Here's a thread to discuss the new Howard Chaykin comic, Hey Kids! Comics!, and the stories behind the stories...
Probably something we might benefit from are a list characters, and who they might correspond to in real life. I don't think Chaykin's going entirely for a one-to-one correspondence with his three main characters -- I suspect they'll be involved in incidents that happened to a variety of people throughout the industry. But the bosses, and the supporting characters, might all suggest one person or another in particular. So I'll try to keep a tally here on the front page, and see if that informs our reading.
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If it hasn't been said, Dan Fleischer is based on WILL EISNER
The key parts
Vol 1 #4:
-1955: Ted is working on "Maintaining Ordance Monthly" for Fleischer, which is an analogue to PS, The Preventive Maintenance Monthly, a magazine that Eisner was art director on from 1951 to 1971:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS,_The_Preventive_Maintenance_Monthly
-1965: Dan Fleischer is credited for The Ghost at the panel (Ron Fogel is covering up that part of the banner, but you'll see later in Vol 2 #3, that The Ghost is an analogue to The Spirit).
Vol 2 #2:
Peter Vance tells Bob Rose that he'd rather go ghost for Fleischer. Wood did work on The Spirit comic
https://kitchen-sink.kwakk.info/2022/03/15/1983-the-outer-space-spi...
Vol 2 #3:
One of the comics in the 1964 chapter to be revived is The Ghost, through Charlie Comics. This is a reference to Harvey Comics' 1966 revival of The Spirit, which lasted for two issues.
Vol 3 #2:
-Fleischer is getting sued for the Doc Magma comic, a reference to the lawsuit against Fox Feature Syndicate's Wonder Man (whom Eisner created).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_Man_(Fox_Publications)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detective_Comics,_Inc._v._Bruns_Publi....
Chaykin's design of Doc Magma is intended to look way closer to his Powerhouse to drive the point home, even though Fox's Wonder Man visually doesn't look that similar to Superman. But it should be noted that Eisner himself also tried to rewrite the history about the lawsuit in his The Dreamer book.
Ted is also being criticized for being ghost artist on The Ghost on account it has a character named Blue Gums, who's described as a racial stereotype. Blue Gums is likely supposed to be Ebony from The Spirit.
Marty Fabrizzi is based on CARMINE INFANTINO
Chaykin has said that Gil Kane and Carmine Infantino hated each other, and that affected how Infantino viewed Chaykin.
https://web.archive.org/web/20130513111424/https://lareviewofbooks....
Vol 2 #5 shows Marty Fabrizzi dismissing Noah Gitlin
Vol 3 #1 shows where the animosity between Ray Clarke and Marty Fabrizzi stemmed from. I don't know if that's real or embellished for the story.
Jeff Thomas is based on JACK DAVIS
Compare Jeff's signature in Vol 2 #1 to Jack Davis' signature
Morris Adelstein is based on MARTIN GOODMAN
Vol 3 #2's inside cover description of Adelstein: "Lives by copying others doing it more successfully." This is a criticism that's been made of Martin Goodman a few times.
https://www.tcj.com/reviews/the-secret-history-of-marvel-comics-jac...
"Goodman never had any significant interest in what he published (except for a devotion to westerns), so long as it sold. How many periodicals could he print and distribute and sell? That was all that mattered. If there was a trend (sadism, science fiction, sex advice, superhero comics, paperback fiction) he copied whatever was selling with multiple imitations. From the 1930s to the 1960s, he threw innumerable pulps, magazines, digests, comic books, and even paperbacks at the wall to see what stuck well enough to justify sourcing content for another issue."
And of course in Vol 1 #4, Bob Rose refers to Morris as "Uncle Morris".
Laszlo Fabin is based on ALEX TOTH
Chaykin talked about Toth and also how Gil Kane viewed him:
https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/aberrant-behavior-on-alex-toth/
"Gil Kane, a cartoonist and contemporary of Toth’s, was one of those aforementioned admirers, who was able, to his credit, to separate his personal feelings about the man — Toth and Kane hated each other’s guts, apparently from the day they met — and continue to worship the work despite that lifelong animus. He said, and I quote, 'Toth has never had the popular regard of [Jack] Kirby, [Frank] Frazetta, of [Wallace] Wood, because the bravura styles of these men are infinitely more appealing to comic book readers than the complex subtleties and abstractions of Toth’s style.'"
This is shown throughout the series with the antagonism between Ray Clarke and Laszlo Fabin, and also Vol 2 #3, Ray admits that Fabin should win the award even if he is a big asshole.
