Marvel Legacy Spoiler Thread

[Detective 445]

I wanted to post a few thoughts on this one-shot book without sprinkling too many spoilers in other threads.  I don't think I'll have the energy to track this "event" the way I did with Secret Empire though. In any case:

Marvel Legacy #1

I can't really fault Marvel for wanting to do this. They are in a bit of a slump and it seems like a no-brainer to try and recapture some of what the older readers say they want.  At the same time it seems to me that what readers say they want or think they want doesn't always equate with what they are actually willing to buy or read. 

Most of the art here looks great and Jason Aaron does his usual solid job with the writing.  However, this reads a little bit like a hybrid of DC's Rebirth and Metal books. We start off by learning that there is a secret history of the Marvel U involving caveman era super heroes and celestials. How can this be? Anyone who follows Marvel continuity knows it's not possible. Stay tuned..

The rest of the issue mostly sets up scenarios by which various dead heroes are returning. They are, of course, the iconic older heroes that Marvel has largely been ignoring.  And we see what appears to be a new direction for Wakanda and a hint at a Fantastic Four reunion.  Again, how is this possible? What's the mechanism?

In a way, this story is a sort of sequel to the Secret Wars series. The continuity that was created by Reed Richards at the end of Secret Wars appears to have been manipulated once again. This time by Valeria Richards.  Why does she need prehistoric super heroes, Celestials and Infinity Stones to be a part of this? Not clear yet. Apparently she wants everything to be "ridiculous" and "magical."   It all sounds a bit too derivative of the stuff we saw in the Rebirth comic if you ask me.

I'm not sure what I'll actually buy yet. I'll probably mostly just stick with the stuff I already follow. But something like a new Marvel Two-In-One comic does ring the nostalgia bell a little bit.

What about tie-ins you ask?

[Captain Comics]

They did it over at DC, too, with "forgotten" Justice Leaguers Tomorrow Woman and Triumph.

Incidentally, I wrote a column about Marvel and Legacy. Some have already found it. I'm curious to hear if y'all agree or disagree with my take on current events.

[Detective 445]

Just read Avengers 672.

Despite the legacy numbering, it seems to be a pre-Legacy story. It features a crossover between the Avengers and the Champions but there is a brief Avengers history lesson at the end that appears to reference the Avengers continuity that we are already familiar with. No Voyager or other anomlies as near as I can tell. Color me confused. 

[Ronald Morgan]

Sounds like they're going to take their time explaining why it's part of Legacy.

53 titles? Way too many.

Dr. Strange#381? Did they combine all his old titles together?

[Detective 445]

Ronald Morgan said:

Sounds like they're going to take their time explaining why it's part of Legacy.

53 titles? Way too many.

Dr. Strange#381? Did they combine all his old titles together?

They must be including Strange Tales 1-167.

It also appears that Black Panther is getting some issues from the period where he was the title character in Daredevil. So I assume Daredevil doesn't get credit for those issues in terms of his own Legacy numbering.

[Ronald Morgan]

How long did his 70s title last? That would add some. But why isn't Marvel Two In One past #100?

[Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod)]

I looked at this week's issue of Iron First, and the cover dress was confusing as all get out. 

First, there's the inherent confusion of it being a jumping on point, but also issue 73. Despite the number, there should be a big 1 somewhere on the cover, just to let readers know this is the first legacy issue. Marvel did this well with Marvel All New Now, or whatever it was called.

Second, the name of the story (at the top of the cover) is "Sabretooth: Round Two." I think this is the first time Sabretooth fought Iron Fist since becoming an X-villain, even though he originated in Iron Fist's title in the 70s. But Round Two makes me look for Round One -- which isn't anywhere to be seen. 

Finally, the same strip that says "Sabertooth: Round Two" also says "Part 1." So there IS a number one on the book, but it's the third-biggest number on the cover.

That's not what I'd consider new-reader friendly.

[Captain Comics]

Detective 445: No Voyager or other anomalies as near as I can tell. Color me confused.

Actually, I saw a couple of things in Avengers #672 that I think are probably Legacy-related. One is that Hercules shows up with his mace, and then notices that it's gone. And he notices the absence and tells us about it, so he remembers a previous reality and we're supposed to notice that he does. Second, Wasp is facing the meteor, and suddenly it's gone. We see this, too. And then it's back. The story tells us nobody else saw that, but we saw that. The implication to me is that reality is undergoing flux.

BTW, I'd like to say without encouraging the Negative Nancies on the board that the way these characters attacked the meteor was, uh, kinda stupid. Cyclops blasting Hulk and Hercules at it to pound at it is irrelevant -- their blows are only as powerful as what they can push against, which is Cyclops' force beams. See: Isaac Newton. So it was only the force beams at work here. The two of them could have stayed home and watched TV. That's basic physics, which many comics writers don't seem to grasp very well.

Also: Wasp shrinking things wouldn't work. The material she shrank would still have the same mass, and moreover, the same inertia. She would turn a lot of big bullets into smaller bullets, but nothing else would change.

