Now that the show has debuted, what are your thoughts?

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Captain Comics said:

I'm less enamored of Selina's heel turn. I kept expecting her to slip back and free Gordon, but no. She's crossed the line from petty theft to accessory to attempted murder. Her behavior isn't "gray" any more, nor can her youth excuse her. She's committing grown-up criminal acts, like holding a gun on police officers and helping in their planned execution. Her next meeting with Jim shouldn't be cordial.

Selina defenestrated Alfred's ex-colleague with no qualms whatsoever, indicating she'd killed before or was a sociopath.

Captain Comics said:

Jada Pinkett-Smith's loud denials doesn't really preclude another contract bringing her back. If popularity warrants.

What loud denials? Every source I can find refers back to this TV interview, in which she says she "doesn't think" she'll be back in season two and "only signed for one year". She also said how much she enjoyed playing the character. Everybody should actually watch the video to get a feel for her actual mood. I don't think it would take much to get her back if they wanted her.

If you turn up the volume on your browser it's a pretty loud denial.

She said it on several interviews, at least, essentially saying, "I signed up for a year and the year is up--but there's great stuff coming!"

I take it to mean she wants to go on to do other things without the commitment but doesn't want to burn any bridges. So she could be back if she finds she misses it (or doesn't get so many better offers) or she can be talked into a short arc for some reason, and the writers left that door open.

Frankly, she was working as a personal nemesis for Penguin, but as a scheming, calculating mastermind, I wasn't seeing it. She mostly seemed lucky and ready to betray anyone to help herself. She needs a little more quirkiness to really fit in. Maybe if a shark eats her leg and she gets it replaced with a machine gun. I'm sure there are sharks in Gotham Bay, it seems like there would be.

They should have had Selina defenestrate Reggie onto a ledge (or something she knew was there) that put him into a coma or gave him a concussion or something to make any story he told seem delusional. That would be  more fitting with her cunnning. This way makes no sense in the bigger picture. She's a murderer and Bruce knows it. That's harder to overlook just because she's got a skintight leather suit with a slippery zipper.

-- MSA

For what it's worth, it looked to me like Selina killed Reggie to protect Bruce, which made it a bit more forgivable than if she had done it for spite, revenge, or profit, and it was clear that Bruce had been strongly tempted to do the same thing before Seline took care of it, so he may have been more relieved that she took care of it before he had to commit to the choice either way than appalled by her actions.

As for Selina's cold-bloodedness, I get the impression that this version of Selina hides her emotions as a survival skill, so she seemed unaffected by her action, but for all we know, she puked her guts out in revulsion as soon as no one was looking.  Or, it could just be bad writing...

Or, as Lucy Lawless said in the Simpsons, whenever errors in continuity happen in a script they just say "A wizard did it."

I should have made my point about Selina more clear, in that what I meant was that her relationship with Gordon would necessarily change, not that she hadn't done bad things prior to the season finale. Of course she's done bad things before, but Gordon didn't know about them, and he was genearlly acting as a protector/father figure to her. That will necessarily change.

And for what it's worth, I interpreted Selina's murder of Reggie to be in protection of Bruce, not for cold-blooded fun or profit. That doesn't excuse it, but it does put a more sympathetic slant on it.

I realized that the idea was that Bruce might have killed Reggie and Selina stepped in to do it so he wouldn't have that on his conscience. But it would've been better if she'd coolly stepped in and found another solution that satisfied the concern (which turned out to be negligible anyway). That seems more Selina-like.

I'm less concerned about her changed relationship with Gordon--she can claim she was coerced, she can trade him looking the other way for some favor, she can threaten a member of his family if he comes after her--than with Batman, who knows she's a murderer.

-- MSA

“Is there an established comics villain that Barbara could become?”

I was thinking Magpie, too… for the reasons Craig mentioned, but also she’s a virtual blank slate.

She might become TV’s Harlequin, too… different back story from the comics, but she’s certainly screwy enough.

It was killing me staying away from this thread, but the episode sat on my DVR for a week until I could watch it last night. I also found Selina's transformation the hardest to believe. It just seemed too radical a change, even given that Fish is supposed to be charismatic. Sure was a shock about Maroni, though: didn't see that coming.

I agree that the door is open for Fish to return. Not only did we not see a body, but she's also already proven to be extremely hard to kill! I thought she was a goner when she was shot during the helicopter escape from the island.

From Entertainment Weekly, Ben Mackenzie pledges they've worked out the kinks in Gotham and will be better next season:  

"Ben McKenzie talks where Gotham went wrong, and how season 2 is ex...

Boy, I don't agree with that assessment at all, I think it might even be backwards. I think Gotham went the most wrong when it stretched out its plots over many episodes with no satisfying resolution. Maybe it's the latter part of that assessment more than the former part that was the problem, and they'll resolve that.

I thought there was far too much of Penguin betraying both Falcone and Maroni back and forth for either one to trust him well past when they still were. Bruce and Selina were cute running away once, but that got boring, too, especially the long-form Breaking Into Wayne Enterprises, which ended with Bruce opening an empty safe and being scolded by the grown-up. Oooh, scary. The Fish Mooney long-play adventure in the second half went nowhere interesting (as well as being implausible in her instant ability to take over and lead the group by offering up a few to be killed at random and living upstairs with the captors/killers, let alone her turning Selina into a gun moll).

I've never been a big fan of the drawn-out overarching story arcs for the most part. I disliked the "Where is my sister" episodes of X-Files, and Smallville did best when it gave us something more than the Indian cave, etc. Not everyone may feel that way.

Flash did a pretty good job of inserting the longer story arc into each episode, but those often progressed the plot significantly rather than just add more looming to the menace. The great thing about Flash was that it really clipped along while introducing a good rogues gallery that returned a few times.

I understand that Freak-of-the-Week stuff can get to have a sameness to it, but creating longer story arcs where less happens each week isn't the way to go. I hung on all last season, although it was the last superhero show I got to each week.

This year, with Legends and Supergirl added into the mix, Gotham needs to step up its game to keep me coming back. Introducing a few more villains and moving the plots along faster, even if it's just a little bit each week, will be a big help. But having even less resolution of anything each week doesn't seem the way to go, IMO.

-- MSA

Part of the problem with Gotham is that much of what it's intended to set up won't really be resolved until Batman shows up to resolve it, and I'd guess that won't happen for roughly ten years.  They're fine if they stick with "proto-super-villains", like Fish or the Ogre, but if the GCPD has managed to handle more fully formed versions of the Riddler or the Scarecrow before Bruce Wayne's even out of middle school, why would they need Batman?  On the other hand, if week after week they can't handle the menace, who's going to keep watching the show?  It's not like any of us believe that it will stay on the air until the kid playing Bruce is old enough to become Batman.  It might be fun to do an arc with a proto-super-hero vigilante, someone like the Reaper/Phantasm, or even a "real" version of the Grey Ghost.



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