Being in a patriotic mood today, I decided to read Ess it ential Captain America Vol 1 together with Essential Avengers Vol 1 and came up with some queries about the Star-Spangled Avenger so:
- We all know about Cap's "return" in Strange Tales #114 battling the Human Torch. I theorized that it wasn't so much a tryout but a way to refamilarize readers with the concept of Cap before actually reintroducing the character. IIRC, Johnny sees "Cap" advertised to make an appearance at a car show yet it's never "Cap is back after all these years" which unknowingly gives credence to the retcons of the THREE other Caps that appeared in the late 40s and mid 50s. "Cap" is simply out of retirement again. Yet when the real Cap returns in Avengers #4, it is heralded by the public as a near-religious resurrection. Cap was gone twenty years, believed to be dead. Yet no one was surprised by his Strange Tales comeback, not even Johnny who at the end of the story wondered where the real Cap was and if he would ever return. So taking to two stories combined with the 70s revisions, does that mean that the people of the Marvel Universe now know there was a government cover-up to deceive them that Captain America was still alive? Not once but thrice?
- When exactly did Cap's shield become indestructible? Not just tough and durable but actually described as unbreakable? His shield was gimmicked by Iron Man with magnetic devices and was given a fliptop but it was always stated that it was his original shield. In Tales of Suspense #62, Cap says he "threw away all of Iron Man's magnetic gimmicks! They ruined (his) shield's delicate balance!" Not that he had a hi-tech shield and went back to his first one. Roy Thomas even destroyed it in one of his early Avengers stories!
- Was Cap super-human? Marvel always claimed no but he was frozen for twenty years with no brain damage and still in peak condition! That has to count as a super-power! Combined that with his strength, speed and agility, can Cap really be regarded as a "normal" man?
- It has been confirmed that Cap's memories were repressed after his thawing, which is why he didn't remember the Sub-Mariner (whose own memory was foggy, too!). Yet he remembered Zemo, the Red Skull, even "Der Tag". He seemed to recall a lot about the war, so when did he regain all of his memory? After The Invaders was published?
- Did Cap ever reconnect with people from his past (family, friends, war buddies)? It was only twenty years. It's not like everyone he ever known was dead already!
- Why and how did Cap assume responsibilty for Rick Jones? Was that even legal? Where did Rick live in New York? In Avengers Mansion? Did he really look like Bucky? Did anyone else (Nick Fury, Dum Dum Duggan, Peggy Carter) think so? And why would Iron Man nominate Rick for the Avengers in the first place?
- About Rick, after he left in Avengers #16, he returned to the Hulk in Tales To Astonish. How did he team up with Cap again during the Steranko period? He never appeared with Cap during his run in Tales of Suspense.
- I could probably do one of these threads about the Falcon but I'll just ask this: How old is Redwing? He's been around for over forty years! That bird must have superpowers of his own!
- Reality question: When Jack Kirby helped revive his co-creation, Captain America, did he tell Joe Simon? He must have known that Carl Burgos and Bill Everett weren't happy that he co-opted their characters for Fantastic Four. He saw Cap once again become a success with toys, merchandise and a cartoon series (such as it was). Did he consider Joe Simon and his rights? I'll answer that: No he didn't. And why not? Because that's not how it was done back then! No matter what we think or feel NOW, THEN Jack and Stan did nothing wrong. That's how the business was, and in many ways, still is.
Thanks in advance! Meanwhile report any suspicious people to your local super-hero! (TEN POINTS to anyone who gets THAT reference and yes, it relates to Cap!)
Replies
Was Cap super-human?
Oh sure, open up that can of worms...
Some people think that no, he's not at all. He's not the slightest bit super-human, all that Professor Erskine's serum did was raise him to his peak potential.
Personally, I believe that if nothing else, Cap has super-stamina. I believe that he can outlast any baseline human being no matter what physical condition they might be in. It's why I think Steve Rogers would defeat Bruce Wayne in a fight because while I think they're evenly matched in terms of skill and ability, I think Wayne would weary much earlier.
