Thor debuted in Journey Into Mystery 83, cover-dated August 1962. This was, of course, the very early days of modern Marvel. The Fantastic Four had only 5 issues under their belts, and the Incredible Hulk had just 2. JIM was a monthly title (FF and Hulk were bi-monthlies), so Thor was actually the first super-hero headliner to appear every month, beating out Ant-Man by a month. Spider-Man also debuted in Aug '62, but would have to wait 7 months to get his own magazine.
Of all the Silver Age Marvel books, JIM/Thor seems to get a lot less love and respect than other creations. That may be because Thor is not really a creation of Jack Kirby and Stan Lee as it is their adaptation of the Thor of Norse myths. There is one aspect of Marvel's Thor that is possibly borrowed from the Fawcett Captain Marvel, and in some of the early stories, Thor comes across as a poor man's Superman.
In the first year or so, Stan sometimes was credited as the writer, sometimes only the plotter. It's debatable how much he did or didn't do - it always will be, I suppose - but one thing for sure, he very obviously didn't do the dialogue every issue. Jack did the pencils on JIM 83-89, 93, and 97, and then was the regular penciller every month starting with 101. Jack also did the backup feature, Tales of Asgard, starting in JIM 97, a very significant - and excellent - strip on its own.
Inspired by the Baron, I'm going to re-read the Thor stories starting with JIM 83 and give you my thoughts. I may stop at Kirby's last issue, or I may keep going, I haven't really decided yet. Like Bob, I'm going to try to be succinct, even though it's not my strong suit - I'm sure I'll be long winded from time to time. I'm looking forward to what you guys think of these stories as well.
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Captain Comics said:
It may have been a question of priorities and time. Although we tend to forget them, Lee also wrote for the non-superhero titles, and Kirby continued to work on them after the superhero features started appearing. Kirby drew the Rawhide Kid stories to #32 (Feb. 1963), and the Two-Gun Kid stories from #60-#62 (Nov. 1962-Mar. 1963). He also drew non-series stories for Tales of Suspense to #35 (Nov. 1962), Love Romances to #105 (May 1963), and, intermittently, Gunsmoke Western to #77 (Jul. 1963). But I suppose his final stories for those titles need not have been prepared close to when they appeared. Kirby also did The Incredible Hulk up to #5 (Jan. 1963). All dates cover-dates.
That said, later on "Giant-Man" was apparently dropped from Tales to Astonish for not being good enough. It can't have been due to sales as he was sharing the comic with the Hulk. So apparently, Lee did make that kind of judgement.
As I mentioned before, the early JIMs were not done Marvel Method. Larry Lieber wrote full scripts, which he then gave to Jack. Stan provided the plots, but was that a few sentences, or did he sit down with his brother and extensively plot it out from start to finish? My guess is no to the latter, or at least not every time. There's just a world of difference between these early stories and the later ones, and even these early Thor tales and the FF stories of the same period.
I was going to ruffle through Marvels of mid-1963 and see what Kirby dropped to pick up both Avengers and Thor. And The X-Men began right around that time, too, with Kirby on the early issues. Looks like Incredible Hulk is a contender, and I bet there's a Western contender as well. Anyone know off-hand?
I've read a couple of accounts that the first issue of Avengers was a rush job to fill in for a very late Daredevil #1. DD & X-Men were meant to debut together as "in the tradition" of Spider-Man & the FF as ordered by Martin Goodman. When Lee saw that Bill Everett was not going to complete the art for DD on time, and in fact it was about 6 months late, he got Kirby to whip out a tale featuring characters Kirby was already very familiar with and thus could just focus on telling a story featuring them. All things considered, it came out pretty well. Also of note, with the advent of the Avengers not only did Thor's story & art improve, but Ant-man became Giant-Man the very next month and Iron Man switched from his bulky golden armor to the first version of his much sleeker crimson & gold armor a month later, and of course, then Captain America showed up.
That's really interesting. I hadn't heard that before, and I thought I'd heard all of the Goodman stories..
Fred W. Hill said:
Journey Into Mystery 92 (5/63)
"The Day Loki Stole Thor's Magic Hammer"
Plot-Stan Lee Writer-"R. Berns" (Robert Bernstein) Pencil & Inks-Joe Sinnott
Cover - Kirby & Ayers
In Asgard, Loki is bound to a rock with ten unbreakable chains, by Odin's decree. He vows to somehow escape and wreak vengeance on Thor. Meanwhile on Earth, at Dr. Blake's office, Jane is leaving for the day while Don is staying for a bit to study some x-rays. Some crooks burst in; one of them has bullet wounds and they force Blake to operate on him. They intend to kill him but he tricks them into thinking Thor is entering his office. He changes to Thor, and ties the three crooks to an operating table, which he then throws to police headquarters.
