Venus was one of several heroines introduced by Marvel at the tail end of the 1940s. Her title underwent a curious sequence of transformations in comics genres in its 19-issue run, starting as a glamour comic, becoming a romance comics, then a science fiction comic, and finally a horror comic. Throughout her run, Venus always remained the same character: the Olympian goddess with the power of Love, who came to Earth from the planet Venus to live among mortals for a while. It’s interesting to speculate how these adventures jibe with the modern day Marvel Universe. Yes, I know she was involved in the origin of The Champions, and I’m aware that Jeff Parker later retooled the “Avengers of the 1950s” from What If? #9 into the Agents of Atlas, but those appearances are almost mutually exclusive. The most obvious explanation is that she’s not an Olympian goddess at all, but really one of Jack Kirby’s Eternals. That’s not the tack Jeff Parker took, but I guess that’s the difference between a professional writer and a fanboy. Still, it’s fun to imagine that there’s a little bit of truth in both versions of her backstory, especially when one considers one of her early antagonists was none other than Loki. I’ve been curious about this series most of my life, and whereas I expected to enjoy it, I didn’t expect it to fire my imagination to the degree it has. The Marvel Boy, Black Claw, and now Venus Marvel Masterworks make an excellent complement to Jeff Parker’s (now sadly defunct) Agents of Atlas. Volume one collects the humor/glamour/romance run, but the best is yet to come. After the title switches to science fiction/horror, Bill Everett takes over as artist!
Replies
VENUS #19:
First Story: "The Kiss of Death!" - This story begins so abruptly that, if I didn't know better, would have sworn was the second chapter of a continued story. Venus and Hammond are consulting a medium, but they are really there to debunk him. After an initial skirmish with some skeletons to get the story moving, the medium's next client arrives, an old man.The man and his three friends all fell in love with the same woman back in WWI. She could not choose among them, and promised to marry the last one living. That's him, but he has lost track of her over the years and wants the medium to find her for him. First, the medium summons the spirits of his three dead firends, but eventually Mara arrives. She is a skeleton, too, and the man rushes from the circle of protection, his glove falls from his hand. Mara's skeleton removes the flesh from his skull (in a scene similar to that depicted on the cover), while the three dead soldiers look on.
Second Story: "Demon from the Deep!" - Whit and Venus are aboard the luxury liner S.S. Castletown when a green slimey creature crawls aboard. Earlier that day he had murdered his two brothers so that he could inherit the family fortune. When he was discovered by the ship's officers, he fled and jumped over the side. They fired at him, but missed, Now he's back. When he catches a glimpse of his reflection, he freaks out. He chases Venus, who trips over something. The monster can't catch her anyway because he's an intyangible ghost. What Venus tripped over was the man's own corpse. Then the monster dissipates.
Third Story: "The Box of Doom!" - Working late one night, Venus receives a package. When she tries to open it up, the box glows eerily and offers her unlimited wealth and power. She resists, but the delivery boy succumbs to temptation. When he opens the box, a formless glob arises from it and merges with him. After a chase, Venus notices that he casts no reflection, realizes he's a vampire, and stakes him through the heart.
And that's the end of the "Atlas Era Venus." But this discussion is not over yet. Tomorrow I'll take a look at Venus's post-Atlas appearances, then on Wednesday I'll begin to delve into my Grand Unifying Theory Of Gods.
POST-ATLAS VENUS:
Venus disappears from the public eye at this point, resurfacing several years later during the Eisenhower administration. By this time she has cultivated a professional relationship with FBI agent Jimmy Woo and is one of five obscure heroes "assembled" by Woo to become the "Avengers" of the 1950s. This team shared only one mission together, however, before being disbanded by President Eisenhower: "These are suspicious times, my friends. People find communists under their beds--and Martians in every weather balloon. A few simplistic souls even feel that comic books, and anything resembling comic book characters--such as yourselves--are responsible for every social ill. That's why I'm asking you to disband the Avengers... while I take measures to cover up the fact that you ever existed!"
