Now that the show has debuted, what are your thoughts?

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Ron M. said:

Alfred's father was named Jarvis?
That would help explain why Marvel was worried about Jarvis being seen as an Alfred rip off and made him an artificial intelligence instead of a butler that kind of resembled original portly Alfred. They knew DC would probably notice and point that out.

I personally never heard Alfred's father's name before the Commander's post. I think it's too obscure for DC to notice it. As a character name that hadn't been used in a long time (1943) I don't think it was actionable. If it was they should have questioned it when the Jarvis character first appeared in 1964. Not doing so probably caused them to miss their opportunity to challenge it, and portly butlers have been around forever. I don't think character names (that aren't book titles) are actionable. DC and Marvel both had characters named Sandman over quite a few years. Marvel never had a book titled that and the characters are totally different.

Ah, Prokofiev!

The Falcone scenes (the hit and the empty hospital) were very “Godfather” (apart from, y’know, the bazooka).

It was somewhat unethical for Leslie to agree to counsel Barbara in the first place. As the scene went on, I kept thinking how it would ruin it for me if Leslie didn’t put an end to it. As the scene played out, I guess I needn’t’ve worried. BTW, shouldn’t Barbara have a scar on her neck from having her throat slashed in the previous episode?

And who cut Penguin loose?

Penguin slipped out of his ropes by himself after Maroni was shot and the whole place was chaos.

I guess Sal Maroni won't be around to throw acid in Harvey Dent's face after all.

OTOH, originally in the comics it was "Boss Moroni" and "Harvey Kent," so maybe Sal has a brother.

Also, Selina Kyle has taken a darker turn in her last two appearances.

Jeff of Earth-J said:

It was somewhat unethical for Leslie to agree to counsel Barbara in the first place. As the scene went on, I kept thinking how it would ruin it for me if Leslie didn’t put an end to it. As the scene played out, I guess I needn’t’ve worried.

I think they did a nice job at the end with Barbara. In the scene Leslie makes the point that she's not a shrink. Presumably they were accomodating Barbara since she had (apparently) been through a terrible ordeal.

It was somewhat unethical for Leslie to agree to counsel Barbara in the first place.

It was well past somewhat. I understand Barbara pleaded, but geez louise, there's no way Leslie should've agreed no matter what--for exactly the reasons that played out. Hmm, Gordon's current squeeze is banging the head of his former squeeze on the floor and claiming she went crazy. How conveeeeenient.

My first thought when Babs lit up at seeing the Ogre's playroom was, "She has the making of a supervillain." It's a clever way to go with her--it hit me only a little bit before she said it that she had killed her own parents, which had already been set up as perfectly reasonable--since she's so entirely dislkable. The notion that Gordon was going to someday marry her was getting to be less and less likely. But then, we only have her deranged word that she killed them. Maybe it was just wishful thinking.

It's definitely more interesting if we don't know the fate of EVERY character. We knew Penguin was coming out of that Fish-Pengy battle (especially since Jada has made it well known she's not coming back next year), although Falcone surviving was a surprise.

I like what's happened with Riddler, he's been a lot of fun to watch develop. I'm less enchanted with Selina, who is long past an unobtrusive cat burglar. She doesn't seem the type to instantly join up as cannon fodd--I mean, a soldier in the mob wars. She seems more likely to be in the shadows. So she's already not the Catwoman we know.

It was good to see Gordon actually hit someone with the 10 million bullets flying around in the gun scenes. His two-fisted shooting was pretty cool. 

And yes, I admit, the final scene did make up for lots of intense looks but little useful activity on the part of Bruce all season. Putting the secret passage behind the fireplace is a goofy idea, but whatever.

-- MSA

I said "somewhat" because they at least paid lip service to how unethical it was. ;)

I like the way they developed the Riddler, too. Not as clever as you thought you were, eh, Eddie?

Since Leslie isn't a shrink I don't think "unethical" is the word. It's more "unwise."

As you say, her banging Barbara's head against the floor multiple times (which a doctor should know is extremely dangerous) is likely to raise questions of motive.

My wife (who is a big Godfather fan) noticed the hospital scene's resemblance to one of the movies.

I love Barbara's heel turn. As noted, whether she killed her parents is up for debate. Whether she's homicidally bonkers is not. Did anyone else think she'd had a little dental work before this episode? Her front teeth still do a squirrel imitation, but she lost the gap between them. I think.

Is there an established comics villain that Barbara could become? I haven't thought of one. But then, I haven't read every Batman story ever written. (Still missing the 1950s!)

I'm less enamored of Selina's heel turn. I kept expecting her to slip back and free Gordon, but no. She's crossed the line from petty theft to accessory to attempted murder. Her behavior isn't "gray" any more, nor can her youth excuse her. She's committing grown-up criminal acts, like holding a gun on police officers and helping in their planned execution. Her next meeting with Jim shouldn't be cordial.

My wife, who doesn't read the pop culture press, said of Fish's seeming demise. "She'll be back. Fish can swim." Well, you know, it IS possible, and that ending was ambiguous (for a TV show). Jada Pinkett-Smith's loud denials doesn't really preclude another contract bringing her back. If popularity warrants.

They're never dead unless you see the body (and often not even then). I knew Jada wasn't coming back next year, so I knew they'd do something to stop her from being around. This left the door open for some appearance later on, or not. Even so, that entire organ-transplant adventure seemed to go nowhere special and really made it hard for me to suspend what little of my disbelief was still available for suspension.

Speaking of Selina's increasing culpability: Reggie threatened to tell the Wayne guy what Bruce was doing, so Selina pushed him out the window. Then they stole the key, Bruce snuck into the safe, it was a trap--because the Wayne guy knew he was coming even without Reggie's warning! And that led to Bruce--being shown the door! Oooh, scary.

Reggie must be feeling pretty crappy knowing he gave his life due to a threat he issued that ultimately paid out with Bruce looking intense by the elevator. And Selina became a wanted criminal for the rest of her life (that Bruce knows first-hand is guilty) for no really good reason. 

I don't know that Batman has too many female villains that Babara could become. The first one that comes to mind is Magpie, the wacko killer who likes shiny objects. That's pretty much Barbara.

-- MSA

Seeing the body means nothing with all those shapeshifters and clone makers running around.

It could drive her bonkers. Get it? Bonkers? Because she...

I'll show myself the door.

Richard Willis said:

As you say, her banging Barbara's head against the floor multiple times (which a doctor should know is extremely dangerous) is likely to raise questions of motive.

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