As Jeff of Earth-J and others are fond of saying, we live in a Golden Age of Reprints. We have Masterworks and Archives, Showcases and Essentials, Omnibuses and Absolute Editions, not to mentions your everday TPBs and hardcovers that collect storylines of both recent and older vintage.
Take for instance, one of my favorite titles, Fantastic Four. The full color Masterworks go up to issue 141 and Annuals 1-6, and the black and white Essentials cover up to issue 183, and the Annuals up to 11. There are even two Omnibus Editions that have up to issue 60. You have trade paperbacks that reprint the entire John Byrne run, the Walter Simonson run, the issues drawn by George Perez in the 1970s and more. Virtually every issue since the year 2000, starting with the Carlos Pacheco run, is in TPB.
It wasn't always this way. When I began collecting in 1979, options were limited, as they were for everything in those days: the Lee and Kirby originals were pricy even then, and as far as reprints went, Marvel only opened the vault a bit. In those days the FF was reprinted in Marvel's Greatest Comics, and occasionally in the oversized Marvel Treasury Edition. My first MGC was #86, reprinting FF 106, and I don't remember anything about it besides that great four panel cover (hey, that cover sold itself to me!); but I clearly and fondly remember the next one I bought, MGC 92, which reprinted FF 112, "Battle of the Behemoths" pitting a not quite in his right mind Thing versus the Hulk. I recently re-read it, and I'll say this: I love that cover, the art is great, but the story is only so-so at best. It's a masterpiece compared to what comes next, but I'll save that for later. My first MTE was a reprint of FF 120-123, a four part Galactus story that 10 year old me loved, but I haven't re-read in years and I wonder if it holds up today. It's not a story that gets discussed much on the web, although that is the case for a lot of post-Kirby / pre-Byrne FF, not much love for FF 103-231, I guess.
I have a lot I want to say about this topic, so I'll break it up at this point ... anyone who wishes to chime in at any point, please do!
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...Wasn't that Hulk post-Kirby story post-#112 ??? My own long line on the 5th volume of Essentials covering the switch from Kirby to the STITCH regime is down there somewhere ! :-).........
Nope, definitely #112. Essential FF Vol 5 stops at #110.
BTW, Emerkeith, your thread and the discussion that ensued, in part inspired this thread, so thanks!
As I said, I started collected in 1979. It blew my mind that not only could I read current stuff, but there were all these reprint titles as well: Marvel Super Action (Avengers), Marvel Super Heroes (Hulk), Marvel Tales (Spider-Man), Fantasy Masterpieces (Silver Surfer), Tales to Astonish (Sub-Mariner), and Amazing Adventures (X-Men). And of course, Marvel's Greatest Comics, reprinting Fantastic Four. There was also Marvel Treasury Edition, an oversized and much more random reprint title.
Here's what I didn't know: a lot, actually. I didn't know that MGC had been cancelled at #82, the March '79 issue (ironically, Kirby's last FF issue) and revived only months later, along with Marvel Super Action for a December '79 cover date, the same cover date as the first issues of Fantasy Masterpieces, Amazing Adventures, and Tales to Astonish.
(aside: I'm sure there's a story there, MGC, MSA, and Marvel Triple Action all cancelled in early '79; MGC and MSA revived - although MSA stopped reprinting Captain America and picked up Avengers where MTA left off - and 3 new reprints all begin with Dec '79. Anyone know?)