Venus's next known (chronological) appearance is during the "Summer of Love" (which seems appropriate) during which she met Thor for the first time. They also teamed with Pixie and Makarri of the Eternals as well as other members of the First Line to defeat the villain known as Rumor. It is also revealed that she knew Effigy as far back as 1952.
SUB-MARINER #57:
Venus's actual first appearance since 1952 was Sub-Mariner #57, written and drawn by Bill Everett. In the intervening 20 years, Everett had only gotten better. By 1972, Venus had assumed the role of Victoria Nutley Starr, Professor of Humanities and one of Namorita's teachers. She is helping to organize the students' peaceful demonstations against the war in Viet Nam. As the story opens, Namor spots a woman who has been "cast upon a rocky pinnacle that was not there a moment ago," recalling her mythological origin (one of them, anyway). She is being pursued by her suitor, whom she refers to as "Lord Ares--or, as I sometimes dub him, Mars." She introduces herself as Venus, but admits that Ares "chooses to call me Aphrodite" (although, later in the story, she says, "Aphrodite? I am Venus!" Interestingly, Ares swears an oath "by the thunder of Thor--by the forge of the mighty Vulcan." Why would a Greek God invoke the names of gods from two different pantheons? I have an idea, but I will say that this reinforces my idea that Marvel's 1950s comic book version of Thor and Vulcan are one and the same.
Venus displays a somewhat different power set this time out, including the ability to cast minor illusions and assume the form of a dolphin. As in the 1950s, she freely switches back-and-forth between her godlike and human personas. Also, it is her "Girdle of Cestus" which gives her the power of love over man or god, and without it she is defensless. With the help of Namor, Venus fights Ares to a standstill, then sends him back to Olympus to "lay your sins before the almighty Zeus" (not Jupiter). As with Whitney Hammond in the '50s, Nita does not believe her humanities professor is really a goddess.
THE CHAMPIONS #1-3:
By 1975 (real time), Professor of Humanities Victoria Nutley Starr was now teaching at UCLA. One day the campus is attacked by Harpies, Amazons and other creatures of myth looking for Venus. Hercules just happens to be there that day delivering a speech as a guest lecturer, Natasha Romanoff is there applying the the job of Russian language teacher, Warren Worthington and Bobby Drake are both students, and Johnny Blaze is there on an errand for a friend. They all get caught up defending Venus, and the villain is revealed to be Pluto.
Pluto has allied himself with other rulers of their respective underworlds. He the approached Zeus with the bargain that he would not attack Olympus if Zeus ordered Hercules to marry Hyppolyta and Venus to marry Ares. Actually, Pluto is using an Olympian law which dictates that "wife may not oppose husband--nor husband wife" in order to consolodate his forces, and plans to betray Ares and Hyppolyta later, anyway. After the initial skirmish, Hercules and Venus are captured and brought back to Olympus.
In this story, "Jupiter" is not mentioned, but Hercules is identified as Venus's cousin. Wouldn't that make Zeus her uncle? But aren't Zeus and Jupiter one and the same? (Don't worry; I've got this.) Pluto's perfidy is revealed, Ares and Hypollyta turn against him, and Venus elects to remain in Olympus. (The last we see of her, she is walking up to Ares' side.) This story makes it pretty clear that Venus is an Olympian goddess, not a naiad, not a siren, not an Eternal.
WHAT IF? #9:
In 1978 (real time), Iron Man calls a meeting of five very specific Avengers: himself, Captain America, Thor, Vision and the Beast. He has been experimenting with his own version of the dimensional transporter which brought the Squadron Supreme to Earth-616. He has discovered a group of "Avengers" (later to be known as the "Agents of Atlas") which banded together for a single mission in the 1950s, yet he his uncertain whether of not he is looking at the history of their Earth, or that of an alternate reality. He called these specific Avengers because he saw them as counterparts to the so-called "Avengers of the 1950s." Unbeknownst to any of them, however, their meeting is being observed the Watcher, and even he doesn't know whether or not Tony Stark's device is looking in on events of their own reality or those of a parallel world.