There is also a legend about Toth in which he hung an editor out the window to get his check:
https://www.cbr.com/alex-toth-julius-schwartz-robert-kanigher-window/
And despite whether or not that was real, Chaykin did include it in Vol 1 #3 as Laszlo Fabin dangled Jess Mayberg out the window.
Well done, Jay A!
Welcome. We're glad to have you here.
Thanks! There's a few I'm still not sure on but here are some guesses
I think Art Podwil is supposed to be Joe Kubert
This thought came to mind while I was reading what Chaykin said of Infantino, Gil Kane, and Joe Kubert in that link I posted earlier:
"As noted above, all these men had known each other since their early adolescence — and, for the most part, they regarded each other with distaste, frequently bordering on genuine loathing."
While rereading after reading that quote, It ended up hitting me that Art Podwil is a contemporary of Marty Fabrizzi, as seen in Vol 2 #1.
Art Podwil as seen in Hey Kids! Comics! so far looks kind of like how a younger Joe Kubert looked:
https://www.nerdteam30.com/creator-conversations-retro/2017/11/22/a...
https://www.newsfromme.com/2012/08/12/joe-kubert-r-i-p/
Also in Vol 2 #1, Podwil is credited for the comic Trog. This might be an analogue to Joe Kubert's Tor:
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=19170
Both have a cover tagline with "1,000,000 Years Ago".
The only caveat is that Trog has Fabrizzi's involvement, and I don't think Carmine Infantino ever worked on Tor.
I think Wilson Pollard appears to be based on Archie Goodwin or at least partly based on him.
When you see Pollard with the mustache he resembles how Goodwin looked.
And if you read wiki's entry for Goodwin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_Goodwin_(comics)
Some of it matches up with Pollard's interests (GW Comics/EC Comics) or career (Thriller might be an analogue to Warren). However I don't think Goodwin ever worked for MAD, the way Pollard worked at WAK, so he might be an amalgamation of Goodwin and someone else.
This week's Destroyer Duck Graphite Edition got me thinking about the "Great Moments in Comic Book History" back-up feature from the original Destroyer Duck. In his foreword to the Graphite Edition, Mark Evanier mentions a "kinda-true account of a writer who once ripped off a publisher for a great deal of money... a story Jack had told me." He goes on to say: "I was going to do a second story about a legendary--and probably spurious--incident where a freelancer once in anger dangled an editor out a window. It's an oft-told tale among folks who worked in comics in the early sixties, and at least a half-dozen old pros claimed to have witnessed it first-hand in the DC Comics offices. None of them, though, agreed on which freelancer and which editor it was... and if that doesn't make you doubtful that the alleged dangling ever took place, try this: Most of those supposed eyewitnesses did not disagree with DC editor Julius Schwartz's insistence that the windows in that building did not open. Anyway, before I could write it, Marty Pasko--who had worked for DC and was now working for Ruby-Spears--demanded to handle it. Since none of us were getting paid, I decided not to wrestle him for the honor. He wrote the script, Joe Staton peciled it, and [Carol Lay] did the lettering."
I bring this legend up here because I think Chaykin adapted it, either as an actual incident or as a story one freelancer told to another, although I cannot find the issue now.
V3, #4: I don't know who's been identified and who has not at this point (and am not in the mood to go back and look), but I'll keep adding them and maybe make a comprehensive list at some point in the future.
Companies: Arista Comics is Atlas-Seaboard; Now Heroes Comics Group is Red Circle; Turret Comics is Tower Comics; Fine Comics For Kids is Charlton.
People: Marty Fabrizzi is Carmine Infantino; Morris Adelstein is Martin Goodman; Bob Rose is Stan Lee (I know we've IDed that one); Don Metcalf is Roy Thomas (I think we've IDed that one); Stan Kriss is Marve Wolfman; Lee DeHoven is Gerry Conway; Wilson Pollard is Archie Goodwin; Chuck Stilwell Jim Shooter; Noah Gitlin is Howard Chaykin; John Mavrides is Neal Adams; Phil Dunlap and Lee [?] are Steve Englehart and Marshall Rogers; [?] is John Verpoorten.
Characters, etc.: S.T.O.R.M. Squad is T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents; Atomic Agency is a riff on both Dynamo and Red Circle; Urban Agents is a riff on Atlas-Seaboard; Stinger is Scorpion; Hurricane is [I should know this one!]; the Vivacious Verve Veneration Society is the Mighty Marvel Marching Society.
