Fan of Bronze: The '70s JLA/JSA Team-Ups: Some Observations

[Philip Portelli]

This is where my Golden Age (as Mister Silver Age wisely says) begins. Though that's not entirely true as my first comic was Justice League of America #103, but I read this one two or three years later.

I'm also going to split this up by issues at least for this three-parter.

This was Len Wein's first JLA issue as well as its 100th, so he had an anniverary to celebrate, to boot. How do you make this team-up special: you add another team! Strangely he doesn't think Teen Titans or Legion of Super-Heroes, he thinks about a little remembered Golden Age team. I'll speak about them later. First:

JUSTICE LEAGUE #100 (Au'72): The Unknown Soldier of Victory!

The conceit of this issue was that it was the JLA's 100th meeting. I will assume this meant regularly scheduled meetings, not emergancies. If the League met monthly then they've been around eight years, four months. If weekly, then it's less than two years, which seems unlikely.

The JLA: The entire active JLA roster is present here. This allows Aquaman to interact with the JSA for only the second time. There is the first (?) Green Arrow/Hawkman verbal joust. They hold this special event in their original mountain sanctuary, which is nowhere near Happy Harbor. Trust me on this! :-) There are guests though.

Metamorpho the Element Man: after saying "NO!" to JLA membership but becoming a "standby" member and had stood by for 60 issues, Rex finally shows up! Wein probably liked the character and felt the League needed a little muscle for this adventure, which it did!

Ralph Dibny, the World-Famous Elongated Man: Wein loved this guy! He only met the team once in #51. Met them, did not work with them---a long magical tale! But he would soon join in #105!

Zatanna the Magician: she worked twice with the JLA but several times with its various members. Besides why Wouldn't you want her at your party??

Diana Prince, Wonder Woman: this was a woman who felt humbled and would not have even came if Batman had not insisted even though she had more reason to be there than the other guests!

Then there were the cameos:

The Martian Manhunter: this FOUNDING member of the JLA was left out as most writers could not get a decent handle on him. Plus he was on Mars II though he would return for #115.

Snapper Carr: Unable to face his mentors after his actions in #77. He would also show up again in #114.

Adam Strange: Still on Rann. The most deserving "honorary" member had to stay home!

If the Elongated Man and Metamorpho who helped the JLA once were invited, why not Robin, Batgirl, Hawkgirl, Mera, the Creeper, the Earth-One Vigilante or Sargon the Sorcerer? Just asking why not? Wouldn't the wives want to go with their husbands?

The JSA: No new information is given but on hand were: Doctor Fate, Sandman, Hourman, Johnny Thunder, Doctor Mid-Nite, Starman, Wonder Woman, Wildcat and Red Tornado.

Fate brings the JLA to E-2 because of The Hand that Holds the Earth! Literally, a planetary size hand about to crush the Earth, created (somehow, despite no obvious technology nor the massive amount of energy needed to use it) by mysterious villain The Iron Hand.

Fate also with Zatanna and the Thunderbolt summon the cosmic Oracle who knows all of what happened and the past is his domain. He tells the two teams that the answer lies in a third team, one no one remembers, The Seven Soldiers of Victory (7SV)!

BTW, where were the E-2 Superman, Flash, Hawkman, etc? Strange that they would be absent?

The 7SV: their roster was: The Shining Knight, the Green Arrow and Speedy (of E-2), the Vigilante (of E-2), the Star Spangled Kid and *sigh* Stripesy and the Crimson Avenger!

No one remembers them because they were blasted into the past following their destroying of the Nebula Man. Oracle will send seven three-man teams into time to recover the missing Soldiers. He also tell them of the 7SV's first adventure against a crimelord, The Hand. Hmmm?

Now the 7SV were an unknown factor to readers in the 70s or were they? I know I read their reprinted adventure in JLA #111-112 before I read these issues, so I knew who they were!

In JLA #76 (D'69), a portrait of the 7SV was seen, complete with roll call.

In JLA #78-79 (F-Ma'70), the Earth-One Vigilante was revived. There were reprints in Action #403 (Au'71) and #405 (O'71). There were new stories in Adventure # 417 (Ma'72) and #422 (Au'72). He also teamed with Superman in World's Finest #214 (N'72).

The Shining Knight was re-presented in World's Finest #205 (S'71) and Adventure #417 (Ma'72).

Superboy #185 (My'72) had a reprinted Star Spangled Kid tale.

So if you read DC comics during that period, the heroes of the 7SV were familar to you.