In 1999 (real time), the present-day Wasp and a Captain Marvel (Genis-Vel) from the future time-travel to an "imbalance point" in the space/time continuum, California in the year 1959, and discover that the "Avengers of the 1950s" did, indeed, remain together as a group for about six months prior to being disbanded by President Eisenhower. While they are there/then, reveal that Vice President Richard Nixon is being impersonated by a shape-shifting Skrull. In 2006 (real time), the "Avengers of the 1950s" are reformed as the "Agents of Atlas." I loved this series by Jeff Parker, but it is difficult to reconcile these characters (not only Venus, but all of the main characters to some extent) with their 1950s Atlas counterparts.
GIANT-SIZE AVENGERS #1:
The discrepancies are resolved (AFAIAC) in 2007's Giant-Size Avengers #1, also written by Jeff Parker. The "Marvel Adventures" line of comics takes place in an obviously different reality than Earth-616. An alternate timeline is created within that reality when, in 1958, Captain America is discovered frozen in ice by the Agents of Atlas, several years before he was supposed to have been by the Avengers. The groundwork had been laid as far back as 1978 that the events of What If #9 occurred in an alternate reality, the endnotes of Avengers Forever refer to the team as being from a "possibly-alternate timeline" and (again AFAIAC), Giant-Size Avengers #1 confirms it. In the post-Atals era, then, Sub-Mariner #57 and The Champions #1-3 occur on Earth-616, but most of What If #9 and the Agents of Atlas series both take place on "Earth-Atlas." (Agents of Atlas was mainly self-contained, but it may be assumed that any other heroes the Agents encountered during their adventures were actually natives of their own Earth.)
Next I'll begin my examination of who Venus is and how she fits in the pantheon of Marvel Gods.
GRAND UNIFIED THEORY OF GODS
Now that I have covered the 19 issues of Venus's "Atlas-era" run as well as her post-Atlas appearances, it's time to examine how she fits into the larger tapestry of the Marvel Universe as we know it today. In this treatment, I am going to avoid embellishments of my own (as much as possible) and concentrate primarily on evidence presented withi the stories themselves, but perhaps putting that information together in a new or unexpected manor. I will be relying primarily on the stories of John Byrne, Peter Gillis, Alan Zelenetz, J.M. DeMattias, and of course Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. I plan to present my "Grand Unified Theory of Gods" in four main sections.
I started by looking at the Greco-Roman pantheon of Gods as introduced during the "Marvel Age of Comics" and considered that canon. Some of them use their Greek names (Zeus, Hera, Ares, Artimis, Athena, Hermes, Hephaestus, Dionysius) and some of them use their Roman names (Pluto, Neptune, Venus, Vesta, Hercules), but I was mildly surprised to discover that, by accident or design, there was no contradiction or overlap. Although versions of Apollo and Hyppolyta (and "Thor") exist in both the Atlas Age and the Marvel Age, I will deal with that in the "Who is Jupiter?" section. Tto reiterrate, the Marvel Age versions are canon, and any discrepancies which exist in comparison to the Atlas Age versions must be dealt with and accounted for.
WHO IS VENUS?
Is she an Eternal? No. - That was a "neat idea" of my own I tossed out early on to account for the discrepancies between the Atlas and Marvel Ages. There's no published story which supports that theory, and besides, it's too similar to the way Roy Thomas folded Marvel Boy into the Marvel Universe.
Is she a Naiad or a Siren? No. - Evidence suggests that the Venus of the Atlas Age and the Venus of the Agents of Atlas series (as well as the other characters) are two distinct characters from two separate universe. (See yesterday's post.)
Is she an Olympian Goddess? Yes. - Again, I think yesterday's discussion of Sub-Mariner #57 and Champions #1-3 established that.
WHERE IS "VENUS"?
