If we don't have one already, it seems we should have a general thread for all things Spidey.


Here's a post from the Masterworks board, initially in response to a question about John Romita inking Ross Andru. Gerry Conway's run on the book, in many ways, was "MY" era of Spidey. It was the first time I was buying the book new as it came out. I was in high school at the time.

 
 
Yeah. Romita inked (actually, RE-PENCILLED and inked) #121-124 over Gil Kane layouts (discarding his pencils-- I've seen samples).

It was when I got ahold of ESSENTIAL MARVEL TEAM-UP that I began to suspect that Gil Kane did not like having his hard work (full pencils) discarded and unused that way. (Romita's finished pages veered closer to Kane's layouts than they did his pencils.) Ross Andru was the original penciller on MTU, something I'd forgotten. (Perhaps my 2nd-ever exposure to Ross, after that one WW issue in the 60s, was MTU #2, inked by Jim Mooney.)

Anyway, it appears what happened was, Gil Kane & Ross Andru SWAPPED books. The same month, Gil Kane took over MTU (and so readers got to see Kane's full pencils being inked again), while Ross Andru, some years after he did his 1st Spidey story, finally took over as the regular artist on ASM.

The first issue, #125, was the 2nd half of the Man-Wolf story. And here's the funny thing... I DIDN'T NOTICE. Romita's inks tend to be over-powering, and frankly, it just looked terrific to me. The NEXT issue, #126, was the return of the Kangaroo-- and was inked by Jim Mooney. SUDDENLY, I noticed-- "Hey-- they replaced Gil Kane!" I got a laugh when I realized it had happened a month earlier and had gone right by me.

The NEXT one, #127, was when Frank Giacoia & Dave Hunt took over & became the regular inking team for most of the rest of Gerry Conway's run. I REALLY noticed, because all of a sudden, all the characters had a very "intense", almost haggard appearance. Put another way, they all looked "miserable". That was the issue with the FAKE Vulture (which is the tip-off for me, I strongly suspect that issue is when Gerry Conway REALLY took over plotting the book from John Romita-- who had been the plotter ever since ASM #39!!!).

I was never happy with Andru/Giacoia/Hunt... UNTIL the FAKE Mysterio story. All of a sudden, JJJ and the rest of the cast just started to look "right"! (Unless of course Romita decided to start doing touch-ups again...)

Things started to get pretty rough by Conway's last issue. (Which, incidentally, included a FAKE Gwen Stacy-- and a FAKE Spider-Man!)  When Len Wein debuted as both writer & editor on #151, and started a "new era", the first issue was crammed with all kinds of character sub-plots. I loved it! But the icing on the cake was, John Romita inked the issue. WOW!! I had such high hopes that maybe this new era would blow Conway's right out of the water.

And then Giacoia & Esposito inked #152. And MJ turned into a "typical B**** girlfriend". This was something she had never been before... that I knew of. It's been pointed out, this was how she treated Harry during the "drug" issues, co-plotted by Gil Kane, whose issues ALWAYS seem to be accompanied by nervous breakdowns and extreme violence and the like. But I see it differently... MJ was ALWAYS in love with Pete, from the day they met. It hurt her terribly to see him with Gwen. Harry was just marking time for her. She kept waiting for Pete to come to his senses. He never did. And then Gwen got KILLED. Finally, Pete was "available" again... except, he was in so much pain, he wasn't really anyone she could chase after right then. And I'm sure that's not how she imagined or hoped she'd finally get him. So, to me, MJ had never been that way toward Pete. And suddenly she was. I wanted to strangle Len for that.

Then Len did 2 issues in which the supporting cast didn't appear, or Spidey never took off the mask. It was as if Len forgot he wasn't still writing MARVEL TEAM-UP. Both issues were drawn by Sal Buscema, who had become the regular MTU guy at the time. I wondered... what the hell's going on with this book? The new guy hasn't even been in charge for 3 months and already it's falling apart. Sadly, although Len was quite capable of doing fun stories here and there, too much of his career, I noticed, consisted of him getting on a book, starting out like a rocket, then fizzling out in less than 6 months. In the long run, it seemed to me that all of Len's sub-plots were in support of only ONE single "big" story-- which he dragged out over 3 whole years. (The 3rd Green Goblin.)