Chapter 2: Doctor Fate, the Atom and the Elongated Man appear in Aztec Mexico where they battle a mesmerized Crimson Avenger, who thinks he's a Sun-god because of the powers given to him by a hunk of the Nebula Man that came with him. ICK! By destroying the nebluite, the Avenger is cured and they vanish!

Some Notes: Not to tweak a certain Morrison scholar, but The Nebula Man was originally described as an "awesome, giant Earth-man!" who conquered and killed until he was destroyed by the 7SV's "new weapon" at the cost of a Soldier's life!

Oracle was an intriguing character. Sadly he was not used again after this tale.

Next: Three Soldiers Trapped In Time or I Wanna Go with Superman!

[Commander Benson]

Philip, my notion, originally, was to remain out of your discussions of the post-Fox/Sekowsky JLA era.  Almost none of it appeals to me, but it is neither my place, nor my intention, to dash water on your prefered version of the Justice League.  Or anyone else's.  We all have a time-frame in the history of the group to which we cleave, and there's no fellowship in kicking your favourite version around the block.

 

I did let my indignance get the best of me a few times, and I did comment.  But I've got it out of my system now, and I'm staying out of the general critiques.  You did raise a very good point a little earlier, though, which I can address objectively.

Philip Portelli said:

And he did have an editor, Julius Schwartz, a pioneer in the Golden Age and one of the main architects of the Silver Age and stalwart of the Bronze Age. None of these premise-changing events happen without his sayso. And he must have said so!

True, dat.  There's no way to know, of course, what was rumbling through Julius Schwartz's noggin when he O.K.'d those particular stories---I'm not claiming absolute fact here---but I think I can make a surmise.

 

All of the several references on my bookshelves that address this late-'60's/early-'70's period of DC point out how the powers-that-be were confounded over why Marvel Comics was rapidly overtaking them.  "Bad art," suggested Sol Harrison; "bad writing," somebody else advanced; on the notion  that comics fans would prefer, for some unfathomable reason, poorer quality.  Or "relevance".  Maybe that was it---relevance.

 

To you or me, the qualities which distinguished Marvel's product seem evident.  But DC had been at the top of the industry mountain---'way at the top---for decades, and most of its executives and editors and talent had been around for nearly as long.  And their product had certainly gotten better.  DC's art and writing of the Silver Age (no matter how one wants to savage it from a modern perspective) was certainly better than that, in most cases, of the Golden Age.  It was hard for those folks to shake their paradigm of what made a good comic book.

 

But they did recognise that Marvel was doing something right, and I think they understood, at least, that they were out of touch generationally with the then-current crop of comics fans.

 

I think Julius Schwartz knew that there was something out there that he didn't understand, something that had shifted in the fans' preferences for what made a good comic-book story.  He knew for sure that the old methods weren't working, anymore.

 

And until he was able to figure it out, he probably trusted the New Turk writers at DC---O'Neil, Wein, Friedrich, Conway, et al.---more than he would have otherwise.  On the idea that, with them being young fellows and all, they would be more in tune to what then-modern fans wanted to read.  At that, "trusted" is probably too strong a word for Schwartz.  It was probably more like he crossed his fingers and hoped it worked.

 

On that basis, when a story crossed his desk that his editorial instincts told him was drek, he might have signed off on some of them, anyway.  Hoping maybe the writer understood something about the modern generation that he didn't.

 

In retrospect, he should have trusted his instincts and experience more.

 

As I have pointed out.  As Mr. Silver Age has pointed out.  As the Fogey has pointed out.  And as others, whom I cannot recall to cite, have pointed out:  DC's error was in trying to "out-Marvel" Marvel.  To quote Rocky, the Flying Squirrel, "That trick never works."

 

DC would have been better off playing to its strengths, doing the things that had kept it at the top for so long.  Now, I'm not suggesting that it should have ignored Marvel and hoped it would go away.  Certainly, there were some lessons it could take from Marvel and use them to do some honing and tweaking of their own stuff.  But I'm talking about minor modifications, not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

Julius Schwartz, in fact, did this on the Superman titles.  Not at first.  At first, he went with O'Neil and that "Sand-Superman" thing of depowering the Man of Steel.  But it didn't take.  What he learnt from that was the fans were still fond of the old Superman and he couldn't depart too radically from that.

 

So what Schwartz did do was take some of Marvel's more realistic approach to super-heroism and use it to make the old Weisinger mythos more palatable to the modern generation.  Lois Lane stopped being a shrew and an incessant secret-identity snoop and became a consistent and likeable personality.  Clark Kent's life was fleshed out until he became more than just Superman wearing a suit and glasses and pretending to be timid.  Jimmy Olsen grew up.  Supporting characters became more than just walk-ons to advance the plot.