(Yes, I know, it's comics, and the damn meteor came out of nowhere against the laws of man and nature, so why am I carrying on about logic? Because of story rules. The meteor appearing was the "magic" in the scene; everything else had to work according to existing physical rules for us to care. That's storytelling 101.)

Also, new fact: Vision can't go immaterial while projecting his heat beams. This is news to me, and I've been reading about the character since 1967. And all I know about his heat beams is that they are an expulsion of the energy he absorbs from the sun (like Superman), and even though the described mechanism is an absorption jewel on his forehead (NOT an infinity gem), so all heat beams should come from that jewel, which is how John Buscema always drew it, but since nobody's keeping track of this, later artists have shown it coming from his eyes, which makes no sense.

Also, logic says it's a really poor use of his energy reserves. Why not go diamond hard and have Hulk throw you at the meteor? That would be more effective than burning up your energy source throwing heat beams at it. (Also, the gravity of a meteor that size would have had significant damage regardless of what the Avengers/Champions did.) Anyway, that was established here to make this nonsensical plot work.

Anyway, back to Legacy. In Iceman, nobody could remember how they first met the Black Widow. Again, reality is in flux.

I've read most of the other Legacy books this week, but I haven't seen similar. Of course, I don't know the status quo of these characters, so I might miss some clue where that "reality" is messed with.

Ronald Morgan: Dr. Strange#381? Did they combine all his old titles together?

I've covered this. Do you not read my posts, Ronald? Detective 445 did yeoman duty by repeating it.

But, yes, the legacy numbering is horse patootie. Now, as it was the first time they did this.

Thor is including Journey into Mystery #1-82 in its legacy numbering, which is silly. I imagine -- although I still haven't looked -- that Iron Man legacy numbering will include Tales of Suspense #1-38, Hulk legacy numbering will include Tales to Astonish #1-57, and Dr. Strange legacy numbering will include Strange Tales #1-109. This is because these characters took on the numbering of those titles in 1968, when the split-book titles split up. (Cap, Sub-Mariner and S.H.I.E.L.D all got #1s, but the other three -- and Thor -- carried on old numbering.) That's the explanation, but it's not a very good excuse. Especially when most of these legacy numberings don't include Giant-Size, Annuals, miniseries and other character-specific books that have a better claim to be counted than pre-Marvel Age Atlas books, which were published before the Silver Age characters even existed.

More evidence of the nonsensicality of the legacy numbering: Detective 445, you are correct that Black Panther's numbering includes the issues of Daredevil where T'Challa starred, and Matt Murdock didn't. However, despite your well-reasoned assumption, the Daredevil numbering does include those issues -- which it shouldn't, as you point it.

*shrug* For the second time it has done the legacy-numbering thing, Marvel is playing fast and loose for what counts in order to make a book's publishing date coincide with a numerical "anniversary."

It is what it is.

Ronald Morgan: How long did his 70s title last? That would add some. But why isn't Marvel Two In One past #100?

Again, Mr. Morgan, read my previous posts. Marvel is continuing "legacy numbering" for a variety of titles. But it isn't for a variety of others. Why books like Captain America and Avengers get legacy numbering, and books like Marvel Two-In-One and Defenders do not, is not obvious to those of us out here in readerland. Marvel must have some reason for what it's doing, but it's not clear at this point what that reason is.

Rob Staeger: I looked at this week's issue of Iron First, and the cover dress was confusing as all get out. 

Agreed. As you note, some legacy-numbering titles and some new #1s are all indicating on the cover that whatever story is inside, it is "Part One," or somesuch. But then again, some titles, like Iron Fist #73 (which you cite) do not. It's kind of a hodge-podge.

I will note that all Legacy titles I've seen have at least ONE visual element on the cover in common: The issue number has a jagged balloon around it.

Rob Staeger: That's not what I'd consider new-reader friendly.

It really isn't, is it? But then, I don't think Rebirth was that much reader-friendly. I think both Marvel and DC have no idea how to market books to their actual market, which is mostly older fans, about half more Bronze Age fans, and a smattering of new ones.

The publishers want to move ahead, but really, they can't just dump us Boomers and Millennials, can they? We are the bulk of their buyers. They can't dump an existing readership for a possible readership, because that always ends in failure. (But God knows they try ...)

[Detective 445]

Missing Doctor Strange but...

[The Baron]

Say, if they're including the pre-Thor issues of Journey Into Mystery  in Thor's numbering, shouldn't the 15 issues of Amazing Fantasy be included in Spider-Man's numbering?  ;)

[Randy Jackson]

There was a vibe throughout the issue suggesting that something was messing with their heads. It wouldn't surprise me if that was part of the lousy strategy.

Captain Comics said:

BTW, I'd like to say without encouraging the Negative Nancies on the board that the way these characters attacked the meteor was, uh, kinda stupid.

[Philip Portelli]

And they are including the current Hulk series with She-Hulk yet Totally Awesome Hulk, another different Hulk, gets included with Incredible Hulk.

The Baron said:

Say, if they're including the pre-Thor issues of Journey Into Mystery  in Thor's numbering, shouldn't the 15 issues of Amazing Fantasy be included in Spider-Man's numbering?  ;)

[Detective 445]

A few I missed: