To avoid further hijacking the "Movies I Have Seen Lately" thread, and because there seems to be some interest in men's attire, I've created this discussion to pursue it. (If I'm wrong abut the level of interest, this discussion can die on the vine harmlessly, with no offence to me.)
It's been only in the last five years or so that I've been something of a clothes horse. For nearly thirty years, my day-to-day wear was a uniform. But, when in civilian clothes, I was never one of the "t-shirt, blue jeans, and baseball cap" crowd. I was a bit more upscale than that, but otherwise, I never paid much attention to what I wore. The one exception was in my civilian suits. I'd always admired the look of the suit-dressed man of the 1930's, so, twenty-five years ago, I went to a tailor and showed him a men's wear advertisement from a 1930's magazine and directed him to make me two suits pattered after that. He did, and they fit wonderfully.
Since I retired from the Navy, I've taken more of an interest in my clothing. I frequent the various men's wear blogs on line (The Gentlemen's Gazette, being the best), and I've learnt a great deal about the details of men's clothing. The Good Mrs. Benson always said I should find a hobby, and as it turns out, clothing was it. I started by increasing my casual wear. Contemporary dress trousers pose a problem for me, because the current style is to have them hang from the hips, when trousers should properly come to the waist. Consequently, I went and had a half-dozen pair of dress trousers tailored to fit at my waist, along with adding pleats and cuffs. I was lucky with dress shirts. Van Heusen makes a classic dress shirt that happens to fit me perfectly, so I bought eight of those.
As far as suits, believe it or not, those two suits from twenty-five years ago still fit. (I weigh ten pounds less now than when I had them made.) However, my cargo has, shall we say, shifted in the last quarter-century, so I took them back to a tailor to have them altered to adjust. (He was impressed at how good a condition the suits were in after all this time.) Since then, I've had him tailor a third suit (because I needed a good summerweight suit)---aye, from that same 1930's men's-wear ad which I've kept all these years---and two sport coats.
Then,there were the accessories. I shifted from belts to suspenders. First, because they are more comfortable than a belt. Second, because they give you a straight silhouette, rather than the cinching at the middle created by a belt. There's a learning curve with suspenders, but it doesn't take long to master.
Then, as my pal Jeff pointed out, some sage fellow stated, "A man is never fully dressed without a hat." That presented a bit of a problem, though. It's impossible to really know how you'll look in a given hat until you try it on, and there were no brick-and-mortar haberdasheries near me from which I could select a fedora. There are plenty of sources of good dress fedoras on line. I became versed in the various details and styles of fedoras---snap brim, slouch brim, short brim, crown types, dents, bands, and curls. Still, I ordered and sent back seven or eight possibilities because, once I received them and tried them on, they didn't look quite right. Finally, I found an on-line hatter who was gracious enough to work with me, and I found the perfect fedora for me. Now, I've got two; one in steel-grey (to go with my black and grey suits) and one in brown (to go with my brown suit). I also have a black bowler, American style, from the 1930's that I purchased at a flea market.
I have an eye on another suit, a single-breasted suit (all of my others are double-breasted) with a double-breasted vest. In the 1931 Dracula, the character of Jonathan Harker (David Manners) wore a suit of that type in one scene. I'm putting it on hold for awhile, as I'm having trouble justifying it. My need for a suit doesn't come up all that often. Believe it or not, the Good Mrs. Benson doesn't like to dress to the nine's nearly as much as I do, so my occasions to wear a suit don't arise as often as I'd like. ("If you wear a suit, then I have to get dressed up.")
Now, on to your posts on the subject, over on the "Movies" discussion . . .
Mr. DeLuzio, you indicated that you did not replace your fedora because "The 2000s saw the style usurped by Angry Young Nerds." Sadly, there's truth in that. Your comment reminded me of this image I came across not too long ago . . .
That sort of consequence can be avoided. But, as I indicated, it can take a great deal of effort to obtain a genuine classic look in a fedora, and I don't fault you for just skipping on it.
Flatcaps have their own pinache and work just fine. They're just not for me. Nor is the ubiquitous baseball cap. Oh, I own quite a few Navy baseball caps---I even had one specially made. But they're not for social wear. I wear them when I'm outdoors in situations when work clothing is called for.
Jeff, old buddy, your post leads me to think that you are man after my own heart when it comes to men's wear. I certainly like your style sense. Wearing a bowtie (when not in formal or semi-formal attire) is a bold move these days, and I bet you pull off the look just fine. I like the idea of an ascot. I considered it for myself, but I don't think they would work with my size and build. I do appreciate the way they fit that middle ground between going open collar and wearing a necktie.