 

As for the more fanciful aspects of the Silver-Age mythos, Schwartz used them a lot less and when he did, tried to make them a bit more plausible, at least, enough for a reader to switch from "Oh, come on!" to "O.K., I'll buy that, as long as I don't think too hard on it."

 

But through it all, he never changed the basic DC approach to stories. 

 

And maybe Schwartz latched on to this for the JLA title, too, later on in the '70's.  I'm not really sure because, by that point, I was buying and reading JLA on auto-pilot.  But for those first couple of years of the decade, he was clearly flailing, looking for what worked.  And maybe that accounts for stories like  "The Most Dangerous Dreams of All".

[Philip Portelli]

First of all, Commander, your comments are welcomed here always and looked forward to. That you respond to anything that I write means a lot!

The Marvel conundrum that DC worried over seems out there. "Bad writing!" Wordy writing, grandiose writing perhaps. Both Stan and Roy appeared to be paid by the word, instead by the story but that was their style. "Bad Art!" Kirby, Dikto, Romita, Buscema, Sinnott, Heck, et al? That's a crazy way of looking at it! But DC's Silver Age artists adapted in the 70s far better than its writers. Swan, Novick, Framdon, Kubert, Anderson, Dillin, Andru among others modernized their techiques and never seemed "old-fashioned" to me anyway. Cary Bates, Elliot S! Maggin, Len Wein, Martin Pasko and Gerry Conway followed Denny O'Neil's lead and learned to make changes gradually and not with a sledge-hammer!

But I agree that they lost their way in that 1968-1971 period but It did get better! Just in time for an eight year old boy to get Justice League of America #103 for Christmas and discover wonderful new worlds!

[ClarkKent_DC]

Philip Portelli said:

The Marvel conundrum that DC worried over seems out there. "Bad writing!" Wordy writing, grandiose writing perhaps. Both Stan and Roy appeared to be paid by the word, instead by the story but that was their style. "Bad Art!" Kirby, Dikto, Romita, Buscema, Sinnott, Heck, et al? That's a crazy way of looking at it! But DC's Silver Age artists adapted in the 70s far better than its writers. Swan, Novick, Framdon, Kubert, Anderson, Dillin, Andru among others modernized their techiques and never seemed "old-fashioned" to me anyway. Cary Bates, Elliot S! Maggin, Len Wein, Martin Pasko and Gerry Conway followed Denny O'Neil's lead and learned to make changes gradually and not with a sledge-hammer!

I think the Commander is spot-on, and it's hardly any secret that DC was worried about the challenge from Marvel, and it's pretty clear that they drew the wrong lessons from what Marvel was doing that was working.

"Bad writing!" Sure, bad writing. DC books were written precisely, with the writer drafting scripts that told the artist exactly what to draw on each page and in each panel. And the story idea, often as not, came from the editor who dictated to the writer exactly what to put in that script before he even touched his keyboard. And DC stories began on the first page and ended on the last page, with whatever exposition necessary to tell the reader what was going on. None of this, "Hey, Jack, how's about a building falls on Captain America next issue?" "But he's fighting Batroc's Brigade on the Brooklyn Bridge this issue." "Yeah, so? You figure it out" stuff.

"Bad Art!" Kirby, Dikto, Romita, Buscema, Sinnott, Heck, et al? That's a crazy way of looking at it! Sure, bad art. I admit, I'm not the greatest fan of Jack Kirby. But you have to admit that the first two to three years' worth of Fantastic Four and Avengers stories aren't anywhere as slick and polished as anything any DC artist was doing at the time, even journeymen like Irv Novick and Mike Sekowsky and Sid Greene. As Marv Wolfman once said, those early Fantastic Fours were as crude as anything, and I wholly agree; they got better later in the run. And DC wouldn't have let Steve Ditko even sharpen pencils for someone like Curt Swan or Joe Kubert.

 

This is NOT an argument over who was "better" or "worse." It's more that what Marvel was doing didn't fit the mold, as DC saw it, and DC couldn't understand why it was catching on. 

[Philip Portelli]

JUSTICE LEAGUE # 107-108 (O-D'73): Crisis On Earth-X!/Thirteen Against the Earth!

This story opens with the two teams awfully proud of themselves for building the Transmatter Machines, devices capable of switching people between the Earths. Apparently this could only be done previously at certain times of the year (usually August and September :-)). Not I remember that being stated. After all, the Supermen, Flashes, Green Lanterns, Doctor Fate and Johnny Thunder's Thunderbolt were able to travel between their worlds any time they wanted. Possibly even the Wonder Women and Starman could do it as well. Even the Earth-Two Atom could with his atomic *sigh* vibrator! No off color comments, please!

