AVENGERS. “And There Came Another Day…”

There are some interesting threads on this forum, already covering issues of Marvel’s early series – ‘re-reading’’ of the Avengers and Journey into Mystery/Thor and so on and there was quite a good issue by issue thread on the Invaders around too, until it caught up with the present.
What is more rarely discussed are the later periods when these series were in full flow and while perhaps less iconic still number among them some classics…

I therefore present to you an issue by issue critique/discussion forum for one of these mainstay Marvel titles.
Not beginning at the very debut – as others have that covered well – but (and I hope I don’t step on anyone’s creative toes here!) – I would like to pick up the Avengers title after a watershed/bookend issue provided an opportune point at which to begin …
Issue #100 featured all Avengers to that point together in one tale and everything that goes before it is pretty well easily contained by then. The next issue launches the title into its second century of publishing and its next phase of greatness…

What has gone before…?
And so there came a Day…

The formation of the team.
The Hulk leaving. Captain America’s return. The Original members giving way to Cap’s kooky Quartet.
Goliath and Wasp returning. Hercules coming and going. The creation of Ultron. The arrival of the Vision.
Yellow jacket Hawkeye as Goliath II and then back again. The Squadron Sinister/Supreme. The Kree-Skrull War and of course…the Lady Liberators!
(I’m sure you’ll have your own highlights!)

And so there came ANOTHER Day…

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Thanks both , for the 'second storey' definition - always learning!

I've been on tenterhooks waiting for your explanation of just why GSAvs1 was so important to you, Jeff - every comic sparks a story eh?

I await the text page transcript with bated breath and many thanks...

In case the term "two-bit" was also what you were questioning, it's North American terminology which currently (if used at all) means worthless.

The term, now seldom used, meant 25 cents. In the days of the British colonies in America there was a common usage of the Spanish eight-real silver coin, or the piece of eight. In some cases the coins, one name for which was the dollar, would be actually cut into eight pieces. So "two bits" was a quarter of a dollar. When the newly-independent United States established its own currency the silver dollar was made to be exactly like the Spanish eight-real coin. The dollar sign ($) owes its origin to the Spanish piece (or peso) of eight. The sign is still used for the peso also.

The Thing has called quite a few people "two bit". I think Monk Mayfair did as well: "You two-bit shyster!" (Of course the Thing was pretty clearly based on Monk.)

“Every comic sparks a story eh?”

Not every comic, but it just so happens that both of your current discussions center on comics that I associate with a specific time in my life when I was just discovering comic books, really, and those memories burn the brightest.

And thanks to Richard Willis for providing further details on the term “two bits.” I have known it referred to a quarter for as long as I can remember (“Shave and a haircut… two bits!”), but I never mar the association with “pieces of eight.” Great “cocktail party knowledge.”

One thing we didn’t touch on about this scene is the discrepancy that didn’t exist at the time of publication, but would in a few years, namely, that Captain America and the Whizzer didn’t recognize each other. When GSA #1 was published, the Whizzer had interacted only with the post-WWII version(s) of Captain America, but it was later revealed he fought side-by-side with Steve Rogers as a member of the wartime Invaders. Whoops. I guess it could be said that Bob Frank was so convinced that Steve Rogers was dead that his mind refused to accept that the Captain America standing in front of him was the man he knew. And Cap didn’t recognize Frank because his memory problems are legendary. Does that explanation qualify me for a No-Prize?

Back on the old board (in a post sadly now lost), I posted my theory of which Golden Age stories from Captain America Comics, All-Winners, All-Select, etc., featured (retroactively speaking, of course) the adventures of Steve Rogers, William Naslund and Jeff Mace. While I’m thinking of it, the title that took #20 from All-Winners was a try-out title called All-Teen. the numbering went like this…

All-Winners #19
All-Teen #20
All-Winners #21

GSA #1 FOOTNOTES: Before I move on to the transcription of Roy Thomas’ editorial, let me remind you of the great footnotes in this issue.

*Iron Man refers, of course, to the Mercurial super-baddie who appeared last in Defenders #13-14—Roy

*An oblique reference to captain America #153-156 natch.—R.T.

