'One World Under Doom'

Rob Staeger (Grodd Mod) February 11, 2025 at 2:42pm

I'm interested! I'm planning on reading One World Under Doom and Fantastic Four during the crossover, and might be tempted to pick up another tie-in here or there if I hear it's worthwhile.

Captain Comics February 11, 2025 at 3:54pm

I'm getting One World Under Doom "live" from my LCS and the crossovers in monthly shipments from Westfield. So I'll always be a little behind on those. If you wan to jump in early with FF, feel free!

Captain Comics February 16, 2025 at 6:25pm

ONE WORLD UNDER DOOM #1 (OF 9, MARVEL, $5.99) is by Ryan North and R.B. Silva.

This is ... exactly what I wanted.

How does Doom conquer the world? First, all of Earth's leaders bend the knee. (The Avengers suspect mind control, but ... well, I don't really have any trouble believing it.) The flag of "United Laveria" flies above all nations, including at the White House. Then, he dazzles us with magnanimity: His first act is to outlaw war and inequality. That's followed by universal health care and education. And THAT'S followed by bringing Hydra to heel, making them build hospitals and clear land mines.

And I have to mention Doom's "peers": The Red Skull and Baron Zemo. Doom's got a plan for them, too, and points out that they are problems "that Earth's 'mightiest' heroes have been trying — and failing — to solve since World War II." It hurts because it's true. Of course Doom doesn't let little things like ethics and morals and laws stand in the way, so he's got a bit of an advantage. And how Doom neuters Hydra is ... interesting.

Of course, Earth's mightiest aren't taking this lying down — the taunts or the world-conquering thing. The Avengers, the Fantastic Four and even Squirrel Girl tackle both Hydra and Doom, with battle cries on their lips and strategy in their pocket. Is Doom ready for that? Heh. He's Doctor Doom, written to the level Stan and Jack set in the '60s. What do you think?

I loved every minute of this. Everybody acted in character, and nobody's carrying the Idiot Ball. Silva gets everybody right (no small thing, as he has a lot of bodies to get right), and the action scenes are cool. Right now Doom's holding all the cards — he has been thinking about this for a long time — and I have no idea what the good guys can do. But you know they're not going to take this lying down, nor should they. Even if it costs us universal health care.

Whatever's next, North and Silva have me hooked. They've set a high standard for the tie-ins and miniseries, so fingers crossed.

Luis Olavo de Moura Dantas > Captain Comics February 16, 2025 at 9:10pm

It was certainly an engaging first issue. A couple of references to important events in recent issues that I had not read, but they do not seem to be impediments.

The heroes are competent, well organized, determined... and Doom still ran a circle around them, although I think his achievements are more fragile than he realizes right now. He is certainly taking a big step in presenting himself as pretty much a literal world savior. He really can't fill the shoes he is attempting to, and it will be interesting to see how and when he realizes that and how he deals with the consequences.

For some reason I feel that Doctor Strange is not showing all his cards. From what I remember, Silva makes him appear rather young. From appearances in "Hellverine" and "Spider-Man" it is clear that Stephen is far from helpless despite having lost the mantle of Sorcerer Supreme, but much about the specifics is still unclear and perhaps in flux.

Is anyone else reminded of Spawn when you see Doom's logo?
Captain Comics > Luis Olavo de Moura Dantas February 17, 2025 at 12:46am

As far as I can tell, that logo first appeared in 2001. So it could have been inspired by the Spawn logo. That usually goes the other way, so I dunno.

I know what you mean by references. Clearly the 2024 Thunderbolts has bearing, but as you say, North tells us pretty much all we need to know so it's not crucial.

As for Doctor Strange, he's not powerless. But he has been weakened, and doesn't have the Cloak of Levitation, the Eye of Agammoto, etc. But we already know his plan: He's going to learn Asgardian magic!

in the meantime, I expect things will get worse before they get better. Doom's clearly thought this through.
Luis Olavo de Moura Dantas > Captain Comics February 17, 2025 at 2:12am

Stephen is using his first amulet, the square-shaped blue piece named "the Amulet of Agamotto", which he used (inconsistently) up until the time when he received the Eye of Agamotto, shortly after first meeting Clea ("Strange Tales" #110-127).

