'One World Under Doom'

Jeff of Earth-J December 20, 2024 at 4:54pm

Far be it from me to discourage discussion, but I have no plans to read One World Under Doom. I'd read a discussion of it, but I likely wouldn't have much to say.

Captain Comics January 13, 2025 at 2:35pm

One World Under Doom begins Feb. 12, and I'll be getting that from my LCS, so I can comment on that title in real time. The ancillary books and miniseries I'm ordering from Westfield, which means they'll arrive later, and I'll comment when they do. I hope y'all will comment on either the books or your Doom experiences whether you're reading along or not.

Meanwhile, we have some prelude books this month. I've ordered some from Westfield, and others from MyComicShop.com (Lone Star), and I'll be a trifle late commenting on them as well. The only one I bought at the comic shop this week was Fantastic Four #27, with Doom featured prominently on the cover (see left).

But d'oh! It was a variant cover, which I didn't notice until I got home. And it has nothing to do with Doctor Doom or "One World Under Doom." It's a story about Franklin and Valeria Richards, and Nikki and Jo-Venn Masters-Grimm. It was more enjoyable than it had any right to be, given my utter lack of interest in what children say or do. It was genuinely funny in places, mainly thanks to Nikki, who is a Skrull. The threat in this issue was Mole Man, more bloodthirsty than I remembered him being.

The next issue of Fantastic Four is a proper tie-in. It seems that since taking the title of Sorcerer Supreme, Doom has been sequestered in his castle setting all his plans in motion. They will begin to bear fruit in February, and I should get Fantastic Four #28 in my Westfield shipment sometime that month.

Meanwhile, he hasn't been seen since "Blood Hunt," with two exceptions.

One is Avengers #19-20, which came out several months ago. I failed to purchase those issues off the stands, and have ordered them from Westfield. According to the solicitation, Doom confronts the Avengers to ask why they haven't fixed the world yet. I know MY answer to that (which I'll save for now), but I'm curious what they'll say. I'll comment when my order arrives.

The second exception is "8 Deaths of Spider-Man." What I've gleaned so far is that Doctor Strange used to fight Cyttorak once a year (something we didn't know about) to keep it from expanding into our dimension. Doom has no time for such trivialities, and tapped Spider-Man to fight Cyttorak in his stead. Which, given the story's title, is nothing that's going to go well for Peter Parker. Anyway, that started around five months ago, and I've ordered those back issues as well. Look for Amazing Spider-Man to join the titles I'll discuss here.

Anybody else reading these?

Jeff of Earth-J January 13, 2025 at 4:05pm

While we're waiting to get started, I'm going to the discussion right off the bat.

But d'oh! It was a variant cover, which I didn't notice until I got home. And it has nothing to do with Doctor Doom or "One World Under Doom."

I HATE when that happens! So far I've managed to avoid actually buying a comic with a "bait and switch" cover, but quite often I get a little thrill while perusing the racks only to have my expectations crushed when I realized the cover was an unrelated variant. Most recently that happened with last month's new Infinity Watch #1.

In this case, I happened to know in advance that this was a tenuously-releated variant, but although I knew in advance I had no interest in the series, I decided to buy the Starlin variant cover if I saw it. Turns out I didn't... see it that is. It was one of those "retailer incentive" covers and my LCS didn't even get one in (because they didn't order a zillion copies). [The owner of my LCS has a standing offer to anyone who wants such covers; he will be happy to order one as long as the customer buys the requiste number of standard covers.] These are usually available for $50 or so. Time was (back when comics were 60¢ or so), I buy a copy of a title I didn't read just because I liked the cover. I'd've paid five bucks for that Starlin variant, but not fifty.

Peter Wrexham > Jeff of Earth-J January 13, 2025 at 6:04pm

I decided to buy the Stalin variant cover if I saw it.

Yeah, I'd probably be at least mildly interested in a cover by Uncle Joe Stalin too. I never realised that he'd taken time out from ruling Russia to be a comics artist!
The Baron > Peter Wrexham January 13, 2025 at 7:18pm

"Stellar Joe Stalin."
Jeff of Earth-J > The Baron January 13, 2025 at 8:37pm

Corrected (smart alecks).