As they used to say on the oldies stations, "Ahh, what memories, what memories!"

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As stated, Spectacular #1 was the monster story (in B&W with shading like the Warren books) and #2 was the Goblin story (in color) . I don’t have the originals anymore, but they were both reprinted in Marvel Masterworks The Amazing Spider-Man Volume 7. The presentation in MMW is B&W and color as they were originally. As for other reprints, According to Wikipedia,  #1(monster) was slightly tweaked and reprinted in color in ASM 116-118(?) and #2 (Goblin) was reprinted in a stand-alone “facsimile” comic in 2002. As was stated, #2 features Osborn regaining his memory and coming after Spidey as the Goblin. There is an innovation of a new pumpkin bomb which emits a psychedelic gas. This initially does a number on Spidey, but he manages to turn the tables and use it to reinstate the memory loss in Osborn.  So regaining his memory didn’t survive the single story. Obviously he regained it again some time down the road.



Allen Wayne Smith said:

I got the first black and white issue of Spectacular Spider-Man, and its color sequel, but no longer remember what's in them, as it's been a very long time since I've laid eyes on those issues.

ASM #116-118 must have been inspired by some of those 3rd season SPIDER-MAN cartoons that Ralph Bakshi & Gray Morrow knocked out to fill out the syndication package.  Almost exact redos, trying to pass themselves off as "sequels".

The most infamous episodes, of course, were the two that were remakes of the previous year's ROCKET ROBIN HOODs.

The only time this sort of thing made any sense (at least, to me) was when Craig Russell redid DR. STRANGE ANNUAL #1 as a graphic novel decades later.  At least in that case, he redrew the art and had new dialogue written as well.  It was virtually the exact same story.. except, the redo was about 10 TIMES BETTER.

Of course, the funny thing about that is, both Russell projects were more or less a redo of a 10-page Steve Ditko episode... (only Russell changed the names of the 2 sisters-- twice!)

Now that I think of it, didn't that B & W Spec Spidey have a strip in it by Romita called "Fury of the Femizons", or some such title?  With some very sexy Amazon like warrior women depicted by Romita, very glamourous looking.  Is that correct?

Richard Willis said:

As stated, Spectacular #1 was the monster story (in B&W with shading like the Warren books) and #2 was the Goblin story (in color) . I don’t have the originals anymore, but they were both reprinted in Marvel Masterworks The Amazing Spider-Man Volume 7. The presentation in MMW is B&W and color as they were originally. As for other reprints, According to Wikipedia,  #1(monster) was slightly tweaked and reprinted in color in ASM 116-118(?) and #2 (Goblin) was reprinted in a stand-alone “facsimile” comic in 2002. As was stated, #2 features Osborn regaining his memory and coming after Spidey as the Goblin. There is an innovation of a new pumpkin bomb which emits a psychedelic gas. This initially does a number on Spidey, but he manages to turn the tables and use it to reinstate the memory loss in Osborn.  So regaining his memory didn’t survive the single story. Obviously he regained it again some time down the road.



Allen Wayne Smith said:

I got the first black and white issue of Spectacular Spider-Man, and its color sequel, but no longer remember what's in them, as it's been a very long time since I've laid eyes on those issues.

That was in Savage Tales #1. The Femizons were later brought into Marvel continuity as the women of the future Thundra came from.

"Fury of the Femizons"

Close. That was in SAVAGE TALES #1 (May'71).  That was the Conan spin-off magazine that Martin Goodman cancelled after only 1 issue.  They finally had a 2nd issue dated Oct'73.