The Red Tornado used to but the Android Airspinner lost that ability when he was blown to smithereens Earth-One as revealed in #106. Now Reddy wants to try to return to the world of his creation via the TM Machine. (Of course the question would be, "Why?" since he was obviously miserable there!) But the JLA says no, worried how the device might effect him. So the first TM trial begins...

The JLA: In all the team-ups, this is the weakest line-up ever: Batman, Green Arrow and the newly joined Elongated Man.Wein would use EM in all three of his team-ups!

The JSA: a bit more powerful with:

Doctor Fate- the all time favorite JSA member and de facto leader in these adventures;

The Sandman- also used in all three of Wein's team-ups. In some ways the most realistic JSAer:

Superman-even though he appeared in three previous team-ups, only now does he shine! With his grey temples and different insignia, he finally is portrayed as an individual.

All six heroes materialize on another Earth, designated Earth-X. Originally Wein wanted it to be Earth-(Swastika) but editor Schwartz rightfully shot him down. Though why it wasn't called Earth-Four is unknown.

The heroes are attacked by Nazis in America. They learn some facts rather quickly: Doctor Fate can't control his magic here, the Nazis have super-weapons and it's the Red Tornado's fault that they're there!

After Fate accidently knocks out Superman and the Nazis incapitates the others, they are rescued by heroes who have not been seen in twenty to thirty years:

The Freedom Fighters, comprised of characters from Quality Comics:

Uncle Sam-Living symbol of America, literally the poster boy for Freedom!

Doll Man- once one of Quality's biggest stars (sorry!), possesses the least macho super-hero name!

Phantom Lady-fortunately left her 50s overt sexualness behind!

The Human Bomb- long time Quality B-lister. Perhaps the most potentially dangerous hero in the Bronze Age!

The Ray- the Master of Light. Still calls himself "Happy"!

The Black Condor- as a boy, raised by real condors and taught himself to fly! Without wings, nth metal, feathers or anything! You got to love the Golden Age!

Anyway after the FF get the others to safety, we learn the circumstances on why and how the Nazis won World War II using Mind Control Stations (MCS) which quickly cowed any resistance except for the FF who were immune to them, (thanks to Uncle Sam?). However there was another device that blocked anyone, including the FF, from seeing them or even knowing where they are! Quicker than you can say, "plot device", Doctor Fate learns where the MCS are. After a small arguement between Uncle Sam and the Black Condor, who must have woke up on the wrong side of the nest, they split into three teams, naturally, and leave the Tornado behind, naturally.

Chapter 2: In Paris, Batman, Doctor Fate, The Ray and the Human Bomb invade the Eiffel Tower, battle artificial opponents designed to defeat each of them (guess what they do?) and sleepwalk their way to victory. But nothing happens after the MCS is destroyed.

The shot of Batman on Page 16 is particularly memorable.

The Ray was only capable of flight and light-beams. He would have been rejected by the Legion but then all the Freedom Fighters would have been!

Chapter 3: Superman of E-2, Green Arrow, Phantom Lady and Doll Man go to Mount Fuji, Japan where the Nazis turned on their wartime allies. They quickly handle the Nazi Guards and confront the MCS which attempts to sink Japan. That takes Superman out of the picture but it still gets its wires crossed! But again, no one is freed!

It's great to see the near-arrogance of the original Man of Steel!

Phantom Lady has an improved black light beam.

Chapter 4: At Mount Rushmore, which now has a fifth face on it of Hitler (!!), Uncle Sam, Black Condor, the Sandman and the Elongated Man have an almost too-easy time but it's all a trick that Ralph's nose figures out! What did the JLA do without him all these years? But though the MCS is smashed, nothing changes!

Granted that Uncle Sam has super-strength but the other three's blows are capable of destroying a mountain?? Even Soggy-Fist Dibny?

Chapter 5: The heroes regroup but the FF are horrified to learn that the JLA/JSA are now controlled by the MCS and try to kill them! The Red Tornado can now track the mind controlling ray and follows it into Earth orbit and a Nazi satellite. There he is welcomed by Adolf Hitler who tries to tempt the Crimson Cyclone into joining him! After Reddy knocks his block off literally (Der Fuhrer has no luck with androids. See the original Human Torch!), he is confronted by The Last Mind Control Station. His whirling around the station sends it crashing to the sea. The Tornado escapes with a device that somehow lets them contact their Earths and brings them home!

