Unless I'm missing it (and, if I am, some moderator-type should feel free to move my comment there), the good folks at Captain Comic's have avoided the firestorm that has hit certain places because Michael B.Jordan has been cast as Johnny Storm in the forthcoming FF film. I'm fine with the choice-- the movies are their own entity-- but I'm annoyed that they've stated Sue and Johnny will not be siblings. I think that decision removes an essential part of the FF's squabbling family dynamic.

Anyone else?

 

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Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod) said:

First off, Orange isn't a race. It's not the New Black, whatever Netflix tells you. Certainly, the Marvel Universe is open to exploring issues of race through science fiction metaphor (hello, X-Men!), but Ben Grimm is a white, Jewish guy, no matter what he looks like, He's not his own race of one.

As for kids of mixed parentage who exhibit traits of different races, John's right about that. There's no genetic need to have Johnny and Sue have different parents in the new FF movie. We don't know if or how the filmmakers will explain it; They'll probably feel the need to, but it's not necessary; it happens all the time. (But since it doesn't happen all the time in the movies, there's a good chance there'll be some explanation in the script.)

 

Yeah. This is a movie about the Fantastic Four, not a movie about Johnny and Sue's parents.

Philip Portelli said:

If they remade Star Wars and Luke was white and Leia was black, there would be questions. If they remade Thunderbirds and Scott was white and Virgil was Asian, there would be questions. Because they're changing the backstories of the characters. The relationship can stay the same but the family structure would have to be addressed eventually. Would it be pivotal to the movie? Probably not but I'm nosey that way! ;-)

I don't have a problem with people asking IF the relationship has changed.  I have a problem with people assuming that because one is white and one is black, it MUST have, and they are either no longer related, or one or both must be adopted, or they are step-brother and sister.  Those are possibilities of course, just not the only ones.

The first two Fantastic Four films were nothing like Stan & Jack's. I doubt that's going to change with this one. But I cold be wrong. We'll see.

I wonder if they casted a white actor as the Falcon in Captain America: The Winter Soldier and said that he was the best person for the part, would everyone be expected to accept that?

Yes, I will concede that of the dozens of Marvel super-heroes created in the 1960s, one of the two that were black won't be played by a white actor.

Say, I've never seen The Rise of the Silver Surfer, but the DVD is in the cheapie bin at the Stop & Shop in Islandia for four bucks.  Question: Is it worth four bucks?

I would say so. It had its moments and it has Jessica Alba!

The Baron said:

Say, I've never seen The Rise of the Silver Surfer, but the DVD is in the cheapie bin at the Stop & Shop in Islandia for four bucks.  Question: Is it worth four bucks?

I would say it's worth at least four bucks. More than four bucks? That, I don't know ... 

Philip Portelli said:

I would say so. It had its moments and it has Jessica Alba!

The Baron said:

Say, I've never seen The Rise of the Silver Surfer, but the DVD is in the cheapie bin at the Stop & Shop in Islandia for four bucks.  Question: Is it worth four bucks?

The conversation on race reminded me of this.

Philip Portelli said:

If they remade Star Wars and Luke was white and Leia was black, there would be questions. If they remade Thunderbirds and Scott was white and Virgil was Asian, there would be questions. Because they're changing the backstories of the characters. The relationship can stay the same but the family structure would have to be addressed eventually. Would it be pivotal to the movie? Probably not but I'm nosey that way! ;-)

 

If they remade Star Wars and Luke was white and Leia was black, is this a change to the backstories of the characters? To those characters? Is it? 

 

I wonder if they casted a white actor as the Falcon in Captain America: The Winter Soldier and said that he was the best person for the part, would everyone be expected to accept that?

Yes, I will concede that of the dozens of Marvel super-heroes created in the 1960s, one of the two that were black won't be played by a white actor.

Three! But the Falcon is the one who could be changed (I suppose; I don't know enough about him). Race is built into the backstories of Luke Cage and the Panther in significant ways. Sort of how Daredevil (at least as he has developed) has to be from a working-class Irish Catholic family, the Black Widow should be Russian (less of an issue in her post-Cold War incarnation, I admit) and Captain America should look like Hitler's idea of an Aryan Superman-- except that he despises everything Hitler represents.

Johnny Storm? Not so sure his background needs to be anything more than "smartass younger brother who develops flaming and flying powers." For the record, I wish they'd have put a younger guy in the role.


Two, not three.  Luke Cage first appeared in 1972.



If I was a writer and created a character that was Asian, I think it would be safe to assume that Asian ethnicity was part of my vision for the character.  Now if another writer came along later and wanted to use this character but changed him to a Native American, I think it would be a safe assumption that this writer was departing from the original established version of the character I created. I think that’s fairly obvious.

 

Should anyone have a problem with the change?  I don’t see why they should. Who cares?  If the new version really bothers someone that much, they should just skip it.

 

I doubt if we are ever going to see any film director produce a 100% accurate, all encompassing, definitive translation of a superhero from comic to film. It’s really not even possible.   Even if you remove the fact that changes have to be made to any written source in order to make it work on film, you are still never going to arrive at a version which satisfies everyone as being true to the source.

Seriously,  comicdom is just so predictable.

You could change that to "fandom of any kind." Try Googling "Jack Reacher" and "Tom Cruise" as a recent one. The word "outrage" pops up a lot. They didn't shorten "fanatic" for nothing.

Not so sure his background needs to be anything more than "smartass younger brother who develops flaming and flying powers."

Casting a black guy as the hot-headed younger brother of a white woman will no doubt get them attention, if that's in fact what they've cast him as. Hopefully, they don't intend to change the dynamic that's at the core of the FF. I can understand wanting to add diversity--I hope they do it when they cast the various roles for the JLA (hello, John Stewart and Hawkgirl). 

I actually liked the last movie series pretty well. Jessica Alba wasn't exactly how I pictured Sue Storm, but the rest were pretty good. I'd definitely pick up FF2 in the bargain bin, considering I have the two-disc version.

-- MSA

 

To me, Jessica Alba was one of the things that made the FF movies much, much worse. I didn't mind casting an attractive woman as Sue, but they could at least have found one who could, you know, act.

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