Since both the Eye of Agamotto and the Cloak of Levitation are now with Doom, I assume that Stephen is also using his previous (also blue) cloak for the time being.

Captain Comics February 17, 2025 at 2:03pm

Stephen is using his first amulet, the square-shaped blue piece named "the Amulet of Agamotto", which he used (inconsistently) up until the time when he received the Eye of Agamotto, shortly after first meeting Clea ("Strange Tales" #110-127).

According to today's official Marvel lore -- I don't think they were necessarily thinking about any of this in the Strange Tales days, so it's all retroactive -- The Ancient One was the Sorcerer Supreme during Strange's rise*, and even though Strange sported the Cloak of Levitation (Strange Tales #127, 1964) and the Eye of Agamotto (Strange Tales #127 again), symbols of the Sorcerer Supreme's office, it was by the official blessing of the ACTUAL Sorcerer Supreme, The Ancient One. Now it is canon that Strange became de facto Sorcerer Supreme when The Ancient One died to defeat Shuma-Gorath in Marvel Premiere #10 (1973). Sometime after that, but before the first time Strange referred to himself as Sorcerer Supreme (whenever that was), we have to place Doctor Strange & Doctor Doom: Triumph and Torment (1989), where Strange was officially awarded the title by the Vishanti. The story never gives a year for when it occurred, but we can assume 1973 or 1974. Heck, it may have taken place immediately after Marvel Premiere #10, for all we know.

* The Ancient One was the Sorcerer Supreme off and on from the 1450s to 1973. We have to say "off and on," as we've had numerous stories where other people claimed to be the Sorcerer Supreme during that time period, including Hiram Shaw in 1692 (X-Men: Hellfire Club #1, 1999), Isaac Newton in the early 18th century (Doctor Strange and the Sorcerer Supremes #5, 2017) and Nina the Conjurer (Doctor Strange and the Sorcerers Supreme #1, 2016).

Strange has reverted to the old amulet and cloak at least twice before that I remember, when he lost the title to Doctor Voodoo (New Avengers, 2009) and Loki (Doctor Strange, 2018). The Amulet of Agamotto is obviously of lesser power than the Eye, and I don't think the blue cloak can fly. And I wonder how many of the other objects of power in the Sanctum Sanctorum are now properly Doom's, like the Orb of Agamotto and the Wand of Watoomb. Heck, does Strange lose his cool window?

I'm not really clear on how much of a power boost you get when you become Sorcerer Supreme (or how much power you lose when you lose the title), but it's not nothing. In One World Under Doom #1, Scarlet Witch, when confronted with a Doom-summoned barrier, says it's "Sorcerer Supreme magic" and it would take her weeks to even weaken it. So it doesn't surprise me that Strange's plan is to go to a different dimension altogether (Asgard) and learn a different kind of magic -- and possibly become Sorcerer Supreme there. Then he could battle Doom as an equal.

Circling back to Doom's logo, he had a variety of them in the Kirby days and for two decades after, mainly stylized D's, demon/dragon wings and/or eagles. The first appearance of the current logo, as far as I can find, is the first issue of Doom: The Emperor Returns #1 (2001).

That was nine years after Spawn was created, although I don't know when his symbol was first used. It looks like this: I don't think they look enough alike to worry about it. The current Doom symbol seems, to me anyway, to be continuing the dragon-wing motif created by Kirby, which precedes Spawn by three decades. Here are some Kirby pages, with various symbols on walls and chairs. Note the repeated use of demons, dragons, eagles and wings.

Luis Olavo de Moura Dantas > Captain Comics February 17, 2025 at 2:34pm

Just to clarify, I don't think they are similar enough to motivate legal concerns or anything. I just see a resemblance.