With the destuction of the Last MCS, Earth-X is free! Unfortunately we don't see any results as the story quickly is resolved!

Some Notes: When I reread this tale, it struck me rather bluntly: the Freedom Fighters never free their world! It's Doctor Fate who finds the MCS on Earth but their termination does nothing. It is the Red Tornado, in one of his finest hours, that liberates Earth-X! I hope that he got a statue, at least.

Uncle Sam mentions other heroes who died fighting the Nazis, specifically Plastic Man and the Blackhawks. I wrote a Fan of Bronze entry where I try to condense their confusing continuities into one. I wish I could link it here!

The Freedom Fighters would get their own series in the mid 70s that lasted 15 issues. There we learn that they were so bored on Earth-X that they leave it for E-1 where their powers increase, they become wanted by the police, are forced to split up, encounter Firebrand, battle the Invaders (sorta) and generally feel that they made a bad career move. And they never contact the Justice League, though they do meet Wonder Woman in Freedom Fighters #4-5.

They could have done the story without the Justice League, instead of Bats, GA and EM, they could have used an all JSA team of Doctor Mid-Nite, Hourman and Starman! All they needed was the Red Tornado!

Next: "Like Sand in a Hour-glass..." 

 

 

[Philip Portelli]

Just so we're clear, I wasn't saying that Marvel had Bad Writing or Bad Art but was astonished to think that was DC's rationalization of it. Of course Kirby's early Marvel work was crude; he was drawing 75% of the product. When he was able to focus on Fantastic Four and Thor, with Joe Sinnott and Vince Colletta, respectively, inking him. his work was incredible. Dikto, IMO, suffered from too many panels and a dark color pallette. When he had room to expand his story, he was great. Best example, off the top of my head, is Amazing Spider-Man Annual #1!

DC, on the other hand, would create a killer cover first, then write the story around it, sometimes with extemely awkward results. This continued into the 70s.

Both companies had their good points and bad points but my point was DC's wrong conclusions for Marvel's success!

ClarkKent_DC said:

Philip Portelli said:

The Marvel conundrum that DC worried over seems out there. "Bad writing!" Wordy writing, grandiose writing perhaps. Both Stan and Roy appeared to be paid by the word, instead by the story but that was their style. "Bad Art!" Kirby, Dikto, Romita, Buscema, Sinnott, Heck, et al? That's a crazy way of looking at it! But DC's Silver Age artists adapted in the 70s far better than its writers. Swan, Novick, Framdon, Kubert, Anderson, Dillin, Andru among others modernized their techiques and never seemed "old-fashioned" to me anyway. Cary Bates, Elliot S! Maggin, Len Wein, Martin Pasko and Gerry Conway followed Denny O'Neil's lead and learned to make changes gradually and not with a sledge-hammer!

I think the Commander is spot-on, and it's hardly any secret that DC was worried about the challenge from Marvel, and it's pretty clear that they drew the wrong lessons from what Marvel was doing that was working.

"Bad writing!" Sure, bad writing. DC books were written precisely, with the writer drafting scripts that told the artist exactly what to draw on each page and in each panel. And the story idea, often as not, came from the editor who dictated to the writer exactly what to put in that script before he even touched his keyboard. And DC stories began on the first page and ended on the last page, with whatever exposition necessary to tell the reader what was going on. None of this, "Hey, Jack, how's about a building falls on Captain America next issue?" "But he's fighting Batroc's Brigade on the Brooklyn Bridge this issue." "Yeah, so? You figure it out" stuff.

"Bad Art!" Kirby, Dikto, Romita, Buscema, Sinnott, Heck, et al? That's a crazy way of looking at it! Sure, bad art. I admit, I'm not the greatest fan of Jack Kirby. But you have to admit that the first two to three years' worth of Fantastic Four and Avengers stories aren't anywhere as slick and polished as anything any DC artist was doing at the time, even journeymen like Irv Novick and Mike Sekowsky and Sid Greene. As Marv Wolfman once said, those early Fantastic Fours were as crude as anything, and I wholly agree; they got better later in the run. And DC wouldn't have let Steve Ditko even sharpen pencils for someone like Curt Swan or Joe Kubert.

 

This is NOT an argument over who was "better" or "worse." It's more that what Marvel was doing didn't fit the mold, as DC saw it, and DC couldn't understand why it was catching on. 