This one's pretty obvious, I think. The planet "Venus" of the early issues is actually Olympus. Atals simply got it wrong early on, and as soon as they realized their mistake, they course-corrected. I say all of the "godly realms" are in the same dimension. Take Asgard for example. From the Rainbow Bridge, Asgard appears to be an island floating in a sea of space. But once one steps off Bifrost and passes through the gates of the city itself, it is revealed to be an entire continent. As early as King-Size Journey Into Mystery #1, Thor found a tunnel which led between Asgard and Olympus and was able to walk there. In JiM #111, Balder encountered "a creature from a foreign universe" who happened to have wandered in to Asgard's outer regions. In Thor #143, Balder and Sif travelled to the far-off land of Ringsfjord where they encountered the Enchanters, powerful sorcerers "whose power comes from far beyond Asgard." I'll take my argument one step further: every comic book universe has such a dimension. In the DC universe, it's where New Genesis and Apokolips are; at Valiant, the Lost Land; at first, Cynosure. Every one of these realms have gateways from/to each other and to Earth. For Asgard it's the Rainbow bridge; for Olympus it's Mt. Olympus.
WHO IS LOKI?
If there is one thing I know about the underworld from reading comic books (Venus #9, Thor #128-130, Sandman's "Season of Mists") it is that ruling it is a dirty job that someone has to do, but no one wants to. I also know that there are as many versions of the underworld as there are pantheons of gods, and each one has its own unique ruler (see Defenders #111 as discussed here on March 18). So who is the "Loki" of the Atlas Age? Some have put forth that it might be the Deviant Kro, but I don't think so because there's no story evidence to support it. But if you look at Venus #9, Loki's minion Zoroba thinks of him as Lucifer. I think this is the same Lucifer mentioned by Satan in Defenders #111. Perhaps "Loki" is a nickname (of sorts) for "Lucifer" but (more likely), Atlas just got it wrong and should have been referring to him as Lucifer all along.
WHO IS JUPITER?
This one's a little trickier. The Gods first manifested themselves to the ancient Greeks thousands of years ago when they learned they could increase their power by the devotion and worship of mortals. When word of the Gods first spread across the Mediterranean, the Romans began using different names for them. The Gods created avatars of themselves and established a second Mt. Olympus in Italy to further empower them. But these avatars were more than just simple copies, each was actually a different aspect of the original, equal in power, a true, exact duplicate. But, after a thousand years, they discovered that twice as many worshipers meant twice as many demands upon them. After a time, worship of the "Old Gods" began to fade, replaced by Christianity and other religions. The decision was made to re-merge their two forms and forego human worship altogether.
But because the Greek and Roman versions of themselves were truly equal, some chose to retain their Greek identities while others adopted their Roman names. (This is why the Olympian Gods of the Marvel Universe have a mix of Greek and Roman names.) Certain Gods (noteably Jupiter), decided not to re-merge at first, putting it off for many centuries. Jupiter took these "duplicate" Gods and settled on Mt. Lustre. It is my assertion that none of the Gods who appeared during the Atlas Age, even those with the same name, are the same as their Marvel Age counterparts (Apollo, for example). When "Neptune" was reported "killed" in Venus #18, it was actually his aspect, which re-merged into a single being (but kept the name "Neptune" rather than "Poseidon") for his appearances in the Marvel Age.
Venus is actually the daughter of the aspect Jupiter, which is why she referred to Hercules as her "cousin" in Champions (because she thinks of Zeus as her "uncle"). It was the "death" of the Roman aspect of Neptune which led to the remaining Atlas Era Gods to re-merge with other selves. Shortly after that Venus disappeared from the public eye, until she resurfaced in Sub-Mariner #57 using the alias Victoria Nutley Starr. (Actually, I prefer to think she used that alias while working for Whitney Hammond at Beauty magazine as well, just another detail Atlas got wrong.) So that's my "Grand Unified Theory Of Gods." Take it or leave it.
That the Venus that appeared in Sub-Mariner #57 is the Olympian godess by that name is further established in 1987 "Avengers" #283-285. So is, apparently, that she also answers to "Aphrodite".
I like GOTUG. It's flexible enough to deal with any other discrepancies that may crop up.
I hate that Agents of Atlas is not canon in the 616. I guess that's beyond our control. I prefer Agents to the First Line as the fill-in for 1956-61.