I've left a lot unidentified; I should have jotted down a few notes while I was reading (yesterday).
I think John Mavrides is still primarily Steranko but with Neal Adams elements. Previously most of what we'd been shown of Mavrides is comparable to Steranko
*Mavrides is shown to be a fan of Lieutenant Liberty, comparable to Steranko's favorite character being Captain America
*Like pointed out earlier in the thread, the Mavrides page looks more like Steranko's
*Ray Clarke in Vol 2 #3 describes Mavrides to Alfred Kessler as "what would happen if [Kessler] and Sid [Mitchell] had a baby. Sid Mitchell is the Jack Kirby analogue as mentioned before and Alfred Kessler is based on Bernard Krigstein. People have drawn comparisons between Steranko's work to Kirby's and Krigstein's
I think it's just his actions in Vol 3 #4 (trying to goad the companies into giving original art and going on TV to tell how the Siegel and Shuster counterparts were mistreated) and maybe the scene where he does a portfoilio crique that he does things comparable to Neal Adams.
I think Stan Kriss is Len Wein. He was Marvel EIC in 1974-1975 and then went over to DC in 1977 (though he did do some Marvel during that time up until 1980)
Mike Coburn's work looks like Bill Sienkiewicz's.
"I think John Mavrides is still primarily Steranko but with Neal Adams elements."
Yeah, you're right. But since Chaykin himself has insisted there's no one-to-one correspondence, I think Mavrides was Steranko, in in #3, Adams in #4.
Here are a few more guesses from...
V3, #5: Durkee and Stedahl are Eastmen and Laird; the Antisocial Positronik Aardvarks is the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles; Curt Powell is Rob Liefeld (or someone like him); Lone Warrior is Lone Wolf & Cub; Yankee Foxtrot is American Flagg!; Colin James is Christopher Priest; Shoshana Glaub is Karen Berger; BlackGuardians is Watchmen; Red Smear is Black Kiss; MidKnight Falls is Dark Knight Returns. A l;ot more occur to me as I'm actually reading, but when I try to remember them later, I forget. I cannot peg the female-run Garfield Comics.
The cover shows a sold-out movie theater showing a superhero movie marathon next door to a comic book shop going out of business. That sounds about right.
Curt Powell is Frank Miller. That's why the Eastman and Laird stand-ins go up to Powell and thank him for being their inspiration; TMNT was inspired by Miller's Daredevil and Ronin. You also see this in the one-pager in V3 #3, Curt Powell is at Howarth's Auction House looking at a Madcap cover he did, that he no longer can afford. It's also clear from that cover that Madcap is a stand-in for Daredevil.
Lone Warrior does seem like Lone Wolf and Cub, but the more I thought about the page, I think it's actually supposed to be Miller's Ronin. The conversation Curt Powell and Noah Gitlin have implies that the book is selling like crazy but hated, which I think was what happened with Miller's Ronin when it was first released. It seems a little odd because the cover kind of evokes First Comics' reprint of Lone Wolf and Cub, and Lone Warrior is published through the First Comics stand-in and not the DC stand-in, but I think this is a deliberate mash-up/artistic license to tie Miller's Ronin with what inspired it/blazed the trail for it, sort of like how the Antisocial Positornik Aardvarks also reference Cerebus, in a way.
Shoshana Glaub is Jenette Kahn, as she's making a reluctant Ed Siegel/Paul Levitz publish Midknight Falls and BlackGuardians.
I think Keith Van Horn (whom Noah Gitlin shows Yankee Foxtrot to) is supposed to be Gary Groth.
"Curt Powell is Frank Miller."
Yep, you're right. (I wasn't too sure about that one, anyway; it's obvious now.)
"Lone Warrior [is] supposed to be Miller's Ronin."
Yep, you're right.
"Shoshana Glaub is Jenette Kahn"
Yep, you're right.
(Man, I suck at this!)
V3, #6: The final issue of issue of the third series brings us well into the Image era (Vision Comics). The cast of characters has now expanded to 28. Notable among them are...
Tom Hollenbeck = Todd McFarlane
Bo Tinker = Rob Liefeld
Luke Nguyen = Jim Lee
Daniel Parkes = Alan Moore
...but equally fun is identifying the comic books (Demon Dead = Spawn, Odd Squad = Youngblood, etc.).
It ends with a poignant look at Howard Chaykin's own stand-in, Noah Gitlin.
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