Captain Comics January 26, 2025 at 3:04pm

Taking my cue from Jeff's Stalin variant, I begin this discussion with The Death of Stalin, a terrific graphic novel, which was turned into an equally terrific movie.

(Evidently, I am also a smart aleck. Sorry, Jeff.)

I ordered Avengers #19-21 from MyComicShop.com, as issue #19 officially featured Doctor Doom, Sorcerer Supreme, and #20-21 looked like they might. It turns out that Avengers #19 was a one-off, and issues #20-21 were about other things. I enjoyed them well enough anyway, as the writing these days (by Jed MacKay) seems to turn more on characterization than action, which is what I really like. I didn't care for the art too much in the first two issues (by Farid Karami).

Anyway, on to Avengers #19:

"Doom would speak with you."

A huge projection of Doom appears in the Assemblers' current HQ, called The Impossible City, about which I know little. But this is great! My concern with Doctor Doom in his every appearance is that he won't be the Doctor Doom I know, who is the best and coolest villain in the history of villains. Stan Lee wrote the best Doom (natch) and the closer modern writers get to that standard, the happier I am.

"Doom would speak with you" coming from a giant, projected image of Doom is ... so Doom. There's no preamble. He's playing dominance games from the start. And there's no obvious way for the Avengers to decline. This is an order (barely) disguised as a request. That's so Doom.

For those who haven't seen an image of Doom since he became Sorcerer Supreme* he now wears the Cloak of Levitation, and the demon that we usually see on the front of Doctor Strange's tunic is now on the front of Doctor Doom's tunic.

* At the end of Blood Hunt — Astringent Andrew

We don't see the discussion, but apparently the Avengers (Roll call: Iron Man, Captain Marvel, Scarlet Witch, Vision, Storm, Sam Wilson/Captain America) agree to meet Doom in an Afghanistan desert. Doom picks the spot because it's the "Graveyard of Empires."*

* He's right! — Archival Andrew

Doom notes with gruff approval— as a teacher would to school children — that the Avengers are prompt. "Doom's time is too valuable to waste." Also, he's too important to meet the Avengers in person, and just sends his astral form. Which has the added benefit that they can't physically attack him.

Not that they're backing down. Not one of them acknowledges Doom's leverage, or his insults. They are openly antagonistic, and I'm glad to see it. You know what I don't like? Heroes who meekly go along with Doom's bullying and faux civility, and even find something attractive about him. LIke Storm playing footsie with Doom over dinner.*

* Uncanny X-Men #143-145, and soon Storm #5 — Alliterative Andrew

Scarlet Witch: "You've stolen the mantle of Sorcerer Supreme. Have you asked us here to justify yourself?"

Ooh, first points to Wanda! You go, girl!

Doom: "No. I have summoned you here to justify yourselves."

A sweet riposte. Iron Man says what I'm thinking: "There he is. That's Doom, all right."

Vision: "Explain yourself, Doom."

Again, I love seeing the Avengers refusing to back down or be put on the back foot. These are all vets and shouldn't give an inch to Doom's theatrics and bullying, and they don't. Some writers would have them give ground, or negotiate, or possibly go to dinner with him. (Looking at you, Chris Claremont.) So, yeah, this is EXACTLY what I want to see. Doom being Doom, and the Avengers being the Avengers, in a high-stakes confrontation where every word counts.

To continue: Doom says he's been meditating on the nature of power. (He has been absent since Blood Hunt #5, so maybe that's what he's been doing. If you choose to believe him, which I certainly don't.) He gives a pretty good speech about the dire state of the world, how nations fight over flags, and how the Avengers represent the greatest concentration of power in the world, and could put an end to it. "Why have you, the most powerful, allowed this to happen?"

This is classic Doom. He's framing the discussion so that they're on the defensive from the outset, and with no wiggle room except to allow that Doom is right. (Always!) And when Sam Wilson responds, Doom dismisses him from the discussion altogether.