Of course, Cap did develop super-strength for a while in the 70's, but that was temporary.
How old is Redwing?
If you consider Marvel time (meaning that the beginning of the Marvel universe was "twelve years ago"), Redwing is in fact pretty old for a falcon. Assuming two years before Cap met Sam Wilson after being revived, Redwing would have to be at least 11 years old, I'm not finding what I could call definitive information (at least not with a cursory search of the internet), but apparently assuming a falcon survives it's first year of existence,
the average lifespan is 12-15 years.
Of course, I believe Redwing is considered a mutant, so who knows?
Why and how did Cap assume responsibilty for Rick Jones?
Do you mean guardianship, or just hanging out as a mentor? If I recall correctly, Rick showed up before Cap and just hung out with the Avengers for a while. By this time, Rick may have been 18 and a legal adult. Therefore, if the Avengers didn't mind him hanging out, I can't think of any particular liability in terms of his presence. Yes, Cap was training Rick at Rick's request (once again, IIRC) but wasn't he also training the Teen Brigade and anyone else connected to the Avengers who wanted it?
For that matter of fact, what was Bucky's actual age? Is it possible that by the time he became Bucky that he'd had his eighteenth birthday?
Did he have super-strength that time he broke that chain while tied up on teh Roxxon boat by Batroc and Mr Hyde?
Do we know how Carl Burgos and Bill Everett felt about the use of Huaman Torch and Sub-mariner in the 60s?
Or Simon about the resurgant Cap?
Regarding Joe Simon, at the time I imagine he wasn't thrilled, but it was business as usual at that time for the industry. Unless a creator somehow retained rights to his character (e.g. Bob Kane, William Marston) I'm assuming that most sold their creations outright to the companies that published them, just like Siegel and Shuster.
"How did he team up with Cap again during the Steranko period? He never appeared with Cap during his run in Tales of Suspense."
In reverse order... Rick certainly DID appear in a few of the earliest SUSPENSE episodes (tyhe ones before they started the "WW2 flashback" stories). By the time the CAP series resumed present-day stories, The Avengers line-up had changed, and even before that, Rick was back with The Hulk.
As for CAP #110... read the comic!!! Cap ran across The Hulk going n a rampage in NYC, Rick was there, yelling for people to stay back, a building collapsed, Cap Saved Rick's life (*Rick got knocked out in the rubble). When Rick woke up he was in Avengers' Mansion, happened to find Bucky's uniform, and put it on. Cap FLIPPED out!! "No-- take OFF that uniform! NO one must ever wear it again! I can NEVER have another partner-- I won't be responsible for..." Rick responded by telling Cap to KNOCK that crap off (not in those words of course). After several years worth of comics of Cap putting Rick off (because Stan didn't like kid sidekicks), Jim Steranko (a huge fan of Jack Kirby's early-40's work) finally got them together.
Much of CAP #110, 111 & 113 was a tribute to a story in CAP #10 (no kidding!!), "Spy Ambush".
However, Stan pissed Jim off, Jim left, and as soon as the dust settled, Stan had John Romita give Rick the boot.
But then The Falcon came along... and after all those histrionics concerning Sharon Carter (out of NOWHERE, Steve deciding on his own, "We HAVE to break up! I can't put her life at risk!" I must NEVER have another partner again!"), eventualkly, Cap & The Falcon did become partners.
I was just joking a few days ago about how Frederic Wertham might have had a field day, over the idea that Cap preferred the company of a muscular black man to that of a gorgeous blonde woman. : )
My understanding is Joe Simon and Jack Kirby made a special deal with Martin Goodman over Captain America, and left Marvel for DC because they believed he wasn't living up to his end of the deal. In the 60s Simon brought a lawsuit against Marvel and reached a settlement. Late in his life he brought another lawsuit against Marvel, my recollection is successfully.
Carl Burgos reportedly likewise brought a lawsuit against Marvel in the 60s over the Human Torch, but my knowledge of the same doesn't extend beyond what is said on the page on Burgos at Wikipedia. He drew the "Human Torch" story in Strange Tales #123.