I didn't really notice before I turned my attention to clothing, but it's striking how poorly most men dress to-day. And I'm not talking about just on the street, in day-to-day life. Last year, the GMB and I went out to an upscale, five-star restaurant for our anniversary (one of the few occasions when she didn't mind going all out in her appearance). During dinner, I happened to notice the people at a near-by four-top---two couples. The ladies were dressed to the nines. Cocktail dresses, nothing expensive, but certainly stylish; their hair elegantly coiffed. The guys were a different story. One of them wore a plaid flannel shirt and blue jeans; the other was "resplendant" in his blue jeans, "dress" t-shirt, and baseball cap. Both of them had beard stubble; I couldn't tell if they were following the fashion of the time or simply hadn't bothered to shave before going out.
Setting aside all the excuses some men proclaim for not dressing well, I couldn't help but think shouldn't those fellows have shown their ladies the respect of going to as much trouble in their appearances for the occasion as the gals did?
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I had a similar experience this past NYE. Tracy and I met another couple at a relatively upscale restaurant. For this occasion I wore an ascot rather than a traditional tie, but there were other men there wearing ball caps and shorts.
I suspect that I may be on to a new development in how our American society dresses.
About seven weeks ago, just before I subjected myself to my other knee replacement, the Good Mrs. Benson and I decided to go out to an upscale restaurant for a night out. It was one of our favourite places, and we hadn't been there in a while. The venue called for a suit, but I had had a new sportcoat recently tailored and I was dying to try it out, so I dumbed down my attire and wore the sportcoat (royal blue sharkskin) with a tie, grey slacks, and grey suade Chelsea boots. The GMB, of course, dressed to the nines.
After we were seated, we looked around the restaurant, and as to be expected, no other male was dressed to my level. There were some guys in dress shirts and nice slacks, but it wasn't difficult to pick out blue jeans, t-shirts, and ball caps. This was not a surprise.
But something else struck me. On previous occasions, the underdressed men had stuck out in particular because their ladies had gone all out: newly coiffed hair, elegant gowns, glimpses of jewelry. But on that night, in that place, I observed that this was not the case with the women diners. They were not as casually dressed as the men accompanying them, but they were far from dressed all out. I saw a lot of casual blouses, and slacks or dressy jeans. The ladies looked nice but not to the level that one would expect for such a venue.
I'm wondering if we are seeing a shift in the attitudes of the women. Certainly, they must be getting tired of dressing all out for events, only to find their men have merely put on the first thing they laid their hands on. I don't blame them for that. And, perhaps, they're starting to scale back on their own appearances.
In my efforts to upgrade my own dress, I've paid more attention to how men dress, particularly in what passes for a proper suit these days. I'll admit, I'm probably too critical.
I recently had three white dress shirts tailored, in order to get the spearpoint-type collars which fit the styles of the '30's and '40's. (You can buy this type of shirt on line from vintage haberdasheries, but their spearpoint collars are always too extreme. Plus, you can't guarantee the shirt will fit properly in all respects when you buy on line.) Since then, I've been paying more attentions to the collars and neckwear of men wearing suits, both in real life (hard to find) and on television---such folks as newscasters and actors in series whose parts call for them to wear suits. And I've noticed a couple of strange things.
First, I've noticed that most men in suits wear their ties looser. Now, I'm not talking about something like the way Doug Phillips always loosened his necktie within the first five minutes of almost every episode of The Time Tunnel. No, the type of wear that I'm talking about is that the man has his tie cinched, but the knot is very loose. In some cases, one could fit two fingers between the knot and the bottom blade of his tie. I'd swear that, in many cases, it appears like the man didn't know how to tie a necktie and just did the best he could. It just looks sloppy.
Second, I've noticed a strange practise of men wearing tie clasps---those who are wearing tie clasps---an inch or two down from the knot. I don't get this. Wearing it that high defeats the purpose of a tie clasp. The point of a tie clasp is to keep the tie in place when the man wears his suit jacket open or takes it off. So, one wears the clasp low on the tie, an inch or two from the bottom point of the front blade. The most frequent need for this is when a man is eating. The tie clasp keeps the tie from dangling into the food on his plate. If he wears his tie clasp high up on the tie, as I'm seeing so often now, his tie is still going to spill forward into his food when he dines. So, why wear it, then?
Most important, the proper wear of a tie clasp keeps men from that ridiculous look that I've seen often in restaurants---where they sit with their ties slung over their shoulders. I pointed that out to the Good Mrs. Benson while dining out at lunch one day.
"They do that so their ties don't fall into their food," she pointed out.
