plan?"

The article I read (in Comic Shop News) indicated that it was pretty much his baby. Even though he's out, the series will go on as planned. After five monthly issues, something *N*E*W* is going to happen in October (or whenever, at this point). One thing this series is going to establish is who the FIRST HERO of the DC Universe is. (CSN played it coy in the main article, but then spoiled it in a sidebar.) If you've seen the solicitations for May, it's not difficult to guess.

"...Who?????"

"So who is the First Hero?"

It was to have been Wonder Woman.

Ah, thanks.

Reply to Discussion

RSS

Groups

Latest Activity

Richard Willis replied to ClarkKent_DC's discussion The Marist College Mindset List for 2026
"Although older Americans may think of Hillary Clinton as primarily First Lady from the 1990s,…"
9 minutes ago
Richard Willis replied to ClarkKent_DC's discussion The New Season (2022)
"I've watched the first two episodes of Quantum Leap, and really like it. The character…"
46 minutes ago
Luke Blanchard replied to Randy Jackson's discussion Fastball Special
"Golden Age heroes with sidekicks sometimes used athletic team-work. The question is what qualifies…"
3 hours ago
Jeff of Earth-J replied to ClarkKent_DC's discussion The Marist College Mindset List for 2026
""They have found a way to make this year's list even more boring than ones from previous…"
3 hours ago
Randy Jackson posted a discussion

Fastball Special

I don't suppose anyone has a list of pitchers and balls for the fastball special? By pitchers I…See More
4 hours ago
ClarkKent_DC posted a discussion

The Marist College Mindset List for 2026

Once again, friends, it's time for the latest guidance from Marist College, which has inherited the…See More
5 hours ago
PowerBook Pete, the Mad Mod replied to Emerkeith Davyjack's discussion All-purpose newspaper strips discussion
"Following are the Mutts comic strips from a couple of weeks ago."
8 hours ago
PowerBook Pete, the Mad Mod replied to Emerkeith Davyjack's discussion All-purpose newspaper strips discussion
"Maybe the word "comics" is a problem, and there are those who consistently refer to them…"
8 hours ago
PowerBook Pete, the Mad Mod replied to Emerkeith Davyjack's discussion All-purpose newspaper strips discussion
"So many still think all comics or animations are for kids after decades of proof otherwise."
8 hours ago
Steve W replied to Steve W's discussion A Cover a Day
8 hours ago
Richard Willis replied to Emerkeith Davyjack's discussion All-purpose newspaper strips discussion
"Jeff of Earth-J said: One of the themed "letters to the editor" columns appeared under…"
9 hours ago
Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod) replied to Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod)'s discussion DC's Digital Backlist
"The list of October releases came out, and it's basically all Wildstorm aside from SSoSV.…"
9 hours ago

© 2022   Captain Comics, board content ©2013 Andrew Smith   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service