Doom: "Ah, speaking of flags. An oversight. I should have clarified that while I would speak with the Avengers, I have no interest in anything Captain America could say."

Boom! That's one of his debate opponents eliminated from the discussion altogether, and possibly the one with the best arguments. Which could have a chilling effect on the others!

Captain Marvel demands he get to the point, and as he does, he summons the spirits of dead warriors from the "Graveyard of Empires" to battle the Avengers. These six taking on ghosts of 13th century Mongols, 19th century Brits, 20th century Russians, and so forth, isn't much of a battle, and there's no significant danger. But we get our obligatory "action scene" for the issue. I nod approvingly. Jed MacKay works for Marvel Comics, and Marvel Comics must have an action scene in every issue, so MacKay includes one. But it's really the bare minimum, and doesn't impede the conversation, which is what I'm here for.

Doom continues to scold the Avengers (as if they are children) for their failure to take the world in hand and set things right. He wonders if it is "the cloak of cowardice you call morality" or a "lack of imagination." On the latter point he shows them visions of themselves lording over a just and violence-free world (with their uniform colors now reflecting Doom -- mostly green).

Doom: "A good world. A right world. An Avengers world."

Boom again! Doom takes the Avengers' own words and ideals* and throws them back in their face.

* From the story "Avengers World" in Avengers #1 (fifth series, by Jonathan Hickman, 2012). — Astute Andrew

But these are the Avengers, and they won't go down (verbally) without a fight. And it's Ororo who shoots him down.

Storm: "You ask a question in such a way that the only answer possible is the one you wish!* But the answers we have are not the ones you would like."

* Told you so! — Overachiever Andrew

So now the Avengers go into the reasons why they don't, essentially, conquer the world. Each of them (except Captain America) give an answer. Most are specific to their character, which I won't spoil. They're pretty much in line with what I say when people ask me why Superman doesn't fix the world. Nor will I spoil Doom's response, which ... hoo-boy. Things are gonna get ugly.

Which is the perfect end to a perfect issue.

Captain Comics January 31, 2025 at 4:33pm

Amazing Spider-Man #61 launches "8 Deaths of Spider-Man," which is Doctor Doom-related, so here we go.

The issue opens amusingly, and I had forgotten how much I enjoyed Spidey's dialogue during battle scenes. This is one of my favorite kind of battle scenes, where we see the hero easily handle a lesser villain. I like seeing these occasionally, because when the hero loses every battle, issue after issue, even when he wins, you wonder how he's lived so long. (Looking at you, Batman.) These quick B-list wins remind me that our guy really is formidable, no matter what the story to come has in mind.

Which is Doctor Doom.

"Inefficient, unfocused, immature ... you rarely garner Doom's attention, Spider-Man, but now that you have ... "disappointing" is an understatement." Not the best Doom dialogue I've read, but the overbearing attitude is spot on. Also, since Doom's here to set Spider-Man on a task, one wonders why he'd pick someone so "disappointing."

I also like that Spider-Man admits to himself to being a bit scared, but stands up to Doom anyway.

Which doesn't work, because a "Scion of Cyttorak" shows up, looking for "a Champion" to defend "the Covenant," and using gravity as a weapon. Doom reappears, and having no choice now, Spidey accepts his "help." Doom launches into some expository dialogue about how Strange made a deal with Cyttorak for a MacGuffin that protects our dimension from all mystical attacks from other dimensions. (Apparently Dormammu didn't get the memo.) Doom mixes grudging admiration for Strange's tenacity and cleverness, but buries all that with insults about his inefficiency, altruism, lack of intelligence, blah, blah. Doom just can't be nice, can he? But the Doom-iness takes the sting out of the exposition.

Anyway, now that Spidey's the Champion of the Covenant, he gets mystical armor and a basic working knowledge of magic, plus eight "Reeds of Raggador" that can restore his life. But only eight times, and he's facing eight foes.

Amazing Spider-Man #62-65

There's no more Doom/One World, so I won't get into too much detail. Being Peter Parker, Nerdus Maximus, he starts boning up on magic. Doctor Strange's astral form shows up to help mentor him. He shouts his spell names as he fights the first couple of Scions, who point out that he's being amateurish. So he starts shouting the wrong spell names as he's doing the correct spells, and it's kinda funny.

