"The Old Order Changeth" Contest theme

This famous line from the title of Avengers #16 has come to indicate a shake up in the line-up of many a superhero team.

Avengers #16 image 

But how many of us have thought much about that iconic cover that Kirby drew back in May 1965?  You know the one, where Captain America is calling "Avengers Assemble", in front of a high brick wall, covered with photos of various characters...all seemingly eager to join.

Just how much do you know about those characters?
For instance, how many characters are pictured on the wall?

How many of them actually answer the call?  How many were selected? (Too easy?)

How many of those pictured were currently "villains"?

How many of them were FORMER Avengers?

How many civilians?

And how many of their applications were rejected?

 

Finally, did you know that the scene on the cover not only did not happen, but also that it was not Cap who calls for the re-organization?  So,who does conduct the re-organization?  Can you identify that person by name?

 

These are the things that keep silver age fans awake at night.  How many of these questions can you answer with confidence?

You need to be a member of Captain Comics to add comments!

Join Captain Comics

Votes: 0
Email me when people reply –

Replies

  • I'll give you some clues to help you along.  There are a couple of trick questions hidden among the above question.

    First, we'll assume that this cover image takes place BEFORE the new candidates are announced, and as or after the former members take their "leave of absence."  For the purposes of this discussion then, anyone who could fall in two categories, should only be judged on their current status as of this cover.  That means, prior villains are counted as villains. (Anyone who turned their life around, say, like the Swordsman may have, should be counted as a villian.  Any hero who strays, well, we'll call them a hero.

    For the sake of arguement, we'll say there is only ONE civilian, but their status could be debated prior to this issue appearing.

  • When I looked at this cover waaaay back in '65, it seemed obvious to me: The pictures were those of the existing Avengers, plus the three added this issue, plus the Masters of Evil, whom the Avengers had been fighting off and on since issue #6, and were fighting them in this issue, too. So the wall represents everyone who has a major role in the story. Easy-peasy. (Rick Jones, the "civilian," was a member. He had an ID card, as demonstrated in one of the early issues -- the Nefaria one, I think.)

    At that point in Avengers history, Zemo had appeared in nearly every issue since #5 at least in subplot, and Enchantress and Executioner wouldn't be far behind in appearances, because they were usually the audience for Zemo's rants. Melter and Black Knight had appeared in issues Nos. 6, 15 and 16. The Radioactive Man, who had appeared in issue #6, did not reappear as one of Zemo's MoE in Nos. 15-16, and doesn't appear on the wall either.

    I don't know if it's coincidence or not, but the wall also represents every character that had appeared in the book three times or more, with the exception of the Hulk (twice as a member, once as a bad guy). Maybe Stan regarded the Masters as the supporting cast! You might also regard Sub-Mariner as a three-timer, if you count the two cameos (#4 and #16), so this interpretation is starting to fray around the edges.

  • For instance, how many characters are pictured on the wall?

    Is this a math question? Math is hard. Although they aren't moving around, so it's fairly easy to count them. As Oscar Wilde said, it's always better to count your chickens before they hatch, because after they hatch, they run around and you can't get a good count. But I digress.

    How many of them actually answer the call?  How many were selected? (Too easy?)

    I think you'll find that a lot of people here can answer that. I think it's ironic that there's someone whose NOT on the wall who was asked to join and declined. That's a lot closer than some of those guys got.

    I think the posters were supposed to show, as Cap said, who had an active role in the story rather than actual candidates, which was a little confusing. I hope we weren't to think that Cap was seriously considering the Enchantress.

    How many of those pictured were currently "villains"?

    Yeah, you have to put villains in quotes, because most of them just thought they were misunderstood.or knew better what was good for us (I.e., typical Marvel villains).

    How many of them were FORMER Avengers?

    They took a leave of absence, so it's a trick question, as none of them are former Avengers.

    How many civilians?

    Um, the guy in the coat? 

    And how many of their applications were rejected?

    As I remember, nobody was rejected who applied, right? Better question would be, where is that wall, where did Cap get poster-sized pictures of the Executioner and Enchantress, and why did he tack them up on the wall? And who's he shouting at, anyway?