According to this Brazilian page, Spawn's circular logo debuted in his own title in #166 (2007), but goes back to (at least) "Curse of the Spawn #15" in late 1997.

https://spawnbrasil.com.br/evolucao-logo-spawn/

Incidentally, research Spawn for this reason in the last few days I learned that Spawn wears is not exactly a costume, but rather a "neural parasite" with a name ("K7-Leetha"). It is sometimes said to be symbiotic instead of fully parasitic, and the Image Comics Fandom article on erstwhile Spawn James Downing even calls K7-Leetha a "symbiote" several times.

https://imagecomics.fandom.com/wiki/James_Downing

I should not be surprised. Sorry for straying so far off-topic.

A evolução do logo do Spawn através das décadas - Spawn Brasil

Aqui no site já falamos da evolução do traje do Spawn [leia neste artigo que publicamos], então porque não relembrarmos os muitos designs que o logo…

Captain Comics February 20, 2025 at 5:39pm

Before starting this thread, my research said that Doom had appeared twice before in Ryan North's Fantastic Four, so I resolved to read those two appearances to adjudge his handling of the character (and read the other issues as well, to see how he handles the rest of the ensemble). I've now read Fantastic Four (latest series) #1-7, and #7 is Doom's first appearance in the title (and supposedly it's issue #700 as well).

And I am not disappointed.

This is really a Doctor Doom story, and he is handled just as I'd expect him to be handled. He's even introduced playing the piano, having already won the fight before it even started. (A very Doom thing to do.) The tune he is playing is Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No. 2 in C Minor, which I will now forever think of as The Doctor Doom Theme Song. And Googling it taught me a few things, like how it was llifted for two Frank Sinatra songs ("I Think of You," "Full Moon and Empty Arms") and one Eric Carmen song ("All By Myself").

With as few spoilers as possible, I'll say that Doom is presented with a problem that he keeps failing at, which utterly baffles him. The reason why is obvious, but his ego blinds him to it. It's great fun watching Victor bang his head against the wall, because he is who he is. Just about anybody else would see the issue for what it was (including the reader), but Doom cannot, because to do so would be to accept his own fallibility. So he can't. As Alicia says later in the story, "That poor man. I think he's pitiable. ... I think he's his own worst enemy, that's all." That's it in a nutshell.

Best Doom quote: "Doom does not place himself beneath a mere God."

P.S.: Doom refers to Valeria as his goddaughter, and as Richards' daughter. I don't think he'd do that if the convoluted origin was still in play, and he was her biological father.

Captain Comics February 21, 2025 at 2:34pm

I’m now caught up to Fantastic Four #14, so I can comment on Doctor Doom’s second pre-“One World Under Doom” appearance in Ryan North’s run on the book.

Doom doesn’t appear much in issue #12, but he’s clearly moving in the background of the main story. The A-plot is about the FF investigating strange lights on a farm, which turn out to be a portal to another dimension — foreshadowing an incursion. (Y’all know what an incursion is in Marvel-speak, right? Right.)

The FF get sucked into the portal and lo, they’re on a planet where dinosaurs never became extinct, and mammals never evolved. The people of that world are exactly like the people of our world, except for being dinosaurs.

I didn’t bat an eye at this, which is pretty standard for parallel-world stories. I mean, I know it’s preposterous, but look at Dark Matter as an example of how parallel-world fiction takes for granted the concept of exact duplicates. Refreshingly, Ryan North thinks it’s preposterous, too, so he explains that other dimensions become more similar to our own the closer they are in extra-dimensional space. Well, OK. It's still not really plausible, given how many minute variations could occur through history, but I'll allow it.

The story in #13 has Doom as the protagonist. The splash reads “Doctor Doom in ‘A Thing or Two’” That’s not precisely true — there are lot of scenes without Doom, and are not Doom-dependent — but it tells you where North’s mind is. Which is to say, this is the second time that when Doom is in the book, it’s presented as Doctor Doom Comics & Stories.

This issue is important, because it introduces T-Rex Doom. He’s exactly like our Doom, except he’s a dinosaur. You can imagine how the story will end, with those two gigantic egos in the same room. But that ending — the two Dooms at odds — doesn’t hold up, since T-Rex shows up in One World Under Doom #1 as an ally, prompting Ben to say that this issue didn’t end the way the FF (and the audience) thought it did. That explanation will be forthcoming, no doubt.