The Scions all look different (but with the same color scheme) and have different powers. Spidey keeps beating them (and keeps dying). But the one in #65 seems to break him: This one convinces him that nothing he does matters. The world will end someday anyway. He's going to die someday. Everyone he loves is going to die. They're all going to be forgotten, too. So why fight? So he quits.

That's as far as I've gotten. Kind of a turning point, I think.

Captain Comics February 4, 2025 at 5:20pm

Doctor Doom & Rocket Raccoon #1 came out this week, one of five one-shot team-up books where J. Michael Straczynski smashes two characters together for a story. This has nothing to do with "One World Under Doom," but it stars Doom and is happening now, so I'm mentioning it.

And really all I have to say is that I didn't care for it.

Fine, fine, here are some details. I didn't care for some of Doom's motivations (which I felt were out of character) or some of his compliments toward Rocket (which I felt were out of character). I really don't care for the conclusion of the book, which has the audacity to show why and how the universe was created, and on whom it was modeled. (Yes, spoiler, it's Doom. No thank you.)

Rocket was sometimes played for humor, and I didn't care much for that, either. Funny is in the eye of the beholder, and therefore hard to write. Some might have found the yuks found herein funny, but I didn't.

I've pre-ordered the next in the series. Captain America & Volstagg #1. If that doesn't suit, it will be my last.

Captain Comics February 6, 2025 at 10:40pm

Before “One World Under Doom” begins, it might be useful to ponder the previous times Doom conquered the world (and other things).

DOOM SUPREME

Super-Villain Team-Up #14 (1977)

“Doom Supreme!” by Bill Mantlo and Bob Hall

Champions #16 (1977)

“A World Lost!” by Bill Mantlo and Bob Hall

Doom reveals to Magneto that he controls the world thanks to a neurological gas he invented. Bored, he frees Magneto and dares the Master of Magnetism to stop him. Magneto recruits the Beast (whom he frees by manipulating iron in his blood) and the story continues in Champions #16. There, the gas wears off on Ghost Rider (who doesn't need to breathe). GR uses his Hellfire on Doom. Doom has to remove his mask (for some reason) and the gas affects him as well, which means he doesn't control anyone else anymore (somehow).

Some takeaways:

It wasn't clear to the Li'l Capn why Magneto chose Beast as his single, sole ally. I assume there was some internal Marvel reason. But in-story, it doesn't make a lot of sense. Professor X would be the natural, best choice, as we're talking mind control, and Chuck is top of mind for Magneto anyway. Cyclops the strategist, Captain America the inspiration, Thor the mighty ... there were a lot of better options than a furry acrobat who makes jokes.
Doom conquers and loses the world in two issues! In today’s decompressed storytelling, it would have taken — oh, let’s pick a number at random — nine issues. Not to mention lots of tie-ins and miniseries.
Doom loses because he’s bored and sets up his own resistance. Who knew that being king of the world would be so tedious?
It’s kinda funny that after all the hullaballoo of Magneto and Beast fighting the Champions that it was all beside the point. Ghost Rider stopped Doom all by his lonesome, just by happening to be there when the gas wore off.
I assume it was Johnny Blaze who inhaled the gas originally.
I’m not clear why Doom inhaling his own gas makes it impossible for him to control others. But what can you do in two issues?
The story focuses on Magneto and Beast, reducing Doom to a supporting character in his own story!
I don’t know why this story didn’t continue in Super-Villain Team-Up (which wouldn’t be canceled until issue #17), an obvious place for a Magneto-Doom battle. But it jumped to Champions. Anybody know why? Champions ended with the next issue.