"You know, dear," I replied, "I think they've invented something to keep that from happening."
I was out and about on this Father's Day, and as I was walking in a subway station when someone called out to me just to say "Your hat is amazing!"
From Japan Daily:
"In 2026, Tokyo's Metropolitan Government has taken that initiative significantly further. Governor Yuriko Koike officially updated the Cool Biz dress code this month to permit government staff to wear shorts and sneakers to the office — items previously considered entirely inappropriate in public sector workplaces. Local media captured images of male bureaucrats in polo shirts and shorts, marking a visible cultural shift.
Eddie Munster, Dick Grayson, and Angus Young were fashion-forward, cleary.
I have read how Japan - as is true of so many places - is having an exceptionally hot summer, so I can certainly understand wanting to allow for cooler clotghing, even for government employees. However - and maybe it's me - but shorts with a suit jacket and tie screams "elite kindergarten uniform" to me, and still not that much more comfortable than a full-blown suit. To my mind, come up with an acceptable summer "look" that does away with the jacket and tie.
I couldn't agree more, Baron. A suit with short pants is such a ridiculous look, it screams the very image that Jeff posted. It's juvenile, and certainly not the look of authority that a businessman would want to project.
Then, again, I don't understand the modern style of conventional suits, either. At least, they've gotten away from the "skinny" look, but they're still wearing the trousers too low, on the hips, rather than the at the waist, and the neckties too long. So that the tip of the tie and the shirt can be seen between the quarters of the suit coat. It makes a man look like his suit coat shrunk in the wash. Compare that with a single-breasted suit worn by Cary Grant in the 1950's, for example in the film North by Northwest. His trousers are at waist height and, though, unseen, his tie comes to his belt buckle, so nothing shows between the quarters of this suit coat. This presents a smooth, unbroken appearance.
I took that deviation because I suspect, if it hasn't happened already, that the short-pants suit will become the norm, at least during the summer, in Japan, despite how juvenile it looks. It goes to my mystification over the fact that fashion always seems to trump style. In other words, men care more about wearing the same thing everyone else is, rather than what looks good.
The Good Mrs. Benson regularly complains when I dress more stylish than she thinks the occasion calls for. (I lean toward wearing a suit, or at least a sport coat and tie, on the same occasions that men used to do sixty years ago.) She has two arguments, one for which I will compromise sometimes ("If you get dressed up, then I have to, too.") But her other argument makes no sense to me: "Nobody else there will be wearing a suit." I usually respond, "We're not in high school anymore, darling---we don't have to dress like the cool kids do."
I adhere to my own standard, not that of all of the baseball-cap-and-t-shirt-wearing men. It's not an attitude of throwing it in other men's faces; it's just a matter of dressing how I think I should, and I'm not bothered if it runs against the herd. I'm surprised that all people don't think that way, and it's why I'm befuddled by people's slavish devotion to "what's in fashion".
As far as the summers go, it gets rather hot in the southeastern U.S., so I have one suit made of the lightest super 130's worsted wool. In the summer months, it's light as a feather but still has enough weight to carry a drape. I'm completely comfortable in it in temperatures up to the early 90's. There are other suit fabrics that are perfect for summer, such as linen or cotton.
Now, I'll allow that the current extreme temperatures---it was over 100 degrees here yesterday---that even a light suit is daunting. But I think, as you suggested, Baron, that a more appealable compromise is to simply forgo the suit coat and a short-sleeve dress shirt would be acceptable. (I'm not sure I go along with dispensing with the necktie.) It's certainly more presentable than looking like the Beaver on his way to parochial school.
In other words, men care more about wearing the same thing everyone else is, rather than what looks good.
I've read that that is a big thing over in Japan, even to the extent that radical "non-conformist" groups tend to dress a certain way, effectively having "non-conformist uniforms".
Folks in the men's wear field list three major reasons why men don't dress well, anymore. One of those reasons is that they don't want to look different from everybody else. The fear of standing out really takes hold of both men and women. No wonder the fashion designers have a stranglehold on the public.
I remember as a teen and young adult, the fact that preferred the grooming and clothing styles of the '30's and '40's always bothered my father. I refused to let my hair grow (I was probably the only youngster in America telling his father to get a haircut) or wear anything in those atrocious men's wear styles of the 1970's (the absolute worst men's fashion period ever). And, for some reason, Dad found fault with that. He kept insisting that I had to "fit in".
I've spent some time in Japan, so I have a little understanding of its culture. Aye, I can believe the imperative to dress to conform is even stronger there. Conformity in all aspects of societal interaction is much higher than it is over here. So, I guess the short-pants-suit business is beginning to take off in Tokyo.
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