That the Venus that appeared in Sub-Mariner #57 is the Olympian godess by that name is further established in 1987 "Avengers" #283-285. So is, apparently, that she also answers to "Aphrodite".
You know, Luis, I remembered that Apollo was mistaken for Thor (in silhouette, because of their winged helmets) and I actually did consult the "Assault on Olympus" storyline (to confirm that the God of the Sea was referred to as "Neptune" in #382), but I had completely forgotten that Venus appeared in that story as well.
I like GOTOG.
Thenk yew.
VENUS #19:
First Story: "The Kiss of Death!"
Mara's skeleton removes the flesh from his skull (in a scene similar to that depicted on the cover), while the three dead soldiers look on.
That is an excellent cover. In fact, Everett’s artwork here is the best so far. Maybe ever.
Evidently our dead friend was unaware that he was dead. (Not sure how that works.) But he says “I am the last one alive!” Um, no you’re not.
Second Story: "Demon from the Deep!"
Whit and Venus are aboard the luxury liner S.S. Castletown when a green slimy creature crawls aboard.
From his dialogue, here is another guy who doesn’t know he’s dead. I realized he was dead early on, but thought his death was sometime in the past. It takes time to turn into a green, slimy thing, doesn’t it?
Everett plays fast and loose with the ghost. Early in the story he’s tangible, as when he grabs Venus’ arm. Later, he is not, and that’s the impetus for discovering that he’s a ghost. (When he passes through Venus, he initially thinks she’s the ghost.) Once again, this isn’t playing fair with the reader. If the ghost had been intangible consistently, the answer would have presented itself earlier.
This isn’t the first time Everett has re-used an idea within the same book, or “cheated” on fair-play mystery. But the artwork is so good, that I don’t care.
Also, it strikes me that Everett always took more care with women’s fashions than most artists. Especially florid prints. What other artist would take such trouble with a complicated pattern panel after panel?
Third Story: "The Box of Doom!"
Working late one night, Venus receives a package. When she tries to open it up, the box glows eerily and offers her unlimited wealth and power.
A box that turns you into a vampire? Well, it’s Everett, and I’ll allow it. The box didn’t lie when it offered immortality and the ability to fly, walk through walls, shapeshift and control minds. These are all time-honored attributes of vampires.
I notice Whit doesn’t even make an appearance here, even though the story appears to take place at the Beauty offices. I like to think that if Venus continued, his last appearance would have been in “Demon from the Deep!”
Also, nowhere in this issue does Venus have any godly powers, or make reference to the gods. She is entirely human, with no defense against a ghost and nearly succumbing to the box. She expresses fear in a variety of ways and isn’t in control of the situation. (Any of them.) I suspect this entirely human Venus would have been the protagonist henceforth—had the book continued. It would have been a horror anthology, with the titular protagonist in the “girl in distress” role where one is in the plot.
POST-ATLAS VENUS:
Venus disappears from the public eye at this point, resurfacing several years later during the Eisenhower administration. By this time she has cultivated a professional relationship with FBI agent Jimmy Woo and is one of five obscure heroes "assembled" by Woo to become the "Avengers" of the 1950s. This team shared only one mission together, however, before being disbanded by President Eisenhower: "These are suspicious times, my friends. People find communists under their beds--and Martians in every weather balloon. A few simplistic souls even feel that comic books, and anything resembling comic book characters--such as yourselves--are responsible for every social ill. That's why I'm asking you to disband the Avengers... while I take measures to cover up the fact that you ever existed!"
Is this referring to the first Agents of Atlas miniseries (2006)? I’ve got that rattling around here somewhere. I’d love to have an omnibus of the Agents, but the best Marvel has offered so far is a comprehensive set of two trade paperbacks.
For the record, Marvel Wiki records this adventure (and all the Agents adventures) as happening in the 616. I like to think so, because I like Agents better than the First Line, so Agents takes place in my head canon.