EMPEROR DOOM

Marvel Graphic Novel #27: Emperor Doom (1987)

“Emperor Doom” by David Michelinie and Bob Hall

Victor uses the Purple Man's power to take over the world. (Purple Man is trapped in a big jewel which somehow amplifies his power to worldwide status.) Wonder Man was in a sensory-deprivation device during Doom’s takeover, for reasons, and when he comes out he frees Cap, who frees Hawkeye, Iron Man and (maybe) Sub-Mariner, and the bunch of them break into Doom's HQ. Subby kills the Purple Man, ending Doom's control, and Doom escapes. However, the implication is made that Doom let the Avengers win, because ruling the world meant endless meetings, and he was bored.

Some takeaways:

Doom takes his mask off and resists the Purple Man’s power by sheer force of will, just to show that he can. That is probably the highlight of the story.
Doom remembering to take out artificial beings like Vision, Machine Man and Ultron, but forgetting other unusual, Purple Man-resistant beings like Wonder Man seems out of character. (Doom takes out the robots with a device that makes them susceptible to the Purple Man, attached by his henchman, Sub-Mariner.) He was just lucky that Wonder Man was out of pocket as long as he was.
It had been established by 1987 that Daredevil can resist the Purple Man's influence. He doesn't even rate a mention here.
I'll bet there were some other characters out there in 1987 that would have been Purple Man-resistant, but I'm not thinking of them right now. In fact, that thought bothered me back then, too. But I didn't spend any time thinking about it, because I thought the story had so many holes in it that worrying about a single one seemed pointless.
It’s unclear if Sub-Mariner is affected by the Purple Man. Given some of the dialogue, an argument can be made that he was working with Doom of his own volition, and was later betrayed … again. Unfortunately, this sort of stupidity on Namor’s part does NOT seem out of character.
There’s a lot of emphasis on West Coast Avengers like Wonder Man, Hawkeye and Iron Man (in his red-and-white armor), to the detriment, I feel, of the overall story. I’d rather read about Emperor Doom, who is once again a supporting character in his own story.
Doom ends the war in Afghanistan (I don’t remember which one) and ends Apartheid in South Africa. He probably did some other cool things, too, but this story is way more interested in Wonder Man.
Wonder Man is immune to the Purple Man’s power (being made of ionic energy), but when he chooses allies, he does so on the basis of who has the strongest will, starting with Cap. Wondy shows Cap some videos of Doom attacking the Avengers and Fantastic Four, and he snaps out of it. Cap reasons that Hawkeye has great powers of concentration so he can shoot arrows (snort!), and Iron Man controls his armor with his mind, so he must be mentally disciplined. Tony’s status as a recovered alcoholic is mentioned, but plays no role.
Hawkeye tries to get Mockingbird, a trained S.H.I.E.L.D. agent, to throw off Doom's control. But she’s too mentally weak, fails to throw off Doom’s control and betrays them. But, you know, Clint Barton can do it.
One wonders why they didn’t bolster their ranks by taking off the control devices on Vision and Machine Man, which would be rather simple. The real-world reason is that this is basically an Avengers West Coast story.
The art by Bob Hall is serviceable, but nothing to write home about. Weirdly, he drew the earlier story about Doom taking over the world, too.
The Avengers didn’t win so much as Doom just got fed up with the job and quit.
It’s hard to fit this story into continuity, especially the Purple Man’s death, so it’s probably not in continuity.

PRESIDENT DOOM

Beginning with DOOM 2099 #29 (1995)

“American Caesar” by Warren Ellis and Pat Broderick

Doom conquered the United States in 2099, and it is established that this is (somehow) the real, gen-yoo-wine, accept-no-substitutes Victor Von Doom of modern Latveria. I may have stopped buying 2099 books before this point, wherein all the 2099 titles were changed to include “A.D.” (After Doom).

I never really cared for the 2099 line, and didn’t care that Doom conquered a United States I wouldn’t live to see, populated by characters I didn’t much like. I’m sure it went swimmingly. And if not, well … who cares?

Doom 2099 continued to issue #44, and the whole of the line combined into 2099: The World of Tomorrow. I had definitely stopped reading by then.

I don’t know enough to have any takeaways.

