Buffy the Vampire Slayer (Seasons Six through "Eight")

[Jeff of Earth-J]

This is a continuation of the Buffy the Vampire Slayer thread I started over on the “old board” last April. Alan and Mike convinced me that the show’s move from the WB to the UPN and the start of season six is a logical time to move this discussion to the board’s new home. For those of you who might be new to the discussion, I am in the process of watching this series, start to finish, for the first time. I don’t provide much in the way of recap because I’m working under the assumption that most of you reading this thread have at least a passing familiarity with the series. The ground rules of this discussion are simple: I can (and will) spoil anything I want to, but you can’t spoil anything I haven’t seen yet. Ready? Okay, let’s begin.

SEASON SIX: EPISODES 1/2: “BARGAINING—PARTS 1/2”

I actually don’t have much to say about the two-part season opener. Most of it was spent resetting Buffy’s apparent death at the end of season five. Shouldn’t her death have triggered a new Slayer to have been called up? Judging from the opening credits it looks as if Giles is going to be out of the cast on a permanent (or at least semi-permanent) basis. I’m really enjoying the development of the “relationship” between Buffy and Spike thoughout last season and into this one. Apparently even vampires are subject to classical conditioning!

[Jeff of Earth-J]

SEASON EIGHT: ISSUE #20: “AFTER THESE MESSAGES…WE’LL BE RIGHT BACK”

As I mentioned before, the BS8 tpbs don’t have any editorial material, but the Fray tpb did. The introduction was written by Jeph Loeb and in it he spoke optimistically about Buffy: The Animated Series, which I’ve seen on YouTube but not on my tube. I wonder if this issue, written by Loeb and drawn in an “animation” style is intended in some small way to bring that project to fruition? I imagine (as with the dream sequences on television) there’s more to the story than appears on the surface, but I’m trying to convince myself I didn’t read the major spoiler about Cordelia I think I did.

[Figserello]

I totally got what Loeb said about hating Joss Whedon in his intro.

I finished Fray, and just thought "BA$%@^&!".

Yeah, sure he's a great tv/film writer/director/producer/songsmith and all that, but did he have to be such a great comics writer too?

Every day, in every way I feel more and more inadequate!

... which I’ve seen on YouTube but not on my tube

Me likey!

This is a great little issue though. I don't know about making the animated series more likely. Some comics writers sincerely believe that stuff they put in comics affect the way the world turns out, so maybe there's a bit of sympathetic magic in there. It does show that it's still close to Loeb's heart.

Don't animated series need only about a series or two in the can to be successfully syndicated? Surely they could manage that? Buffy in High School would seem to have everything that a series would need, including brand recognition. Wouldn't the whole Twilight palaver make such a series tempting to producers again?

I'll have to read it again, but this issue, though charming, felt very slight to me. Sure Buffy is often granted prophetic insightful dreams, but this one just felt like a 'Welsh rarebit' dream. It felt real while it was going on, but seemed inconsequential to her waking life.

It also highlighted a point I made a few posts up, that the series now feels quite tired and the weight of responsibility which Buffy feels weighs down the whole series. This issue's lightness of touch is in contrast to the rest of S8. Buffy was always a tough balancing act between the light and the dark, and the early seasons managed it, no matter how serious things became.

Now, the players have become aware that no matter how hard they fight and how many great battles they win, the war will never stop. In Fray, as you pointed out, we see that all Buffy's struggles didn't prevent this dystopic future and in Time of Your Life, our heroes discover this and more dispiriting things besides.

Whedon's MO denies anyone a happy ending and I think it's starting to get to me.

(It's lucky for the world that I am not the Slayer, as I would have packed it in and gone on holiday long ago... :-P)

[Alan M.]

I’m trying to convince myself I didn’t read the major spoiler about Cordelia I think I did.

I don't know what spoiler you may or may not have read, but you were encouraged to watch Angel, y'know. :P

[Jeff of Earth-J]

When I spoke of issue #20 insome small way bringing the animated project to fruition, I didn't mean jumpstarting the TV project; I meant getting it out of his system by doing and "animation style" comic book because the TV project fell through.

I haven't yet started to watch Angel (I'll let y'all know when I do); I was encouraged to record Angel. As a matter of fact, Tracy and I have begun working our way through Firefly for the second time. It's funny... some episodes I remember very well and others I barely recall at all, but I'm picking more up out of each of them the second time though.

[Jeff of Earth-J]

When I get toward the end of a reading project and/or discussion I am enjoying my natural tendency is to slow dow in order to “make it last.” The stories contained in BS8 tpb5 (#21-25, plus) are all single-issue tales so I don’t feel compelled to read a four-issue “episode” in a single night.

SEASON EIGHT: ISSUE #21: “HARMONIC DIVERGENCE”

This one almost breaks my my willing suspension of disbelief in that Harmony has become a “celebrity vampire” starring in her own reality show in which the Slayers are cast as the villains. Society in general in the Buffyverse has always turned a blind eye to the existence of the paranormal, but showcasing a vampire on TV is almost too much to believe. The premise barely squeaks by under the premise that a vampire can feed without killing. OTOH, a neo-Slayer is apparently killed on nationwide TV.

None of the stories in this sequence are written by Joss Whedon himself, although they are all written by BtVS television show writers. According to the tpb back cover copy, “Predators and Prey collects a series of one-shots establishing the new world order—where vampires reign supreme and Slayers are public enemy number one.”

[Alan M.]

I'm pretty much with you on that one, Jeff. For me, a status quo where vampires are known and accepted takes the series a little too far from being recognizably in my "real world."

