I have a question about American history, and it occurred to me that today was the right day to ask it. In the 17th-18th centuries (and afterwards) the UK had a strong aristocracy. Was the system transplanted to America at all? Was there ever a Duke of Denver, a Marquess of Massachusetts, a Viscount of Virginia? I've not heard much about the British aristocracy in America (or, for that matter, the Spanish or French), and I thought you gents might be able to point me in the direction of something interesting. Would anyone know of any famous noblemen that came across, or if any noble families had branches in America?
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This might be of help. It discusses the British, French, Spanish, Dutch, and Russian colonizations of North America.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial_history_of_the_United_States
I haven't read the entire article, but the Russian entry only talks about Alaska when I know they had (unsuccessful) forts in California. I visited two of them.
There were Royal Governors and appointed positions but there were no exclusive to America titles that I could think of. Still if a Lord from England moved to, say Rhode Island, wouldn't he remain a Lord?
They had governors of the colonies long before they became states. I'm sure some (if not most) of them were called Royal Governors, as Philip said.
There was actually talk--from what I've read--that when George Washington became the first president, he was to be called "Your Highness" when addressed. He insisted on the change to "Mr. President."
Washington could have remained president for the rest of his life. He insisted on two terms only, setting the precedent until FDR.
They said that Washington could have made himself king but he refused. Was there any basis of that in fact or was it a legend?
My understanding is that the colonies being colonies, they were the "property" of the king. The "lord," in other words, was whoever was on the throne. And, yes, the governors were appointed by the crown.
My take on royal governors (Benjamin Franklin's son William was one!) is that they were appointed to do the job but that they were not "anointed" as nobility. It's like the guy who delivers the Royal Mail is just a postman.
In the Wiki article it comments that no dukes or other such persons moved to the American British colonies and certainly there were no titles created such as earl of New Jersey. I'd be willing to bet this was also true of the other colonial powers in North America. I think it was considered "beneath them" to relocate to the colonies.
Thanks, gents. In the 19th century a couple of members of the Portuguese royal family (Pedro I of Brazil and IV of Portugal and Pedro II of Brazil) ruled as monarchs in Brazil, and Maximilian, backed by the French, was briefly Emperor of Mexico.
LB, here's a counter-question: Why was there never a nobility created for the places that stayed loyal to the Crown, like Canada or Australia? Why aren't you Duke of Queensland, for example?
I was wondering how long it would take for someone to finally think of Canada (my country).
There was a hope among the British people that a landed gentry would develop in our nation--and that's probably why our system of government was set up the way it was, so that in time property owners might become lords or counts or barons.
Before the Conquest, New France was divided up into seigneuries, with a "Seigneur" holding title to land, which was then sub-divided in a feudal system. Seigneur loosely translates as Lord.
Louis de Buade, Comte de Frontenac et de Pallua was a titled gentleman born in France who became the Governor General of New France--he stayed there and died in New France, in 1698.
Vincent Massey (brother of Raymond) was the first Governor General of Canada to be born here and not from somewhere else--and he was never a lord or an earl like other G.G.'s before him (such as Lord Stanley and Earl Grey--both memorialized in sporting trophies). But Massey had other titles and honours.
It was traditional for P.M.'s to be knighted--but this tradition died after WW I. Now the title of "Right Honourable" is given to P.M.'s and "Honourable" to other federal politicians. And there are Members and Companions of the Order of Canada. And Canadians have taken titles in other countries--infamously Lord Conrd Black of Crossharbour.
But the British tradition of titled landed gentry didn't really take root in Canada. So even without a revolution, the U.S. might not have develped a titled landed gentry of its own.
However, there's a big glaring point here about titles in North America which has been obviated thusfar. Titled individuals pre-existed the French or the British. Aboriginal nations and bands have titled persons and many of those titles are inherited--while others are conferred through voting--and that's a fact that pre-dates contact and continues to this day in Canada and other parts of the Americas.
Thanks again, everyone. Jimm, your information about the French division of New France into seigneuries is exactly what I was wondering if anyone had ever done, and very interesting.
Baron, thanks for asking that question: it's not something I'd thought about. Australia wasn't colonised by the British until 1788. The first colonies were penal colonies, governed autocratically by military men (including navel officers).(1) Today's states are descended from colonies founded or split off from New South Wales at different times. In the course of the 19th century these acquired legislatures and the role of the governors became constitutional. The colonies joined together to form the Commonwealth of Australia Jan. 1 1901.
This Wikipedia page lists two(2) hereditary peerage titles incorporating Australian place names in its section "Hereditary peerages with Australian associations". These are "Baron Dugan of Victoria, of Lurgan in the County of Armagh" and "Viscount Slim, of Yarralumla in the Capital Territory of Australia and of Bishopston in the City and County of Bristol". The first of these became extinct on the first holder's death.
The section "Abortive peerages" lists another hereditary peerage that was going to be conferred,(3) but whose planned recipient died before it was formally created.
The section "Australian life peers" lists four titles with Australian place names.
The section "Australian Baronets" lists four baronetcies that reference Australian places. These are the Rupertswood, Woollahra, Luddenham and Montefiore ones. Baronets are not peers.
Australia has a tradition of recommending people to be named knights and dames (who are also not peers). The practice ended in the 1980s but has just been reinstated.
(1) One of the early governors of New South Wales was Captain Bligh, who'd suffered a mutiny when commanding the Bounty. As Governor of New South Wales he experienced another one known as the Rum Rebellion.
(2) The third title listed in the section, "Baron Birdwood, of Anzac and Totnes in the County of Devon", refers, according to this Wikipedia talk page, to Anzac Cove, which is in Turkey.
(3) "Baron Forrest, of Bunbury in the Commonwealth of Australia and of Forrest in Fife".
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