[ClarkKent_DC]

Philip Portelli said:

Just so we're clear, I wasn't saying that Marvel had Bad Writing or Bad Art but was astonished to think that was DC's rationalization of it. Of course Kirby's early Marvel work was crude; he was drawing 75% of the product. When he was able to focus on Fantastic Four and Thor, with Joe Sinnott and Vince Colletta, respectively, inking him. his work was incredible. Dikto, IMO, suffered from too many panels and a dark color pallette. When he had room to expand his story, he was great. Best example, off the top of my head, is Amazing Spider-Man Annual #1!

DC, on the other hand, would create a killer cover first, then write the story around it, sometimes with extemely awkward results. This continued into the 70s.

Both companies had their good points and bad points but my point was DC's wrong conclusions for Marvel's success!

So we are on the same wavelength! Cool!

[Figserello]

Back to issues 100 - 102.

 

Well, I enjoyed that. The rest of the story wasn't as good as that first issue, but #100 does lift the whole thing up to a higher level. Yes, the ending was a little naff, with a clunky robot lifting their big metal super-weapon from under the noses of the world's fastest man, Superman himself and the world's greatest detective, not to mention two of the finest practitioners of the old hocus pocus. (Or "Sucoh sucop", if you will.)



 

I can see, Jeff, that one's opinion of this story would be affected if you hadn't read issue 100 first. Of course, 100 would have been harder to get a hold of than the others once it left the shelves.



 

I loved the respect shown to the earliest JLA adventures, with the format of the team splitting up and returning. Wasn't that the format of the Golden Age JSA too? This was also used nicely in that late-nineties JSA mini-series set at the end of the Second World War. It does look a little too obvious, structurally to today's readers, but nice to revisit now and again. It was a way, once they had the three issues to work in, to give all the participants their moment. 

 

(Atom and Elongated Man went along with Dr Fate in case the good Doctor was neutralised by tiny men punching him on the nose.)

 

That Batman knew how Starman's rod worked even better than Ted Knight means that back then he was even keeping files on heroes from entirely different universes, their assets and weaknesses.

 

WARNING!!  Polemic follows:

 

I thought Wing's role as the sacrificed Unknown 8th soldier was great, and as Philip astutely pointed out, something there was tied to his previous depiction as an offensive racial stereotype. I don't think Philip's observation deserved a harrumph at all, or a withholding of a harrumph either. There's mileage in it. 



 

Wing was othered and dehumanised by that depiction. A great deal of his humanity, and his dignity was removed thereby. The twist of the story relies on him not even rating as one of the real Seven Soldiers of Victory, being the 8th! Wein makes a special point of showing that Wing was every bit as heroic as the rest and took all the same risks as them, and more.  The unfairness of this is part of the unspoken pathos of Wing’s fate, which has been foreshadowed by the fate of the 7 Soldiers themselves, making great sacrifices and being totally forgotten.  The emotional climax of Wein’s story depends on Wing’s fate. 

 

Mr Silver Age objected earlier in this thread to the idea of using these comics to explore grown-up themes in a comicbook way, or using the characters and concepts in an allegorical way, as Moore had done, because the readership was so young.  Now, when Wein explores important themes in an artistic way in the language of a kid’s comic, we have older readers saying that the final revelation of Wing’s key role was too obvious!  DC can’t win!  Maybe in terms of PLOT it could have been any member of the 7SV who sacrificed themselves, but that it was Wing is part of the THEME.  Good stories need BOTH.  A story without a theme is just a list of events happening.

 

Wing’s minority status and previous racist depiction is part of the fabric of this story, and can’t be non-harrumphed away.  Further proof that it is an integral part of this tale is that Wing’s plight is echoed in the obviously parallel story of Red Tornado.  Tornado is literally dehumanised, and treated as a ‘thing’ by his white middle-class ‘colleagues’.  Philip has pointed out all the times they refer to him derisively to his face.  Yes, he whinges a lot, but though he verbalises it, that is mainly the comics convention of characters talking to themselves when they are alone.  Yes, it would be nice if those who perceive themselves as othered and dehumanised by ‘normal’ society wouldn’t complain about it all the time and get in our faces.  Still, none of us could stop ourselves THINKING along those lines if we found ourselves in Tornado’s position.  The Commander’s wish that Red Tornado should shut up, step up, and serve (sacrifice himself for?) those who don’t even treat him as a real person is a good illustration of the attitudes that Wing and the Red Tornado are up against.

 

The parallels between Wing and Tornado – both valuable team members who weren’t really team-members - are too obvious not to see that Wein is making a wider point with them.