A week later, Thor is helping out on a movie set. The film is about Thor, Loki, and viking tribes; Thor's proceeds are for charity. Loki observes this, and after hearing Thor will be hurling his hammer at a mountain to cause an avalanche, gets an idea. Loki's chains are made of the same metal, Uru, as Thor's hammer. He uses his magic to attract the hammer magnetically to his chains as Thor hurls it. The hammer shatters the chains, and Loki is free.
He figures he will have a better chance at defeating Thor in Asgard than on Earth. He plants a suggestion in Thor's mind to summon Odin for help. Odin transports Thor to Asgard, where he can remain Thor indefinitely, even without the hammer. Odin deduces the hammer must be somewhere in Asgard, but tells Thor everyone is too busy with their own affairs to help him look for it. Thor begins his search in a forest, and Loki causes trees to come to life and attack him. Thor overcomes them, thanks to a makeshift hammer he puts together, and realizes Loki is behind this. He heads for the rock where Loki was chained. Loki changes some clouds into dragons, and they attack Thor. He uses one finger to forge another hammer out of a cliff. He hurls at a dragon, and the hammer flies off after hitting it. Thor realizes the cliff was not made of rock, but Uru metal. He figures out what Loki has done, follows this hammer, and finds his original hammer and Loki's broken chains. He alerts Odin and other gods - who Loki had mentally suggested not aid Thor - and Loki is a prisoner once more.
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My rating: 6/10
If some elements of his story sound Superman-esque, there's a reason for that. "R. Berns" aka Robert Bernstein, had done some work on Superman prior to this. The scene with the crooks, totally unrelated to the main story, struck me as a DC like scene, as did the viking movie, the dragons, and Thor carving a hammer with one finger. All of it was more whimisical than what we've seen before. It wasn't a bad story per se, but I didn't even find it as thrilling as the previous issue with Sandu. I never thought for a second the trees or the dragons were any danger to Thor. Plus, for a story that built up to Loki freeing himself, he didn't do much once he was freed. I don't think he even moved away from the rock. He also gave up too easily. The idea he could mentally control Odin seemed a stretch even at this stage.
The art by Sinnott is a big improvement over last issue. It's very consistent throughout the story, leading me to think the last issue, credited to Sinnott, was a rush job or other artists pitched in.
So far in this discussion, much of the comparison has been between Thor and later-Thor, when the comparison should be between Thor and contemporary Superman. Written by Robert Bernstien, #92's story is a particularly apt comparison. However, unlike, say Fantastic Four and Spider-Man, these early Thor plots aren't better than what DC was doing with superman at the time.
John Dunbar (the mod of maple) said:
Journey Into Mystery 92
Some crooks burst in; one of them has bullet wounds and they force Blake to operate on him.
This is only three months since the last time he was forced to operate on a criminal under threat of death. Being a doctor in Marvel's New York is more dangerous than being in law enforcement.
He changes to Thor, and ties the three crooks to an operating table, which he then throws to police headquarters.
I haven't read this in years, but did he have a way of getting the table back? They can't be cheap. Also, how did he arrange a soft landing?
Loki observes this, and after hearing Thor will be hurling his hammer at a mountain to cause an avalanche, gets an idea.
This seems to be the sort of thing people would hold against a movie production company.
He figures he will have a better chance at defeating Thor in Asgard than on Earth.
This doesn't make sense to me. Is Loki stronger in Asgard than on Earth? We've already established that Thor will be plain ol' Don Blake without his hammer, so how is Asgard better for Loki?
He plants a suggestion in Thor's mind to summon Odin for help. Odin transports Thor to Asgard, where he can remain Thor indefinitely, even without the hammer.
I don't think planting a suggestion is the same thing as controlling Odin. Odin would think these were his own ideas and not necessarily realize he's being influenced.
Odin deduces the hammer must be somewhere in Asgard, but tells Thor everyone is too busy with their own affairs to help him look for it.
This must be the first time Odin DIDN'T get involved in Thor's affairs.
During Marvel's first couple of years, story ideas were repeated ad naseum, to a much greater extent than from about 1964 on, and was far more outright zaniness. Based on the comics of this era that I've read, Thor, Iron Man, Ant Man and the Human Torch were typically the ones which you most had to put your brain on hold to get through the stories while wondering if they were plotted by an 8 year old. I haven't seen much of Joe Sinnott's drawings, but based on what I have seen I'm glad he mostly stuck to his far more stronger talent in inking! His version of Thor's hammer looks much more like a sledgehammer than Kirby's more mallet-like version. Interesting that Lee let that particular artistic inconsistency slide as otherwise to my knowledge every other artist stuck to the shorter-handled Kirby hammer. At least Sinnott didn't make it a claw hammer -- when Thor drives in a nail, he means for it to stay driven in!
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