*As witnessed first in All-Winners #19 ‘way back in 1946—and represented in Fantasy Masterpieces #10 1967—The Compleat Roy

*See Marvel Super-Heroes #17-18—or the original tale in All-Winners #21 if you’re fabulously wealthy.**--Roy

**As for All-Winners #20—there was no such animal! But don’t worry—we’ll probably get around to telling you about the forgotten case of the A-W Squad any year now!—R.

*Everyone, at least, who read Young Men #24 in 1953, or Marvel Super-Heroes #20 in 1969.—Roy

*As most fully shown in Avengers #47.—Roy

*NOTE: I dunno why Rich stuck this pic in here—but it sure does take ya back, don’t it?—Roy

*In the immortal Avengers #16—Roy.

Man, they don’t write footnotes like that anymore! (Or at all, really.) The only opportunities he missed were to footnote the stories in which Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch’s powers started to fade and the first appearance of the High Evolutionary.

That footnote about why Rich Buckler stuck in a pic of the Avengers fighting the X-Man illustrates the “Marvel Method” in action.

The footnote about Avengers #47 reminds me I never answered the question you asked about Spider-Man #71 over on the other discussion. I think it was the best story featuring Quicksilver up to that point, but I don’t see it as a Quicksilver story per se. Quicksilver had always been a supporting character up until that time, but I see ASM #71 less as a Quicksilver solo story than I do as a continuation of the Quicksilver/Scarlet arc which was wending its way through various titles at the time.

Didn't Thomas also write the stories showing that Cap and the Whizzer should have remembered working together in the Invaders? And All Winners#20?

Yes, but later.

Wasn't' there something about Cap not getting all of his memories back due to being 'on ice' until the mid 200s of his own title..?

I'll give you that- Jeff - 71 best 'featuring' Puerto.

Best about him..? (Son of M - or am I the only one who ever read that?)

Shows Thomas was contradicting himself as he went along. "The real Captain America never met the Whizzer. Whoops! Yes he did!"

The GCD says All Winners#21 happened because they were continuing not from All Winners#19 but from the cancelled Young Allies#20. I remember reading that years ago in Overstreet.

Roy also said that the Cap from the All Winners Squad was the 1950s Cap, pre-insanity. Later it was the Patriot version which makes more sense.

Every few years they'll change the details of the golden age history of the Marvel Universe, just as the Silver Age history is changed so that it keeps creeping forward from the 1960s to, I suppose the early 2000's now or whatever it takes to keep Peter Parker and Johnny Storm from becoming middle-aged and Reed Richards from becoming a 90-something year old man, which he would be if he'd been working with the French underground circa 1943.

"Middle-aged"? If Johnny Storm was 16 back in 1961, he'd be 70 today!

“Wasn't' there something about Cap not getting all of his memories back due to being 'on ice' until the mid 200s of his own title..?”

Yes, that was established in #247, the first issue of the Stern/Byrne run.

“Best about him..? (Son of M - or am I the only one who ever read that?)”

I didn’t bother with that one, but I’ve been considering buying the recently released tpb of the Quicksilver solo series written by John Ostrander. (There’s a discussion of it somewhere on this fourum.)

“The GCD says All Winners#21 happened because they were continuing not from All Winners#19 but from the cancelled Young Allies#20. I remember reading that years ago in Overstreet.”

I’ve heard that, too. That’s a good guess (given the timing and the vagaries of comic book numbering), but All-Teen #20 makes more sense to me. There was a single issue of All-Teen, numbered “20” and released between All-Winners #19 and #21. Where did that single comic book get its numbering if not from All-Winners? (My source is Roy Thomas from the editorial of the 1990s reprint of All-Winners #19.)

“Roy also said that the Cap from the All Winners Squad was the 1950s Cap, pre-insanity.”

Not exactly. When Iron Man asks Captain America why the Whizzer didn’t think Cap was the real deal, Cap replies, “Can’t imagine… unless it has to do with the auxiliary Captain America… the one who took my place during the two decades I was in cold storage.” Captain America was just speculating.

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