 

I’ve said earlier that these stories are part of a decades-long conversation between the generations – virtually unprecedented in other artforms - which adds to their richness.  Here Wein is subtly (it is an anniversary story after all) criticising certain dominant attitudes of previous continuity, not to mention attitudes that have continued to our own day. This is the kind of thing that makes these kids comics worth reading all these decades later.

 

Here Endeth the Polemic.

[Philip Portelli]

The Golden Age Justice Society stories had each hero have a solo chapter but this was changed in the late 40s to two or three man teams. The Silver Age JLA perfected this strategy.

As for Wing, there was a reason DC did not reprint any of the Crimson Avenger's stories. And they reprinted more obscure characters than him. They even re-lettered the Gay Ghost to become the Grim Ghost.

Look how Chop-Chop was altered in the 50s, 60s and 70s, finally becoming Chopper.

They never reprinted any Golden Age Captain Marvel tales with Billy's valet, Steamboat in them and they reprinted a LOT of Golden Age stories in the 70s.

The same goes for Timely's Young Allies. Whitewash Jones was simply unacceptable. Look how they rationalized it in Captain America: Forever Allies because there was no getting around it!

The same strategy actually worked for Wing in Secret Origins #5 and The Crimson Avenger mini-series.

[Commander Benson]

Figserello said:

WARNING!!  Polemic follows . . . .

Wow! I didn't get all that out of the story when I read it back in '72.  I wouldn't if I read it this afternoon, either.

 

I knew from JLA # 100 that Wing would turn out to be the hero who sacrificed himself 'way back when to destroy the Nebula Man the first time.  Not because he was an Oriental, or because I was looking for some sub-textual commentary on attitiudes toward race in this country.  I knew it would turn out to be Wing because, as a mystery writer, Len Wein was no Rex Stout.

 

At that time, I had never read any Golden-Age story of the Crimson Avenger and Wing.  But no fan had to have in order to be aware of Wing's status as the "unofficial eighth Soldier of Victory".  That information was put out in a number of places, but particularly most recently at the time, in the text piece accompanying the 7SoV pin-up that appeared in JLA # 76 (Nov-Dec., 1969).  Like many comics writers did in that era, Wein underestimated the knowledge of the readers.

 

Nor did I see any especial social commentary in the fact that Wing was the hero who sacrificed himself.  He was no more, nor less, courageous than any of his fellow Law's Legionnaires.  He was just the one who found himself in the position to take the action necessary.  That's how a lot of brave men become heroes.

 

Nor did I see any sort of parallel between him and the Red Tornado.  Wing was upbeat, resourceful, and a positive contributor to his partner and the team.  The Red Tornado was a whiner---and a whole lot worse.

 

You pointed out that much of his whining was simply the comics convention of verbalising his thoughts.  I'll give you that.   His Hamlet-like moaning and groaning was meant to appeal to youth, who typically feel disenfranchised from society, as well.  I guess either I wasn't young enough or disenfranchised enough to be sympathetic.

 

But the Tornado's flaws numbered more than that, and within the fictional conceit of the series. 

 

He was a screw-up.  His presence was a total disaster in that first mission with the Justice Society, in JLA # 64 (a mission, I will add, that he pushed his way into).  Sure, he pulled some saves on that case, too.  But (1) that wouldn't have been necessary if he hadn't messed up in the first place; and (2) he continued to screw up many times afterward.

 

And there was one other thing that everybody seems to miss:  the Tornado lacked the internal fortitude to act when necessary.

 

Remember "13 Days to Doom", from JLA # 72 (Jul., 1969).  The Red Tornado's appearance in that issue was a prelude to the upcoming JLA/JSA team-up.  As we learn, the Whirling Whiner has rushed over to Earth-One to obtain the Justice League's help against Aquarius, who has defeated the Justice Society and is on the verge of destroying Earth-Two.  And what happens when he arrives in the secret sanctuary?  When he tries to explain the situation, the JLAers pat him on the head and tell him "Not now."  And the Tornado hangs around the HQ moping for nearly two weeks before the Justice League finally get around to asking him what's up.

 

Now, I'm not excusing the Justice Leaguers in that story.  They acted like idiots.  But here's the thing:  the Tornado has rushed to Earth-One to get help for his teammates, ostensibly his only friends, because they and his world are facing imminent destruction, and what does he do?  He lets the JLA push him aside and he just sits around for almost two weeks---while his friends and the population of Earth-Two are dying!  One would think he would have had the guts to grab one of them and say, "Listen, you jerk, this is important!"  Or that he would have the starch to announce "I'm here on something vital and I'm going to spin your headquarters into rubble unless you sit down and listen!"