I don't know how Bill Everett felt about the Sub-Mariner's revival, but he'd previously been involved with the revival of the Sub-Mariner in the 50s. In the 60s he drew the Sub-Mariner's feature in Tales to Astonish ##87-91, 94-96, according to the GCD. (He also drew the first issue of Daredevil, and inked Jack Kirby's pencils on Thor for a time.) In the 70s he wrote and drew Sub-Mariner ##50-55, 57 and continued to contribute to the series up to #61 (for which he drew the opening pages) or #63 (in which he was given a writing credit).
I don't know exactly how Bill Everett or Joe Simon felt but Carl Burgos wasn't happy that there was a Human Torch in Fantastic Four, even though he later worked for Marvel but never on the Torch. He may have sued them or tried to which is why they did Fantastic Four Annual #4 briefly reviving the Original Human Torch to solidify Marvel's copyright to him. Combined with the reprints in Fantasy Masterpieces/Marvel Super-Heroes and the sequel to FF Annual #4 in Sub-Mariner #14, it looked like Marvel tried to close the book on the OHT and Toro but they came back in The Invaders and never really went away for long.
As for Rick, when Iron Man wanted to nominate him for Avengers membership, Cap said no and that would be HIS (Cap's) decision to make. Again, why does everyone including Rick go along with this?
And you're right and wrong, Henry. Rick only appeared once in Tales of Suspense #60. Of course when Rick finally reappeared in The Avengers he had joined (literally) with Captain Marvel!
And the entire time Stan and Jack did Cap's feature, they emphasized Cap's "no powers" but always had him do thing no person could do. If he had "super-powers", it was the ability to maintain peak effiency with minimal effort. True, he trained but not like say, Doc Savage did but then Doc only had superior genes, not the Super Soldier Formula. Speaking of which, how do we know that it didn't mutate Cap into something more than human?
No matter how you look at it, Redwing is an old bird!
I believe Bill Everett inked Kirby in only one Thor issue...either #143 or 144 as I recall. It's the high point of the Enchanters saga. It looks different from what we were used to. I'm not sure why he was tapped to do it. There had been three one-shot stand alone stories before they started that Enchanter story arc and I'm not sure if it was pre-shadowed or the thread teased or not. (Frankly, I loved the Growing Man story in #140 and the Super-Skrull single in 141.
"involved with"
Bill Everett wrote & illustrated all the episodes of SUB-MARINER that he was "involved with" in the 50's.
In the 60's, he created DAREDEVIL and wrote & illustrated the 1st episode, before his advertising agency commitments prevented him going further with it. (Matt Murdock being blind was inspired by Everett's daughter, who had trouble with her vision.)
Everett also wrote & illustrated SUB-MARINER in ASTONISH, though Stan Lee did the dialogue (as he had on D.D. and countless other books).
Beginning with SUB-MARINER #50, Everett regained control of his character, writing & illustrating, and acting as de facto editor (as MANY Marvel writers did at the time). He reruited Mike Friedrich to help with dialogue on a few issues (Friedrich was wrongly credited with plotting the stories in those issues, a common problem with Marvel). In addition, there was Alan Weiss, Dan Adkins, Sam Kweskin, Steve Gerber, Syd Shores, Howard Chaykin, Joe Sinnott... it is notable that after Everett passed away, the creative line-up consisted of artists like Don Heck, John Romita (on covers), George Tuska... all solid, dependable people, but not of the same caliber as those seen when Everett was in charge.
I'm always seeing fans under-estimating some of the creators at Marvel, downplaying their contributions by referring to them as "artists", when it was OFTEN far, far more than that.
That's an interesting point about FF Annual #4 and the appearance of the Original Human Torch. I thought maybe it was done to keep the character separate from Johnny Storm, who was on-going.
But considering how seminal that issue has become, spawning the origin for the Vision and multiple time-travel variation, it's a pretty damn important issue all around!
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