The "Femizon" story was tied in with FANTASTIC FOUR when Gerry Conway & Rich Buckler got around to telling the origin of Thundra in FF #151-153 (Oct'Dec'74).  She had been introduced by Roy Thomas & John Buscema in FF #129-130 (Dec'72-Jan'73).  Looking back, I can't shake the feeling that Thundra was one more of a growing number of instances where Roy referenced Captain Marvel (red outfit with lightning bolt) as he seems obsessed with the idea that CM was originally going to be called "Captain Thunder" (but the name was changed BEFORE publication).  I also think the character inspired Gerry Conway's Power Girl (super-strong woman with overbearing feminst chip on her shoulder) who in turn inspired Ms. Marvel (created by Roy, initially written by Gerry!).

Okay, thanks for the correction, guys.  As for the FF by Conway and Buckler, I haven't read much of the post Kirby FF, aside from some of the Simonson run and the Byrne run.  Conway/Buckler to me on the FF would just be wretched, unless someone here can point me to some good quality stories by them.

Henry R. Kujawa said:

"Fury of the Femizons"

Close. That was in SAVAGE TALES #1 (May'71).  That was the Conan spin-off magazine that Martin Goodman cancelled after only 1 issue.  They finally had a 2nd issue dated Oct'73.

The "Femizon" story was tied in with FANTASTIC FOUR when Gerry Conway & Rich Buckler got around to telling the origin of Thundra in FF #151-153 (Oct'Dec'74).  She had been introduced by Roy Thomas & John Buscema in FF #129-130 (Dec'72-Jan'73).  Looking back, I can't shake the feeling that Thundra was one more of a growing number of instances where Roy referenced Captain Marvel (red outfit with lightning bolt) as he seems obsessed with the idea that CM was originally going to be called "Captain Thunder" (but the name was changed BEFORE publication).  I also think the character inspired Gerry Conway's Power Girl (super-strong woman with overbearing feminst chip on her shoulder) who in turn inspired Ms. Marvel (created by Roy, initially written by Gerry!).

"Conway/Buckler to me on the FF would just be wretched, unless someone here can point me to some good quality stories by them."

I'm sure this was discussed in the FF thread (or some FF-related thread).

So as not to derail this thread, go here.

I have always thought Thundra was Marvel's answer to Big Barda.

Yes, filtered thru Roy's Golden Age obsession.

Barda, meanwhile, was an update of Wonder Woman filtered thru the mind of a "nice Jewish boy".

: )

I think Stern is good, but only when the artwork is consistent and takes the story seriously.  There are some Spec. Spider-Man that I find hard to read, but it's because the story is so affected by the artwork.  It takes a combination to make a comicbook.  In my book, Stern and Byrne rock when they work together.

I'm saying Jack created his own, "Jewish" version of a "Wonder Woman" type character. I've heard it suggested that Barda's personality was based on Roz. Can't say for sure. One thing I am sure of, visually, she was based on Lainie Kazan.

You know, having read multiple versions of "Wonder Woman" (note quotation marks), and having heard that in the last 15-20 years DC keeps trying to reinvent her, and can never, ever seem to get it right, and having come to the realization that the original, Golden Age WONDER WOMAN by Charles Moulton & Harry Peter was not only the BEST version EVER, but really, the ONLY ONE that ever really "worked", and the only one that worth reading... I'd say Jack's regular habit of creating his own characters (instead of doing other people's) is the way more comics creators should really go.  (DOWN with corporate-controlled characters!!!!!)   : )

I'm waiting for the day when both Marvel and DC go belly-up and make room for NEW things again.

I think I'm very clear. And I could do without all your sarcasm. If you disagree with me, that's fine, everyone's entitled to their opinions.  But between you and George Poague, it seems I'M not supposed to be allowed to have my own opinions.  I think you guys are wasting your time, and mine, AND the moderators'. If you don't like what I have to say, I suggest you ignore it, not go on and on an on making PERSONAL ATTACKS because you don't like what I'm saying.

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