Venus's next known (chronological) appearance is during the "Summer of Love" (which seems appropriate) during which she met Thor for the first time. They also teamed with Pixie and Makarri of the Eternals as well as other members of the First Line to defeat the villain known as Rumor. It is also revealed that she knew Effigy as far back as 1952.
I assume this is a reference to Marvel: The Lost Generation #5, which did NOT happen in my head canon. Marvel Wiki lists this one in the 616 as well.
SUB-MARINER #57:
Venus's actual first appearance since 1952 was Sub-Mariner #57, written and drawn by Bill Everett. In the intervening 20 years, Everett had only gotten better. By 1972, Venus had assumed the role of Victoria Nutley Starr, Professor of Humanities and one of Namorita's teachers. She is helping to organize the students' peaceful demonstrations against the war in Vietnam. As the story opens, Namor spots a woman who has been "cast upon a rocky pinnacle that was not there a moment ago," recalling her mythological origin (one of them, anyway). She is being pursued by her suitor, whom she refers to as "Lord Ares--or, as I sometimes dub him, Mars." She introduces herself as Venus, but admits that Ares "chooses to call me Aphrodite" (although, later in the story, she says, "Aphrodite? I am Venus!" Interestingly, Ares swears an oath "by the thunder of Thor--by the forge of the mighty Vulcan." Why would a Greek God invoke the names of gods from two different pantheons? I have an idea, but I will say that this reinforces my idea that Marvel's 1950s comic book version of Thor and Vulcan are one and the same.
I remember reading this one when it came out, but I knew so little about Venus’ 1950s adventures (I probably wasn’t aware of them) it didn’t stick with me. I had no reason to doubt her divinity at the time.
Venus displays a somewhat different power set this time out, including the ability to cast minor illusions and assume the form of a dolphin. As in the 1950s, she freely switches back-and-forth between her godlike and human personas. Also, it is her “Girdle of Cestus” which gives her the power of love over man or god, and without it she is defenseless. With the help of Namor, Venus fights Ares to a standstill, then sends him back to Olympus to “lay your sins before the almighty Zeus” (not Jupiter). As with Whitney Hammond in the ‘50s, Nita does not believe her humanities professor is really a goddess.
I’m starting to think so, too. The Marvel Wiki lists Victoria Nutley Starr as an alias used by the same naiad who was Venus in Agents of Atlas. Her non-siren powers are derived from an artificial source.
I’m beginning to think that as an alternative to GUTOG, or as a theory adjunct to it, that the Venus in Venus, Agents of Atlas and Sub-Mariner were all the same woman, who was NOT the Venus of myth, or an Eternal, but was instead, as revealed later, a siren whose power set could pass as the “goddess of love” occasionally, or used artificial aids.
Not being a real god, the events in Venus truly were threats to her. And her dalliance with Whitney Hammond wouldn’t bother the gods because she wasn’t one of them. She really could have married him, except “it’s not in my nature to settle down and be domestic.”
That doesn’t explain all the other gods, but that’s a bit of a hash anyway, isn’t it? With Loki and Thor and Satan and all? Perhaps they were Eternals. Or maybe just products of the naiad’s confused mind (she’s been amnesiac for some time).
THE CHAMPIONS #1-3:
By 1975 (real time), Professor of Humanities Victoria Nutley Starr was now teaching at UCLA. One day the campus is attacked by Harpies, Amazons and other creatures of myth looking for Venus. Hercules just happens to be there that day delivering a speech as a guest lecturer, Natasha Romanoff is there applying the the job of Russian language teacher, Warren Worthington and Bobby Drake are both students, and Johnny Blaze is there on an errand for a friend. They all get caught up defending Venus, and the villain is revealed to be Pluto.
Again, I don’t have to believe this is as proof Victoria is the real Venus. It could be explained that the woman had presented as Venus publicly, so when Pluto needed Venus, he went to get her. (Where is the real Venus/Aphrodite? Beats me.)
In this story, "Jupiter" is not mentioned, but Hercules is identified as Venus's cousin. Wouldn't that make Zeus her uncle? But aren't Zeus and Jupiter one and the same? (Don't worry; I've got this.)