Still, I trust Joss, so I'm willing to roll with this changed status and see where he's taking it.

[Figserello]

This is one of the concepts that I was complaining about earlier, not wanting to mention it til you got to it.

My big problem with it is that here we have a bunch of TV writers telling us that society's century- (millenia?) long fear of vampires, specifically and the Alien/Other/Death/the pointy-toothed/whatever in general can be turned around by a TV programme.

So that's annoying...

And then there is the huge culture of denial in BTVS, so people would need a long time to actually believe that vampires and slayers exist, never mind pick a side.

And since when did we humans all come down on one side of an argument?

It just all seems so forced. It only works if you don't really take Buffy's world seriously, which was never what the Buffyverse was about.

This is also what I was referring to when I said that Fray was more believable within its own fictional conceits...

[Ana Canino-Fluit (Anacoqui- mod)]

But it isn't just that one tv show...
[Slightly Spoilerish references and allusions to events in Angel to follow]







The Angel TV show showed that in the mayor cities there was a great deal less denial and whole lot more acceptance of the supernatural presence. And Season 8 is set in a world where Sunnydale has been destroyed and LA has been beset by several large scale supernatural events (and one planetary one).

So Joss has been chipping away at the denial for a long time and Harmony's show is just one more piece of straw.

And isn't there a huge vampire fad in our current world...how hard is it to accept that in the Buffy world a good deal of people have gotten caught up in while maybe still not letting go of some of their denial, since now they sit around thinking of Vampires as something that happens on reality TV and so not strictly for real...

So to me, Season 8's storyline isn't inconsistent to the world developed in Angel and where Lorne is has Las Vegas act...

Figserello said:

This is one of the concepts that I was complaining about earlier, not wanting to mention it til you got to it.
My big problem with it is that here we have a bunch of TV writers telling us that society's century- (millenia?) long fear of vampires, specifically and the Alien/Other/Death/the pointy-toothed/whatever in general can be turned around by a TV programme. So that's annoying... And then there is the huge culture of denial in BTVS, so people would need a long time to actually believe that vampires and slayers exist, never mind pick a side.

And since when did we humans all come down on one side of an argument?

It just all seems so forced. It only works if you don't really take Buffy's world seriously, which was never what the Buffyverse was about.

This is also what I was referring to when I said that Fray was more believable within its own fictional conceits...

[Figserello]

Well, I haven't seen the final season of Angel yet...

There are some (not a million miles away) who'd argue that its up to this series I'm reading now to fill in all of that, but to be fair, I'm not one of them.

If a bit more ground work has been laid in the wider Buffyverse than we've seen in S8 then fair enough.

Still annoys me that its TV that has made this big difference though. TV isn't the force it once was.

[Ana Canino-Fluit (Anacoqui- mod)]

I agree with you about TV, but Celebrity culture, tabloid culture is still plenty powerful, and it routinely makes heroes out of people who aren't in any way good or worthy, and are famous for no better reason than they are rich and had a sex tape released.

And S8 has touched on how the Slayers have created their own bad publicity. Think about it, thousands of girls all around the world now have super powers...not all of them are with Buffy. Many are still out there and many are like Faith used to be and they haven't all used their power well. Additionally Buffy herself did lead that Bank Robbery and that video is out there.

So Harmony's show is just one piece of a much larger puzzle.

and I didn't even mention how the Initiative is proof that the denial was fading, along with the fact that a lot of the denial in Sunnydale was because of Mayor's power of over the city.

Figserello said:

Well, I haven't seen the final season of Angel yet...
There are some (not a million miles away) who'd argue that its up to this series I'm reading now to fill in all of that, but to be fair, I'm not one of them.
If a bit more ground work has been laid in the wider Buffyverse than we've seen in S8 then fair enough.

Still annoys me that its TV that has made this big difference though. TV isn't the force it once was.

[Jeff of Earth-J]

This is an interesting discussion about the post-TV direction of the story. I see (and agree with) all the points raised on both sides of the issue. You know me, if I had a preference I’d state it, but I’m honestly undecided. I liked the last episode of the TV show as a series finale, but it was such a game-changer that who’s to say society wouldn’t have evolved along the lines shown in the BS8 comic book? Joss Whedon says it does, so, for now, that’s good enough for me.

SEASON EIGHT: ISSUE #22: “SWELL”

The “Swell” of the title refers to “Vampy Cats,” little colony demons masquerading as the new stuffed toy fad. Satsu and Kennedy’s (non-sexual) interaction adds a coda to Buufy’s lesbian dalliance with Satsu, while in the background, the popularity of vampires continues to grow. The main action of this story takes place in Japan with lots of little in-jokey references to Japanese pop culture, such as the ship taken over by the Swell is named Daikaiju.

SEASON EIGHT: ISSUE #23: “PREDATORS AND PREY”

This is sort of a “geek bonding” issue between Buffy and Andrew as they pursue Simone’s group of rogue Slayers. I’ve got to admit, even I don’t know what Andrew’s talking about half of the time.

[Jeff of Earth-J]

SEASON EIGHT: ISSUE #24: “SAFE”

Like all the stories in this collection, another example of life under the new status quo. Faith and Giles are featured and a new Slayer, Courtney, is introduced. There are a certain number of neo-Slayers who reject their heritage; in effect, they “choose not to be Chosen.” The European town of Hanselstadt is being protected from vampires by a Slayer-killing demon, and Giles, Faith and Courtney are lured into the trap.

A decent little one-off adventure “where vampires reign supreme and Slayers are public enemy number one.”