    Finally, did you know that the scene on the cover not only did not happen, but also that it was not Cap who calls for the re-organization?

    A critical point to the story! This comic taught me a big lesson, which has helped me considerably in my professional career: Never go to the bathroom during a big meeting.

    While Cap was out of the room (technically on a mission), everyone else resigned, left him in charge, and said good luck with that Avengers thing. What a buncha maroons! So you never want to be out of the room when big plans are made, or you'll be the one put in charge--and you'll end up leading a team of villains. Word to the wise.

    -- MSA

     

  • The villains question is a trick one, as Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch had quit the Brotherhood of Evil in X-Men #11, which DC Indexes tells me came out a week earlier. However, Hawkeye, I believe, was not depicted as having reformed before this; his reformation was explained in a flashback sequence in the issue. From the reader’s point of view at the start of the issue he was still an Iron Man antagonist, although his decision to reform might predate the issue’s opening events. Counting him, there are five “villains” on the cover; Hawkeye, the Black Knight, the Executioner, the Melter and the Enchantress.

     

    From memory, Hawkeye doesn’t turn up at the mansion because the Avengers have put out a call for new members, but because of his own decision to reform. I think Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch read something in a newspaper relating to the Avengers’ desire for new members and seek them out. If I’ve got that right two characters answer the call and three join.

     

    The Sub-Mariner is asked to join, but he turns them down. I think there's some talk of Rick joining and Cap veteos it.

     

    Iron Man was portrayed as leading the reorganisation.

  • From memory, Hawkeye doesn’t turn up at the mansion because the Avengers have put out a call for new members, but because of his own decision to reform.

    I don't have a copy to refer to, but as I recall it was Hawkeye's original intention to become a hero. He got side-tracked by some kind of misunderstanding and then was seduced by the Black Widow, in her uncostumed period. He then was so easily manipulated that he didn't get back to his original plan until Avengers 16.

  • Richard Willis said:

     

    I don't have a copy to refer to, but as I recall it was Hawkeye's original intention to become a hero. He got side-tracked by some kind of misunderstanding and then was seduced by the Black Widow, in her uncostumed period. He then was so easily manipulated that he didn't get back to his original plan until Avengers 16.

    Quite correct, Mr. Willis.  In the eponymously titled "Hawkeye, the Marksman", from Tales of Suspense # 57 (Sep., 1964), Hawkeye decides to become a costumed crimefighter after Iron Man steals his limelight during his carnival act.  (Shellhead had to save lives when one of the carny rides broke down in the worst way.)

     

    On his first night's outing as a masked hero, Hawkeye spots two crooks running down the street after breaking into a jewelry store.  He intercedes.  The crooks get away, but they drop their loot.  As Hawkeye bends down to retrive it, the police show up, mistake him for the robber, and the chase is on!

     

    The archer eludes the police when the Black Widow pulls up in her auto and offers him a lift.  This was back in the Widow's "femme fatale" days, when her main weapons in spying for the Godless Commies was her sex appeal and the low-cut evening gowns she was poured into.  One heave of her ample bosom later, Hawkeye was hooked, and he became her faithful lapdog.

     

    Instead of "Hawkeye, the Marksman", his costumed sobriquet should have been "Hawkeye, the Mark".

     

     

  • High marks to you all for either correctly thrashing out the answers, OR, presenting a very cogent explanation for your answer!

    Personally, I would said 3 answered the call and became Cap's Kookie Quartett.  I had forgotten that I.M. contacted Namor, but even that seems a bit fishy to me... considering the last time he met the Avengers, he was an angry, P.O,ed antagonist who didn't even recognise Cap!

    I would have said Rick was the civilian, but I do recall he had an Avengers I.D.

    I didn't realize the Melter was part of the MoE... And I was going to go with all the original Avengers as "former Avengers"... but technically, the "leave of absence" would be correct.

    And yes, Iron Man (or Tony Stark) conducted the "re-organization."  ("Surprise, Cap, you've got a bunch of rookies to contend with, you old battle commander you....")

     

    So my score card would have read, 4 formers, 4 villians, 3 answer the call, 1 civillian and a partridge in a pear tree!

This reply was deleted.