Well, yeah. She’s not the genuine article.
Pluto's perfidy is revealed, Ares and Hypollyta turn against him, and Venus elects to remain in Olympus. (The last we see of her, she is walking up to Ares' side.) This story makes it pretty clear that Venus is an Olympian goddess, not a naiad, not a siren, not an Eternal.
Again, this only proves that Venus thinks she’s the real deal, and other divinities are taking her at her word. I’m going to keep my options open.
WHAT IF? #9:
In 1978 (real time), Iron Man calls a meeting of five very specific Avengers: himself, Captain America, Thor, Vision and the Beast. He has been experimenting with his own version of the dimensional transporter which brought the Squadron Supreme to Earth-616. He has discovered a group of "Avengers" (later to be known as the "Agents of Atlas") which banded together for a single mission in the 1950s, yet he his uncertain whether of not he is looking at the history of their Earth, or that of an alternate reality. He called these specific Avengers because he saw them as counterparts to the so-called "Avengers of the 1950s." Unbeknownst to any of them, however, their meeting is being observed the Watcher, and even he doesn't know whether or not Tony Stark's device is looking in on events of their own reality or those of a parallel world.
It's been a long time since I read this, so help me out here:
I know that they’re Iron Man and Captain America. But which is which and, moreover, why?
I loved how this was left open-ended. Was that the 1950s Avengers? Or was it another timeline? I chose to think it was canon, as nothing in it contradicted anything else I knew at the time. And it was a cool idea!
In 1999 (real time), the present-day Wasp and a Captain Marvel (Genis-Vel) from the future time-travel to an "imbalance point" in the space/time continuum, California in the year 1959, and discover that the "Avengers of the 1950s" did, indeed, remain together as a group for about six months prior to being disbanded by President Eisenhower. While they are there/then, reveal that Vice President Richard Nixon is being impersonated by a shape-shifting Skrull. In 2006 (real time), the "Avengers of the 1950s" are reformed as the "Agents of Atlas." I loved this series by Jeff Parker, but it is difficult to reconcile these characters (not only Venus, but all of the main characters to some extent) with their 1950s Atlas counterparts.
I don’t have any trouble! BTW, this story takes place on Earth-9904 (in Avengers Forever #4-5). Apocryphal for our purposes.
GIANT-SIZE AVENGERS #1:
The discrepancies are resolved (AFAIAC) in 2007's Giant-Size Avengers #1, also written by Jeff Parker. The "Marvel Adventures" line of comics takes place in an obviously different reality than Earth-616. An alternate timeline is created within that reality when, in 1958, Captain America is discovered frozen in ice by the Agents of Atlas, several years before he was supposed to have been by the Avengers.
So, apocryphal for our purposes. The appearance of the Agents here doesn’t mean that ALL of their adventures occurred here, any more than the presence of Captain America means all of HIS adventures occurred there. It is simply a different timeline, with some similarities to our own.
The groundwork had been laid as far back as 1978 that the events of What If #9 occurred in an alternate reality.
As noted, it was open-ended. I choose to believe What If #9 is canon, or is a story based on something that happened in the 616.
The endnotes of Avengers Forever refer to the team as being from a "possibly-alternate timeline"
Yes, Earth-9904. Doesn’t mean we didn’t have an Agents of Atlas. They were secret, after all.
And (again AFAIAC), Giant-Size Avengers #1 confirms it.
Which also happens in an alternative timeline. That doesn’t mean all the Agents’ adventures occurred there, or that something similar didn’t happen here. It’s not exclusive. What I’m saying is that just because some Agents stories happened elsewhere, that doesn’t mean that all of them did. Or that some version of those adventures ALSO happened in the 616, without whatever discrepancies might be there.
In the post-Atlas era, then, Sub-Mariner #57 and The Champions #1-3 occur on Earth-616, but most of What If #9 and the Agents of Atlas series both take place on "Earth-Atlas." (Agents of Atlas was mainly self-contained, but it may be assumed that any other heroes the Agents encountered during their adventures were actually natives of their own Earth.)