Best Doom quote: “I suggest you return to your chalet or satellite or defiled corpse or wherever it is you have your little clubhouse meetings these days.”

I actually prefer the insults Doom delivers with excruciating condescension, instead of this sort of naked jab. But I like the “defiled corpse” line about the time the Avengers were headquartered in a dead Celestial, which I thought was kinda creepy.

Meanwhile …

I’m reading the entire Ryan North run of Fantastic Four to see how he handles the whole ensemble, instead of just Doom. (Although Doom is the main draw.) And he’s been working on the others. Some notes:

I don’t normally think of Arizona as having farms, but the FF are living on one, and visit another, and they’re both very green. So I Googled, and yep, Arizona has a lot of farms. All I had known about Arizona I had gleaned from pictures I see of Phoenix, which is located in the Sonoran Desert. Turns out there’s more to the state than picturesque badlands.
Johnny and Sue are shown to experimenting and practicing with their powers to avoid doing the usual, that Sue refers to as a ”go-to.” This helps explain why she can do an entire invisible jet in One World Under Doom #1. Johnny, for his part, has developed an ability to form long-term flame copies of himself (like Iceman) and other complicated forms.
Reed Richards is showing more experimentation with his powers, too. One issue showed him extending stalks with eyes from his body to explore the inner workings of a machine.
I am encouraged by this, as it demonstrates that North is as aware as other longtime FF readers that the book has stagnated mightily, especially the main four, whose powers are basically second tier now. (Except for Sue.) They need a power boost to keep up with the Joneses.
I don’t know what form of power-push you can do for Ben, but he does acquire a dog named Princess. A West Highland terrier, I think.
For the first 14 issues of the series I’ve read, the various kids have been off-panel in a time jump. I think this is Ryan’s way of focusing on the core group before expanding to include the kids, who will naturally grab the spotlight. They return in issues I already have, but have not yet read. In your reality, they’re already back!
Alicia is much more integrated into the group. On occasion her narrative utility is so "writer’s fiat" as to elicit a groan, but her presence as a personality is much appreciated by this reader.
North establishes that Sue always has a mild force field “on” all the time, which is what I would do if I had her powers (or Green Lantern’s ring). I have thought this since I was the Li’l Capn, and lo, North has finally made it so.
North also directly tackled a complaint I’ve had since I was a kid, which is that the Human Torch is virtually useless against human foes. (And inhuman foes that are flame-proof.) As one opponent says, Johnny only has two settings: 0 and 100. Nothing in between. So he either incinerates his foe, or does nothing to them. Al he can do, therefore, is threaten, and if his foes know he won’t harm them, it’s a bluff. And a guy in issue #3 calls his bluff. I won’t tell you the details, but Johnny wins without violating these ground rules. For some reason, it reminded me of his old Strange Tales series.
We meet Aunt Petunia again, and she’s much more appropriately aged than in the Byrne run. I am glad of this.
North does his homework. Miracle Man (from Fantastic Four #3) makes a return appearance, and is more effective than usual. And a character named Xargorr appears, who stayed behind when Moomba left Earth in Tales to Astonish #23 (Jun 63) and is of the same race.
In the second, non-Doom story in Fantastic Four #7, Maria Hill of the C.I.A. gives subordinate agent Nick Fury the (illegal) secret assignment to re-start S.H.I.E.L.D. But now the acronym means Super Human Intelligence, Extra-Legal Division. (Hill: “It saves the American taxpayers some graphic design money.”) I didn’t know S.H.I.E.L.D. was defunct, and have no idea how these two ended up at another intelligence agency. But it does make the "Division," which is usually what the "D" stands for, make sense fr the first time ever. It's a division of the C.I.A.
If I have a complaint, it’s that North occasionally writes his research into the story. Like when Sue notes that Reed has trouble forgiving himself. Or Alcia articulates North's psychological assessment of Doom referred to above. Or when both note that Johnny is happiest when he’s with his peeps, and has complete faith in Reed and Sue to solve everything. This is making the subtext -- his notes -- text, and he should show, not tell.

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'One World Under Doom'

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