New Avengers Titles and other silver age mis-steps...

Philip Portelli November 15, 2011 at 4:36pm

Could a second Avengers title have been feasible in the Silver Age? Marvel had so few heroes, as compared to today. But if they threw together Doctor Strange, Daredevil, Spider-Man, the Hulk and Sub-Mariner, they'd have....well, they have The Defenders but what team would have made a fitting second Avengers team?

Figserello November 15, 2011 at 4:44pm

Heroic Age was a big re-start that followed a revolutionary 7-year arc that was very centrally managed. Fear Itself was then a very Avengers-centric crossover that would have taken a lot of editorial energy and supplied the fanboys with the sensation and faux-novelty that a big shake-up internal to the title would have supplied.

The dust hasn't settled on Fear Itself yet, but expect big 'Nothing will ever be the sames' coming down the pipe when it does.

How long is Bendis going to write Avengers for anyway?

Figserello November 15, 2011 at 4:53pm

The Avengers raison d'etre has been in the intro box for a very long time. They are heroes banded together to face threats too big for any of them singly.

I can't recall when their stories haven't been about that. That definition of the Avengers also explains why just about anyone can be a member.

Regarding all those Avengers spin-offs on the shelves, it has been true in the past that the more of them a property has, the poorer the comics tend to be as a line. Maybe Marvel are hoping to profit from quantity rather than quality these days.

Kirk G November 15, 2011 at 5:27pm

Perhaps what I'm reacting to is the decompressed writing style, or perhaps the serial part of each adventure.

Given that each issue was an adventure unto itself when Stan was writing the title, you had 15 complete stories told by the end of the first golden age period.

But looking at the extended format, the cross-overs and the inability to reach closure, I'd be hard pressed to identify much more than a few stories that have occured in the last 19 issues of most of these titles, right?

Figserello November 15, 2011 at 5:32pm

Excellent point. 18 issues of the original Dark Avengers were maybe 4-5 storylines and a lot of what seems like filler to us old-timers.

Decompressed might have its place if used now and again, but as a house-style, what it amounts to is a lot less bang-for-your-buck and value for money for the consumer. And the shrinking market attests that, in this case at least, the consumer aint stupid.

Kirk G November 15, 2011 at 5:45pm

Here's a good example.

We have Norman Osborn assemble his own team of Dark Avengers.

Basically, we have villians impersonating the heroes, right?
This same concept came up back in about 1964-65 in X-men #20-21, when the Blob and Unus decide to masquerade as the classic X-men student costumes and rob a bank. (Roy Thomas wrote this one, I believe...his first such X-men story....)

And although there were a host of characters in this two-parter, the story dealt with the concept of impersonation and unveiling in just one issue, I believe... even though the authorities didn't know they were villians posing as heroes... we did.

and the villians make their escape on top of a subway train....never to be heard from for at least a year and a half, as I recall... all mention of the school uniforms being dropped then.

Figserello November 16, 2011 at 4:01am

I've just noticed that the cover for Avengers #18 shows Cap playing with his superhero collector cards and deciding 'Who will be an Avenger?'

So there you go.

The current run of Secret Avengers are all done-in-ones with weird story elements and non-stop action. Considerring the old storytelling style is gone for good, they're not bad.

Rich Lane November 16, 2011 at 6:16am

It's not the decompression that sometimes bothers me; it's the pacing. I don't mind a good six parter if each piece forwards the story sufficiently and has enough characterization and action. It's the interminably drawn out "this-MUST-fit-a-TPB" stories I dislike.

There's a distinct difference.

Kirk G said:

Here's a good example.

We have Norman Osborn assemble his own team of Dark Avengers.

Basically, we have villians impersonating the heroes, right?
This same concept came up back in about 1964-65 in X-men #20-21, when the Blob and Unus decide to masquerade as the classic X-men student costumes and rob a bank. (Roy Thomas wrote this one, I believe...his first such X-men story....)

And although there were a host of characters in this two-parter, the story dealt with the concept of impersonation and unveiling in just one issue, I believe... even though the authorities didn't know they were villians posing as heroes... we did.

and the villians make their escape on top of a subway train....never to be heard from for at least a year and a half, as I recall... all mention of the school uniforms being dropped then.

Dandy Forsdyke November 16, 2011 at 12:16pm

A mix of the FF and X-Men - Torch, Angel, Thing, Beast? Or an Asgardian an Inhuman, an Atlantean ... sounds like the start of a joke. I wonder if they go into a bar?

Philip Portelli said:

Could a second Avengers title have been feasible in the Silver Age? Marvel had so few heroes, as compared to today. But if they threw together Doctor Strange, Daredevil, Spider-Man, the Hulk and Sub-Mariner, they'd have....well, they have The Defenders but what team would have made a fitting second Avengers team?

Kirk G November 16, 2011 at 4:16pm

That's part of what made me ask about this. And who made Cap in charge of who's an avenger, and who's not?

Figserello said:

I've just noticed that the cover for Avengers #18 shows Cap playing with his superhero collector cards and deciding 'Who will be an Avenger?'

So there you go.

The current run of Secret Avengers are all done-in-ones with weird story elements and non-stop action. Considerring the old storytelling style is gone for good, they're not bad.

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New Avengers Titles and other silver age mis-steps...

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