I didn't know that MGC had begun as Marvel Collectors Item Classics, reprinting stories from various titles before going FF only. Even after I learned that, I didn't know Marvel was so - I don't know, economical? - about reprints that the same issue rarely was reprinted more than once. Here's how it went:
MCIC 1-22 (chronologically) reprinted FF 2-4, 7-9, 13, 10, 14-18, 20-24, 27-30, and then becomes Marvel's Greatest Comics with issue #23. MGC 23-28 reprints FF 31-36. Then for MGC 29-34, 2 FF issues were reprinted in each. MGC 29 reprinted FF 12 (which hadn't been reprinted before) and FF 31 (which had just been reprinted in MGC 23, 14 months prior). MGC 30 reprinted FF 37 & 38, MGC 31 - FF 39 & 40, MGC 32 - FF 41 & 42, MGC 33 - FF 44 & 45, MGC 34 - FF 46 & 47. With #35, MGC becomes a regular sized comic, reprinted one issue of FF; MGC 35-96 reprints FF 48-54, 56, 61-93, 95-100, & 102-116.
So what happened to FF 1, 5, 6, 11, 19, 25, 26, 43, 55, 57-60, 94, and 101? Well ......
I used the word "economical" to describe how Marvel handled reprints of the FF. There's probably a better word to describe how Marvel rarely reprinted the same FF story more than once, from FF Annual 1 in 1963 (first time Marvel reprinted an FF story, afaik) to the cancellation of MGC in 1981. Sometimes I think "strange" describes it best.
Take FF #1. Cover date Nov '61. The kickoff of modern Marvel. Definitely a good choice to reprint in FF Annual 1 (1963), as they did. So when it's decided to reprint FF in order, in the new title, Marvel Collectors' Item Classics, they start with FF #2. I'm only guessing the logic here was, well, we already reprinted #1, so we start with #2. If that's the thinking, it explains why MCIC skips FF 5 (reprinted in FF Annual 2-1964), 6 and 11 (FF Annual 3-1965). But it sets a disappointing precedent, where issues are skipped over repeatedly if previously reprinted elsewhere, and because MGC didn't have a lettercol, this is done pretty much without explanation.
To me, it's strange that an issue as important as FF 1 was only reprinted twice prior to the launch of Masterworks in 1987, and one of those was in an Annual that itself became quite a valuable comic. For the record, the other time was in FF Annual 9, in 1971. Also, I believe there were color digests in the late 70s or early 80s that reprinted the first six FF issues (and there may have been more than one volume); I know there were three digests for Amazing Spider-Man. All in all, when I began collecting comics in 1979, tracking down even a reprint of FF 1 wasn't easy, for close to ten years.
So, if you're keeping score at home, MCIC skips FF 1, reprints 2-4, skips 5 & 6, reprints 7-9, and then reprints ... FF 13, and then FF 10?
Umm, what?
Again, best guess, here goes. By now, it's 1967. Combine my guess that there's a policy not to reprint an issue that already had been with Stan's famous faulty memory and a now very busy Bullpen that doesn't have anyone who would catch things like this, and there's confusion about FF 10-12 (which had come out in late 1962 or so) being previously reprinted. So the reprint of 9 is followed by the reprint of 13, and 10 is reprinted next because they realized it hadn't been before. The reprint of 14 comes next because FF 11 had been reprinted, but someone must have thought 12 had been reprinted because it was skipped over completely. Eventually, FF 12 would get reprinted in MGC 29, in 1970, completely out of sequence, combined with FF 31 (which itself had been reprinted one year earlier in MGC 23). Just my theory.
FF 19 gets reprinted in a one shot in 1967 called America's Best TV Comics, which appears to be a promo for ABC's Saturday morning lineup that year; and so, it is skipped over in 1968 in MCIC. That makes some sense, as the one shot is cover dated Nov '67 and MCIC 14 is Apr '68 - the issue FF 19 would have otherwise appeared in. FF 19 would also get reprinted in Giant Size Avengers 2 in 1974, making it one of the few FF issues to be reprinted twice prior to Masterworks, and also reprinted outside the main FF reprint title or an FF Annual. Again, strange.
The classic two parter of FF 25 and 26 was reprinted in FF Annual 4 in 1966 and is skipped by MCIC when its turn would have come up in 1968 (MCIC 18 reprints FF 24, and 19 reprints 27). With issue #23, the name of MCIC changes to Marvel's Greatest Comics, but the format remains the same - a 64 page all reprint title starring the FF and featuring others. Regular size Marvels were 32 pages for 15 cents at this time, so MGC was still a bargain if you ask me.
FF 43 would be the next FF issue MGC would skip over. I want to discuss a few other things first (and hopefully some of youse guys will join in the conversation too!)
This is an incredible job of documenting and researching the reprint pattern for the FF.
I'd like to add that I didn't realize they had skipped around so much, not owning nor having read the original FF run prior to issue #41. (Exception: There were a sequence of every third FF from #18 through #39 that I scored along with a run from #44-50.)
I don't understand how in the world they could possibly have skipped #43, considering that it wraps up the 3 part Frightful Four arc. The story just isn't complete without it, and it marks a great end point, considering the terrific six part Inhumans and Galactus trilogy starts with #44...
Yes, you're right about the Hulk-Avengers cross-over from #25-26 appearing in FF Annual #4. As I had missed that issue on the stands by only a month or so, (not understanding what an Annual was) I also missed the conclusion to that team-up...and never knew what the Avengers did when they "took over in #26."
As I have said before, when Marvel started redrawing the covers for MGC instead of reprinted the Kirby covers from #35-42, I thought they were terrible...with word balloons, and poorly composed artwork. Please tell me that those covers weren't Kirby work. I know they weren't the original artwork, reprinted or retouched.
I said I would discuss a few other things first, but just to set your mind at ease, Kirk, here goes: they didn't skip over #43. As I noted above, Marvel's Greatest Comics changed from featuring an FF reprint and various others to featuring 2 FF reprints with issue #29. In between MGC 32 (reprints FF 41 & 42) and 33 (FF 44 & 45), Marvel released FF Annual (or "King Sized Special", going by the cover) #9, reprinting FF 43 and Annual 3 (Reed and Sue's wedding). That's the correct chronological order. It's also mildly interesting to me that none of the FF Annuals were reprinted in MCIC or MGC. Although Annual 3 can stand on its own, I don't think any of the other Annuals had a regular issue lead directly into it, as FF 43 did.
At some point, it was decided that Marvel Collectors' Item Classics would be renamed Marvel's Greatest Comics without changing the format in any way. Same size, same features, same publishing frequency.
So why the name change? Anyone know?
Yeah, I've got a pretty good guess.
When MCIC began, it was basically a 25 cent squarebound book that reprinted three full stories (3 separate heroes or titles, plus about half of the Incredible Hulk issue)(There were only six issues of the Incredible Hulk, and I don't recall if each book had two adventures or only one with multiple "chapters".) But the point is that by about issue 12 or 16, MCIC had run out of Hulk stories to feature. and, some of the other stories that were being reprinted, Iron Man and Dr. Strange for instance, we expanding page length...and so, as they were running out of pages, and the number of ad pages expanded, the original concept "marvel collector itemS classics" wasn't as effective in describing them or bringing new kids into the fold.
As the major lead title reprinted was the FF, and the masthead claimed "The Worlds Greatest Comic Manazine", it makes sense that they cast about for a sutable title, and "Marvels Greatest Comic" rolls off the tounge better than MCIC.
Does this make sense?
Plus, as I look at the covers over in the Grand Comics Data Base, it's pretty obvious that except for FF #44, 42, the series redrew the covers for FF #35-36-37-40-41-46-54 instead of sticking with Jack Kirby's original artwork.
Does anyone know why? (I could imagine someone thought they might be kidding someone into thinking that this was a new book, a new adventure, but you can't alter the interiors enough to fool an older fan. So for about two years, some "new covers" were drawn up to sell MCG. Yuck! They're awful covers! The only one or two that appeal to me are the redrawn cover representing FF #51 and #53. Otherwise, I think they are dreadful. (Of course, any redrawing representing FF#50 HAS to be better than the pin-up art that passed for a cover originally!)
John Dunbar said:
Sounds good to me!
Kirk G said:
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