 

It's what you would have done.  It's what I would have done.  Blazes, it's what Barney Fife would have done, for crying out loud.  But, no, the Crimson Complainer didn't.  He just twiddled his thumbs and said, "Gee, I hope the Justice League gets back pretty soon."

 

To be sure, Fig, the Tornado didn't get treated very well by the Justice League; the members were downright cruel to him (and that part I don't excuse).  But they shunned him not because he was an android (or to follow your racial parallel, a non-white middle-classer), but because he was a screw-up and in other ways, generally just not someone you'd want hanging around.

 

The Justice League was under no obligation to welcome him to the gang or to treat him like a fellow super-hero.  They should have been more civil to him---I'll readily stipulate to that.  But they didn't have to put up with him because he couldn't hack it as a super-hero, but he really, really wanted to do good.

 

You could very well be exactly right in the metaphor and parallels that Len Wein was putting in that story.  I'm not saying you're wrong, Fig.  I'm just saying that it's open to interpretation. 

 

It's still not getting a harrumph from me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Philip Portelli]

Of course, you didn't read any Golden Age Crimson Avenger tales, Commander. None of us did because DC knew there would be objections to Wing's portrayal. You're right when you say Wing was brave and resourceful but that doesn't matter. The way he was drawn and the dialogue he was given rendered all that moot from a public relations standpoint.

If you showed The Spirit, one of the greatest features of all time, to an African-American who never seen it before and knew nothing about the deep bond of friendship and loyalty between the Spirit and Ebony, they would look at Ebony as an offensive racial stereotype. It was the style of the times, which we thankfully outgrew.

I read one Young Allies story and it was a two page texter but while gathering the team, one tells Whitewash to "put down that watermelon" and join them! Different times call for different approaches, even in their retelling or reprinting!

As for the Red Tornado, yes he showed no initiative in Justice League #72 but remember he was only in existence for a year and had no life experience. He deferred to the League, who it must be noted, went on with their lives while Reddy waited. Finally he decided to help the JLA solve their problem so they could listen to his!

In many ways, the Red Tornado was similar to a Marvel character with his foibles and difficulties.  

[Jeff of Earth-J]

OLD BUSINESS:

I can see, Jeff, that one's opinion of this story would be affected if you hadn't read issue 100 first. Of course, 100 would have been harder to get a hold of than the others once it left the shelves.

When DC first began publishing its JLA Archives series I stopped actively seeking out back issues. But their series stopped with issue #80, and now that DC is out of the archive business, I discovered I’m missing eight issues between #81 and #99 to have a complete run. (Please don’t anyone suggest DC Showcase Presents editions.)

Wasn't that the format of the Golden Age JSA too?

For the most part. I’m currently in the process of reading the complete run of Golden Age JSA adventures via All Star Comics Archives, but it’s pretty slow going. Read in quick succession, those formulaic stories can be quite a slog. Read individually (and by their intended audience at the time of their original publication), they are really quite clever, but if I ever attempt this project again, I’ll likely read just the first and last chapters.

…nice to revisit now and again.

Roy Thomas intentionally used the old Fox JSA formula he grew up reading in the first Avengers Annual. (I liked that ‘90s JSA mini-series, too.) How we perceive that that formula is all a matter of perspective. Speaking of which, we discussed perspective quite frequently on the old board, and in the days to come I’ll offer my perspective on the Red Tornado, but for now, on to…

NEW BUSINESS:

I have my Crisis on Multiple Earths tpbs shelved with the JLA Hereby Elects… tpb, so it was convenient for me to supplement the JLA/JSA team-up from #107-108 with #105 (Elongated Man joins) and #106 (Red Tornado joins). EM joined with little or no fanfare, but reading of Reddy’s return so close of the heels of his demise was fitting.

The Golden Age Quality Comics heroes of “Earth-X” have something in common with their Timely counterpart Captain America in that they all outlasted WWII and went on to have many post-war adventures which were ignored for the purposes of their respective revivals. The Freedom Fighters are also not native to Earth-X (as later retconned in All-Star Squadron), but rather expatriate denizens of Earth-2.

Though why it wasn't called Earth-Four is unknown.

According to Len Wein, Julius Schwartz used a pencil to erase the crossbars of Wein’s proposed Earth [Swastika], leaving an “X”.

[Doctor Hmmm?]

Jeff of Earth-J said:

OLD BUSINESS:

(Please don’t anyone suggest DC Showcase Presents editions.)

Not to threadjack OR start an argument about the merits of different formats ... but is color so important to you that you'd rather not be able to read the stories at all?