OLD MAN DOOM

Beginning with Old Man Logan #1 (2015)

“Old Man Logan” by Brian Michael Bendis and Andrea Sorrentino

The five-issue Old Man Logan miniseries gave rise to the ongoing Old Man Logan (2016-2018), which ran for 50 issues. I read the miniseries, but not the ongoing. There’s also been a 12-issue Old Man Hawkeye and a 12-issue Old Man Quill, which I have never read, but assume are in the same universe.

Anyway, in Old Man Logan continuity, the supervillains have won and carved up the U.S. Doom has an area that is basically the upper Midwest — Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, maybe Ohio, the Great Lakes and, for all I know, all of Canada. (We saw a portion of a map.) I don’t know if any of the Old Men visited there. At any rate, I don’t know anything about it.

GOD-EMPEROR DOOM

Beginning with Secret Wars #1 (2015)

“The End Times” by Jonathan Hickman and Esad Ribic

So, Jonathan Hickman destroys the Marvel Universe. In his run as Avengers overlord, he establishes that the multiverse has gone awry, where one universe has crashes into another — an “incursion” — which starts a domino effect. One by one, each universe crashes into the next, destroying both, and pushing them into the next. Eventually Earth-1610’s universe (the “Ultimate” universe) crashes into the Earth-616 universe (“our” universe). I don’t know if it was established in the original texts, but I got the impression these were the last two universes.

But! In the course of this, we learn that the Molecule Man (created back when Stan and Jack never thought his ridiculous powers would need explaining 50 years later) was a creation of the Beyonders (super-powerful reality-shapers, one of whom was established by the first Marvel Super-Heroes Secret Wars series). And Doctor Doom, instead of helping the Illuminati comes up with a way to stop the incursions (they failed), uses the Molecule Man’s connection to the Beyonders to steal their powers.

So that when everything is gone, Doom remains — as basically a god. He establishes a single reality called Battleworld, using the bits and pieces of all the others (but mainly 1610 and 616). Eventually the 616 Reed Richards, Sue Richards, Black Panther and a few others arrive as refugees in a dimensional “liferaft” Reed built. They bring Doom down, and use Franklin’s revitalized powers (and imagination) to re-create the multiverse.

Some takeaways:

I don’t think it has escaped anyone on the planet that Doom takes the place of Reed Richards in this new world — husband of Sue, father of Franklin and Valeria. To no one's surprise Doom, who is so haughty and above it all, is secretly jealous of beloved family man Reed Richards, but will never admit it. This is five decades of subtext made text.
There was a line in a recent Justice League book, I have forgotten which one, where Wonder Woman has Lex Luthor in her Lasso of Truth. She says, “What do you want?” And he says “I want to be Superman.” There it is again, subtext made text. Wonder Woman speaks for us all when she says disdainfully, “Of course you do.” Nobody says it in Secret Wars, but nobody has to.
Doctor Doom stealing a more powerful being's powers has been a theme throught the history of Marvel Comics. I remember him stealing the Silver Surfer's powers in the '60s, and Galactus' at one point, and the original Beyonder's in Marvel Super-Heroes Secret Wars. I have no doubt I've read other such stories and forgotten them, because it's almost a theme. Really, it's his go-to.
Doom makes Doctor Strange his sheriff, a singular, right-hand-man position. This falls in line with their history, especially Dr. Strange and Dr. Doom: Triumph and Torment (1989), by Roger Stern and Mike Mignola. Doctor Doom, master of the condescending put-down, never has anything good to say about Stephen Strange. But good writers show him give grudging respect here and there, despite himself. Strange earned it in that GN.
It is in Triumph and Torment, by the way, that we see Doom go from amateur magician to Strange’s peer … under Strange’s tutelage! It’s necessary for the story, but even back in 1989 Strange is unnerved at how quickly Victor picks up mastery of the mystic arts. (This is also the story where Strange becomes Sorcerer Supreme.)
In contradistinction, we see Doom’s contempt for Thor — except for his power. He has dozens of Thors from dozens of realities, all playing policeman on Battleworld. He assigns the Thunder Gods a blue-collar job that only requires brute strength.
And, good Lord, does he hate Johnny and Ben. The less said, the better.

OK, Legionnaires, what have I missed? What did I get wrong?

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'One World Under Doom'

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