I’m going to assume something else. That Venus #1-19, Sub-Mariner #57, Champions #1-3, What If #9 and all the Agents of Atlas series starred the naiad who thought she was Venus. A lot of other people, including Pluto, thought she was Venus, too. Doesn’t make it so.
Where is the real Venus? I dunno. If an Aphrodite ever appeared in some other context, maybe in a crowd shot on Olympus in some random issue of Thor, that might be her. Or maybe Hephaestus has her locked up, to keep her from her philandering ways. Or maybe she doesn’t give a hoot about Earth and hasn’t visited since the Trojan War. (Which she started—she was pretty selfish and unlikable in the myths.)
Am I right? Probably not. Is my theory free of holes? Nope. But it's the way I prefer to remember it!
I hate that Agents of Atlas is not canon in the 616.
I loved that series (those series).
Is this referring to the first Agents of Atlas miniseries (2006)?
No, that's What If #9.
I’d love to have an omnibus of the Agents, but the best Marvel has offered so far is a comprehensive set of two trade paperbacks.
Marvel did offer a HC of the original mini-series (which included the original first appearances of the characters and What If #9), but yeah, a single-edition omnibus would be sweet.
(I probably wasn’t aware of them)
Ah, but you were! In an earlier post you referenced one of her early adventures being reprinted in Marvel Spotlight #2, and Sub-Mariner #57 footnotes that very issue.
The Marvel Wiki lists Victoria Nutley Starr as an alias used by the same naiad who was Venus in Agents of Atlas.
Jeff Parker established the same thing. I cannot recolcile the goddess Venus of Sub-Mariner, Champions and Avengers with the naiad Venus of Agents of Atlas, but there's no reason they "both" couldn't have used the same alias.
I’m beginning to think that as an alternative to GUTOG, or as a theory adjunct to it, that the Venus in Venus, Agents of Atlas and Sub-Mariner were all the same woman, who was NOT the Venus of myth, or an Eternal, but was instead, as revealed later, a siren whose power set could pass as the “goddess of love” occasionally, or used artificial aids.
I considered that. (That's certainly Marvel's official take.)
Again, this only proves that Venus thinks she’s the real deal, and other divinities are taking her at her word.
Yeah, but wouldn't the other gods know?
It's been a long time since I read this, so help me out here:
According too Don Glut (who wrote the script)...
CAPTAIN AMERICA: Those 1950s Avengers weren't so different from us. Maybe the 3-D man was stronger and quite a bit faster than the old super-soldier formula made me--but, in many ways, such as our fighting styles, we were a lot alike.
IRON MAN: And how about Marvel Boy? Did that wrist laser beam of his remind anybody of a certain modern-day Avenger's repulsor rays?
(It's a bit of a stretch, I admit.)
Also, while I'm thinking of it, Jann of the Jungle also made a cameo appearance in What If #9 (she helped Marvel Boy locate Gorilla Man), and at one point Thor said, "Verily, though Venus be known to me, the others on yonder screen remain unfamiliar."
BTW, this story takes place on Earth-9904 (in Avengers Forever #4-5). Apocryphal for our purposes.
Yeah, that timeline was destroyed in that story, now that you mention it.
The appearance of the Agents here doesn’t mean that ALL of their adventures occurred here
True, but it was written by Jeff Parker, who also wrote Agents of Atlas. Besides, it fits my "alternate universe" theory.
I choose to believe What If #9 is canon, or is a story based on something that happened in the 616.
I will concede that What If #9 took place in the 616, but I'm having a heard time reconciling Agents of Atlas... and not just because of Venus (but that's another discussion for another time).
What I’m saying is that just because some Agents stories happened elsewhere, that doesn’t mean that all of them did.
No, I get it.
If an Aphrodite ever appeared in some other context, maybe in a crowd shot on Olympus in some random issue of Thor, that might be her.
See Avengers #283 (p.12).
Is my theory free of holes? Nope.
Ha! I misread that as, "Is my theory full of holes? Nope."
This was fun.
-
8
-
9
-
10
-
11
-
12
of 12 Next